Cruelty

[NativeAD]

Hi¡ I think one of the hardest things to get over in regards to my undiagnosed PD father is the consistent amount of cruel, painful comments and gestures over the years. I maintain low contact with my mum and siblings as they still are completely inside the fog and every time we try to talk about it it´s like hitting a wall, they completely refuse to see it and I find it too painful, I recently spoke with my mum over the phone twice within 1 week as I was changing jobs and it took me like 2 weeks to feel myself again and be emotionally ok again. Often I have felt like if the house was in flames, they were all inside, I tried to pulled them out and they hurt me while trying to convince me to stay inside with them, always avoiding to see any problem at all.

I don´t critise, compare and jugde other people all the time like he does (he does have some sociopathic traits) I think I killed that zombi long ago, unfortunately I still have a strong inner critic sometimes, a hurting inner child and I do critise, compare and jugde myself harshly at times. It is hard to kill that demon, that voice inside telling me I am not good enough, I don´t deserve success, I don´t deserve happiness or independence or wellbeing. I have done a fair amount a therapy over the last 2 years, slowly coming Out of the FOG, I have read and keep reading dozens of self help books, I am part of a couple of online support groups and I do yoga almost daily. My confidence in romantic relationships, work and relationships in general has improved significantly.

One of the things I find difficult to cope with are the memories of some of his cruel comments. Some days those memories come up like sharp objects, the times he has been cruel and physically abusive to our dogs and pets, all the times he has put me down, neglected my feelings or my mum´s or siblings. His abusive comments about my grandparents and aunts when we were grieving the death of my grandmother, so many difficult memories and stories, not many good ones looking back now, at 31, maybe only a few when I was a kid and we went fishing together. That´s pretty much it.

Very low contact has helped me hugely, as well as therapy, support groups, yoga, healthy routines, friends, healing takes time and in order to happen painful memories and events resurface and come up so that I can see them clearly, identify the feelings and emotions and accept them. So much anger inside some days¡ I am learning to love and accept myself, my shortcomings and other people´s. Lockdown has given me so much time to grieve the relationship that I will never have with him, see all his cruel actions, comments, emotionally abusive behaviours to my mum and us while trying to isolate us from our extended family and friends. I am learning so much about communication in relationships and the fearful avoidant tendencies I had, it´s been quite a journey, hopefully my siblings and mother will come Out of the FOG one day, they have been isolating themselves from the world way too long.

I am new to the forum, good evening everyone¡

[Hilltop]

Hi Native, sounds like you have already made so much progress which is great.

I am NC now with my parents and one of the reasons is the amount of time it would take me to feel emotionally ok again after a visit.  I would be so angry after a visit and had a lot of trouble letting it go. By the time I was due to go see them again I had barely recovered and then it would happen all over again.  I ended up emotionally fatigued by it all.

I have only been NC for a few months and feel better about that but it has brought up a lot of other anger about the whole situation.  Like you the memories are all flooding back, things I had just stuffed away and not thought about for years are resurfacing and whilst that's good, ugh, it's a painful place to be, I just feel so angry and disappointed.  My inner critic is having a great time at the moment and I am trying to shut that down.

It is great having a place like this, where others can come and say I hear you and understand because they have been there.  It does make it so much easier.

[NativeAD]

Thanks a lot for your message Hilltop, it is reassuring to read that someone understands my emotions and how challenging difficult family relationships can be, I know you got your fair share too. It can be incredibly painful and confusing, my first therapist did not see the problem, I kept saying I felt emotionally abused but he kept saying we just had a "communication problem", it felt so invalidating , I have been clearly and maturely communicating for years and the the relationship with my father just kept getting worse.

I feel so identified with the recovery time you mention after being in touch with them, it does really take time to process all the new comments, behaviours, gaslighting, hopes, expectations...it gets too much year after year, and yes, I have been called selfish by my mum for choosing myself.

She´s been a very good mum over the years, loving and helpful but my father has been slowly breaking her down and moulding her too, isolating her from her family and friends, doing the Silent Treatment at times and threatening about leaving her. She will even defend him and explain that he is just like a small child (at 60). She is an anxious person with deep fear of abandonment and will put up with anything to keep the family together, even if that means hiding all issues under the carpet, she suffers from depression, panic attacks and recently  told me she had thought about suicide.

She often lies about important issues too and will change facts so that stories fit, when we talk I never know what is actually true and what is one of her modifications to manipulate or achieve something, she says she goes to therapy often but that´s probably another lie, I had to block her on my phone because she does not respect any boundaries and has become an enabler of the abuse, she will also text me way too many times every day, like if she was trying to get my full attention so that I cannot live my life.

I got 2 younger siblings (they still live with my parents) and I think I was the golden child or at least the "role model" for a while, the great student, the responsible one. I had a great relationship with my grandparents (mum´s side), felt really close to them and loved. I became fully independent at 21 with a career, a good, stable job and moved abroad, I am now 31 and my grandparents died a few years ago.

I think two facts are key to understand the family dynamic, the death of my grandparents and me becoming successful in the last 2 years while fulfilling my childhood dream. With my grandparents dead my father probably feels he can be much more abusive and controlling as my mum doesn´t have anyone else to talk to now,  I don´t live with them any longer so my younger brother speaks with entitlement about family decisions, maybe trying to become or be the "adult responsible one", my sister is my father´s flying monkey, completely on his side even though he mocks her boyfriend chronically in disrespectful ways. For years, every time I have tried to talk about the abuse or the latest event, my mum becomes very anxious or very avoidant, my brother becomes very aggressive to the point of wanting to punch me and my sister will mention that I am an awful person and will express how poorly she thinks of me.

In 2018 I was finishing my second degree and decided that it might be a good idea to go back to my parent´s home (had to start therapy shorty after ) to stop working and focus on studying for a few months. My mum helped me to get the loan to finish it and we all agreed that I would give them the money back as soon as I could. Borrowing money from them to finish my studies has been incredibly challenging though, my parents have often used it to manipulate me or scare me, for years my mum would change her opinion about funding almost on a weekly basis depending on her mood, which created me loads of anxiety and uncertainty. My siblings are incredibly upset about my mum helping me to finish my degree, and they seem to have become more upset after I got a great job as soon as I finished.

My mum hates and doesn´t speak to my father´s family, she has 3 siblings, there was a major dispute over inheritance when my grandparents died, there was abuse and they are all upset between each other too. My father hates and doesn´t speak to my mum´s family either.

Sometimes I feel my parents only had us to have someone who looks after them when they get old (they are just 60 and no health issues), like if my hole life should be focused on them, telling them constantly how grateful I am for everything they have done for me or for us. They often speak like if they had done us a massive favour simply by being our parents and looking after us when we were kids. I tell them it was their responsibility to look after their kids, not a choice or a favour to be paid back, like they often describe it. They keep talking about money and how they helped me economically when I needed it, that´s all that matters to them. Years of abuse, gaslighitng, manipulation, insults...but we give you money if you ask for it so we must be the best parents in the world¡

I have talked a lot about my mum but she has been the only one who has been always there for me, who has helped me in so many ways, has listened to me and understood me the most. My father at his best has been an incredibly distant, passive aggressive figure, at his worst has been manipulative, abusive, neglectuful, and keeps gaslighting me every chance he gets.

I find my Inner Child becomes really angry and agitated specially when my sleep patterns become irregular. Some days emotional pain will cause me (specially during lockdown and loads of time off) to sleep way too much to the point of waking up too late. Then I will have problems falling asleep at night, and the hole pattern will become worse. Regular sleep patterns will keep my Inner Child/worst critic much more calm and way happier.

I don´t do drugs, don´t drink alcohol and do loads of yoga, I think the only way to solve this pain is to go through it, there are no alternate ways, numbing it will only postpone it. It´s interesting to observe myself talking to different therepists, support groups, always talking about the same events, same family members, same feelings, but I do feel it is the only way out, or at least the healthiest.

Open up¡ Speak up¡

[BettyGray]

Welcome, NativeAD!

Cruelty, indeed. Intentional cruelty, at that. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I think compassionate, empathetic people cannot process that other people can think or behave this way, without the burden of shame,!much less say and act upon them. To a child. So we put energy into trying to make sense of it, but ultimately there is no understanding or changing someone else's damage.

The backlash on abuse victims is immeasurable. The mental scars don't heal. Or if they do, it's after a lot of work that we have to undertake on our own. Every time our painful experiences are invalidated it makes things worse for us. Plus, watching the abuse happen to other family members and not being able to help them, make them see the abuse, much less do anything to help themselves. At some point they're so beaten down and brainwashed they just fall in line. Tragic.

It does sound like you are on a path to peace. There is now room for reflection upon the situation in which you have chosen to no longer participate. Even though at times you may not feel you are making progress, from where I stand, you most definitely are. Congratulations! That progress and strength will be the foundation for dealing with future pain.

There is no guarantee your mom and sister will find a way Out of the FOG. Be prepared to make peace with that as well. I hoped for 20 years that my siblings would wake up to my parents' PD abuse and have a eureka moment. I kept asking myself why they couldn't see it. Instead, they got mired more deeply in the dysfunction. Their faces aged quickly and their bitterness grew. And yet they couldn't tear themselves away. I had perspective (therapy and moving far away), they didn't. The train wreck proceeded in slow motion, and I looked on, powerless to alert them to the coming catastrophe.

I used to wonder why some people got to mid-life and seemed to just give up. Why did try stop caring about- their future, their marriage, their appearance, hope that heir lives would improve. Why did they accept their station in life as immobile, and why didn't they want to grow as people. Now I understand. Besides the burdens of everyday life, people grow cynical because it's easy. Some, like our FOGged family members, have on blinders, of which they have no  awareness. Abusers want victims to feel hopeless. So it's easier to not fight back.

We choose the other path, most of the time all by ourselves. That's the cruelty of the passive parent/sibling - they know darn well what is and has happened. They choose to betray us any way. To me, that was devastating.  They just didn't care.

Be well, visit the forums often, and forge ahead on your healing journey.

[Hepatica]

I'm sorry. The worst thing is when the petty, abusive parent's voice gets into our heads. And even harder is when you begin to wake up to it and the rest of family doubles down on denial and lashes out at the person who is finally speaking truth.

I would bet that all of us here have experienced this and I wish I had an answer to make all the pain go away. There's no quick fix really, but you're on the right track by seeking support and I hope you find a therapist who has training in pathology and NPD disorders. It does sound like your father is self-focussed and lacking in empathy, which can indicate a personality disorder.

The only thing that I've learned is that trying to make the family come around to my way of thinking never ever works. If they haven't sought counselling and read literature that's led them to wake up, then they will stay asleep and they don't want to wake up. And if there is a pattern of lacking in empathy, then it becomes dangerous to try to wake them, by telling them what you see, even when you are absolutely right about things.

It's time to heal you. And yes, there is pain involved due to the hundreds of incidences of loss. When ever you heard your father lash out and say cruel things, that was a loss of safety for you.

I wish it was a quick fix, but good for you for realizing now. There are so many tools to heal. I follow Kristen Neff and do mindfulness meditation and self-compassion work. That really has helped me tackle the negative voice of my uNPD mother, who was very cruel growing up. Her voice became my inner critic and I've made huge strides through self-compassion work in deleting her voice from my head.

Thank you for sharing your story and don't be afraid to come here and vent as needed. Good luck with your healing journey.

[NativeAD]

**TRIGGER SEXUAL ABUSE**

Thanks a lot for your messages, it´s been really helpful, I think I need to work on self compassion to have a calmer, happier inner child, the inner critic can be quite persistent at times.

I struggle with the fact that none of them (parents nor siblings) have ever apologised. My brother is 26, we have always had a close relationship but in the last few years, with my father´s abuse he has been pretty much on his side, rejecting and dismissing my feelings, opinion and points of view. He threatened me about punching me in the face and became really aggressive the morning we talked about this topic and has never apologised. My younger sister (24) has always kept me at an arm´s length, never has been too keen to have a relationship with me or discuss any issues or just life. I have been living abroad for the last 10 years, I have been visiting them every few months for years (they have visited me only once), and in the last few years she often just came to say hi, stay a few minutes  and quickly go back to her boyfriend´s house, I would not see her again until next visit. She was openly abusive and triangulated a lot with my father. In the last few years I started to dread family dinners because my father and her would triangulate and be emotionally abusive to me.

My mother did apologised once (only by EMAIL, never in person) when I started going to therapy, she was also in therapy or at least talking to someone and they explained her how painful the situation must have been for me. But that apology did not last and weeks later she came back to the old stories of justifying my father´s abuse (there is always a reason, a reason for every single situation of him emotionally abusing me according to her), and she returned to blaming me for everything, calling selfish and ungrateful.

Talking directly to my father has become simply too painful, he has been incredibly dismissive towards my feelings consistently for way too many years, always justifying it saying that I was too sensitive or they were only jokes. One day he was driving the car, I was walking home, he saw me and started driving the car by my side, mocking me. He openly humiliated me in front of other people when I was a teenager. He has been belittling all my achievements since I was a teenager. So many situations over the years hard to digest.

He hates my mum´s family, for my 18th birthday they wanted to do a big surprise birthday party including my extended family but he refused to do it, I learnt that only months later, I would have really loved it. Fights while on holiday. Going to a restaurant for dinner before I went back abroad and him becoming upset because apparently I was eating too much and they would have to pay for it. I remember I was taking a nap one afternoon a few years ago, I had an erection while sleeping, the TV remote control was next to my penis and when he went to take the remote he also touched it, keeping the hand there, touching me for a few instants until I woke up, it was such an awful feeling, I still remember it often when I become anxious or triggered.

My father also lied and made up a terrible story when my grandfather (mum´s side) was dying of cancer, he said my grandfather had insinuated sexually to her sister (my aunt) when they were in his car on their own once decades ago. I recenly discovered it was a lie while speaking with my aunt about his abuse, she said it was just a comment  my grandparents made about my father´s awkward attitude and since then he hated them). I loved and had such a close relationship with my grandfather, it was such an awful gesture that he made up (not just brought up), such an awful lie in that difficult moment in the middle of the grieving process.

Thanks for listening.

[NativeAD]

One more fact worth mentioning is the deep silent fear I 've been developing about sleeping at my parent' s house.

My father has never been physically abusive to any of us. Ever. Never touched us. But he is such hateful, ignorant, repressed, lonely, isolated person that I fear that one day he will simply snap and hurt me or us, he is a hunter so has weapons and is never concerned about hurting animals or pets . My mum also mentioned during one of her panic attacks that she felt incredibly scared but wasn't specific about what, not sure if she is scared of him too.

I feel afraid when I look into my father's eyes because there is no depth, no light or life in them, it's an incredibly opaque look which only lights up when seeing somebody suffer or being mocked.

This deep fear to being hurt by him while asleep has slowly developed slowly for a few years now and it's one more reasons to visit less. My biggest regret is that I am still in touch with many childhood friends and if I want to see them have to stay at my parents house every time, ortherwise would have to book a hotel or stay at somebody's home.

[Hepatica]

NativeAD,

Thank you for have the courage to share and I'm sorry because all of what you have experienced and explained is very painful. It's ok to trust your feelings about your father. That's what our feelings are for. If you don't feel safe with him, or at his house, then you don't have to go. You don't have to explain this to anyone. And I know this is a loss. But keeping yourself safe is so important.

I feel very uncomfortable about going to my parents house and finally last year I gave myself permission not to go. My father is petty and subtly abusive and over the years developed a hoarding problem which upsets me so much because it puts my mother in danger. Every time I'd go, out of duty, I'd feel spun out afterward and sad. So I stopped going. This forum has helped bolster me so that I feel absolutely fine and certain that my decision is okay and right for me. I don't explain this to anyone I don't feel I can trust. Lots of people who are in the FOG or havent' grown up with abuse can make judgemental comments that get into my own head, about the importance of caring for parents. But they don't know what we've been through, so I no longer want their judgement to get into my, still quite fragile, sense of self worth.

What I am beginning to understand is that we, as survivors of abuse, have a lot of loss to grieve, and when we walk away from toxicity it feels like more loss. But what we come to realize is that we also gain. We gain the most important thing which is the peace of mind and body, to finally truly begin healing.

There is hope. Always trust your feelings. If you don't trust your father, then that is the truth for you. And don't spend time trying to save your mother or siblings. They will come around (or not) of their own accord, if you are fortunate. Many of us have loss there as well. It is not fair and it hurts, but staying within the toxic framework hurts far worse over time.

[NativeAD]

Thanks a lot Hepatica for being so reassuring, as you say not being stuck in trying to save them is key for my recovery. An  important thing I learned from my first therapist is the importance of communication, for many years I was told off by my father for setting boundaries and communicating clearly, he just wanted me deep in the fog, be complaint and unsuccessful.

It has been very important for me to work heavily on my communication skills and discover my boundaries, I did not know they existed or that I could have them, there is loads of codependency and enmeshment in my FOO and it is very hard to get rid of it or even see it. For many years this has caused huge difficulties on my romantic relationships, I am 31 and never had long, stable, serious relationships, even though I have sought them since I was 11. I have dated a fair amount, (not much casual sex as I don´t find it enjoyable, I need emotional intimacy), but more in the sense of  seeing the same person consistently for several months but thats pretty much it. I´ve fallen in love many times with girls who were emotionally unavailable to me, and I´ve rejected many of the girls who were indeed available. I rejected them because I did not develop the feelings and felt the relationship would kind of "eat me", my boundaries or independence would not be respected and I would be hurt because I would not know what or how to communicate. I think I am now finally slowly coming Out of the FOG. I love dating, I have got many long stable friendships.

My father is a very lonely/independent person, is self empleyed, works on his own as a builder and always complains about everybody if he had to work with somebody else. He hasn´t got any friends and only has a few close relationships with her mum, sibling and uncles. Quite a similar story with my mother, sister and brother, extremely restricted social life and reluctancy to work with other people. There is nothing wrong with this, it´s just that I think it´s a learnt behaviour from him so that he can have his supply and full attention, affecting their future, opportunities and happiness negatively.

Have a lovely weekend everyone 

[NativeAD]

I have been feeling sad over the last few days. I haven't visited my parents home in almost a year, I would like to but at the same time I feel always abused and triggered when I go, like if I had to build huge emotional walls to avoid being hurt.
My younger siblings and mother always disregard and ignore my feelings completely, my father acts like if everything was perfectly ok until he decides to be abusive again, judge me or insult me. It gets so painful. I have not talked to my sister in almost a year too, she triangulates with my father and is painful. Last time I spoke to my mum was 4 months ago and she kept being abusive.

During the Covid pandemic I needed a bit of economic help from them as I live abroad, lost my job and took me 2 months to start making money again. They did not want me to be at home with them. My mum persistently made fun of me because I was struggling economically, giving me very little money everytime, making me incredibly anxious. She enjoyed my vulnerability, my weakness, she laughed at me because it was a very difficult period during lockdown. Last time I visited her in September she said she had suicide thoughts, suffers from depression and panic attacks yet many other times they said they are perfectly happy.

My brother texted me a few weeks ago about a sport we follow, it was casual and he told me again to call my mum and sister, which hurt me because he has never acknowledged any of my feelings. I blocked my father, mum and sister's phone numbers long ago as it was too chaotic and toxic.

How do you cope with the sadness phase? When the abuse was more recent 3 years ago I felt so much anger because they crossed all my boundaries. Realizing that one is being abused is such a paralysing feeling. After time, loads of no contact, time with friends, yoga, therapy, self help books and support from good friends and family members a new feeling comes up. Sadness. The memories from those times when there were still boundaries in the family, respect, tolerance, the times when we were yohnger or kids and family was stable and normal. The fantasy that those relatively good relations would last forever.

How do you deal with the sadness and loss after abuse? Any thoughts?

[blacksheep7]

Hi Native,

I am nc with FOO for 4 years now.  Like yourself, my siblings are still in the fog and do not understand my nc.  I received a text from gc, the eldest asking why I was shutting everyone off.   Actually, they shut me off when I wrote emails to each sibling explaining my reasons.  They either didn't reply or as one said, I had issues with M. It was covert, ignorning M who took over  NF ways when  died.  I felt sorry for her and took full charge to take care of her.  She wanted me to be her friend which I did not because I felt the enmeshment coming.  She became controling with emotional blackmail and always undermining me filled with Guilt. No empathy, we were expected to always be happy and not complain. She always was passive aggresive. I told my sibs....wtf, the past is back???  My M still defends NF.

As for the sadness, it is greiving the family we would have liked to have.  I still have bouts now and then but when I think back of the reasons I left that family, the way M made me feel and still see the dysfunction, I do not miss that dynamic.  Once I see, I can not unsee

We have to learn to love and validate ourselves and not let our family define us or make us feel better.  I know that it is easier said than done.  It sometimes takes years.  I'm still struggling with anxiety.

I see that you have come a long way and did hard work.  Look at what you've accomplished so far and congratulate yourself.  Good for you 

[NativeAD]

Thanks everyone for the replies, it really helps a lot.

Recently I have been going through a fair share of grief and rumination. I recently bought the book "On grief and grieving by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross", I think it is fantastic and I am learning so much. 2 of my grandparents died back in 2012 and 2016, it's a long time but at the same time it feels like yesterday. We were really close, they were so smart, social, loving, caring and successful in so many ways, I felt so well understood by them and I still miss them a lot sometimes, the lack of support and connection with my parents makes it worse. It also hurts me and angers me to remember how hard my parents were with them, even when death was so close. It breaks my heart.

My partner of 2 years knows everything about my family of origin and has always been supportive. I also explained my situation to my extended family (aunt, uncle) and they were supportive too, after all they themselves had issues with my parents too. Holiday such as Easter or Christmas have been difficult periods for me, ruminating a lot about past fights with parents and siblings and also a lot of grieving. My father recently got reported to the police by one of their neighbours in our village, he is a hunter, has many hunting dogs and they are noisy at night and are kept improperly too close to the other houses. He lacks empathy so neighbours and full families unable to sleep at night wasn't and problem for him for years 

I have been grieving a lot because I never thought my relationship with them would become so bad and toxic. All the rest of my family and childhood friends still live in their city, I live abroad so its hard to miss friends and relatives. At the same time I am avoiding spending time at my parent's home at all costs because it always hurts. I know I could book a hotel room if I am visiting the city or stay with a friend but at the same time I feel shame about it as I dont want to interfere with my friend's lives just because of my parents.

Easter has been hard. I see on the whatsapp group all the activities my childhood friends are doing, yet it is very painful to go to their city and expose myself to abuse and gaslighting.

I am on Very Low Contact with them but it is still very painful everytime, only visit/talk twice a year now. Nothing has changed, always facing same arguments, same dysfunction. I am also repaying them the loan from my studies, I dont want to owe them anything because they will use it as a tool to hurt me otherwise.

[PunkCroc]

It is so difficult to get cruel words from someone who is supposed to love and care for you out of your head. I used to watch Dr. Phil (not anymore, I did in my very early 20's) and though he's kinda cringy now, he did say a few things that make a lot of sense. One of which was "It takes 1,000 "good jobs," "I'm proud of yous." and "Go get 'ems" to make up for one "You are not good enough."

It's true. It takes a lot of work to heal from your own father telling you cruel criticisms and abusive words. It's hard to heal from anyone who is supposed to love you throwing cruel words toward you. I still remember some of the most painful things my abusive ex said to me, and it's very hard to remember anything nice he said to me.

How much do you still owe them? Do you think you will cut them off after it's paid off?

[NativeAD]

Thanks a lot for your message PunkCroc.

I still have to pay the student loan fees for a couple of years, they helped me when I couldn't pay them as a newly qualified professional. After that I suppose I will maintain very low contact a few times a year. I've noticed over the years how my mum's mood was fully dependant on their available money, ego and perceived social status.

When they were making good money 15-20 years ago they speak poorly of everyone but at least I felt more loved and respected by them. But because of their loss of economic and professional status in the last 10 years, immaturity, ego, racism and selfishness, they made loads of poor decisions which put them in the uncertain place they are today.

I have achieved a level of professional success after more than 10 years of really hard work that they  could never achieve, and I think that made me the scapegoat. Envy is too bad sometimes, my mum confessed it once while crying.

My mum economically helped me to achieve it while at the same time my father used every mind game and abuse to destroy me. Life circumstances change all the time so it's hard to know where we will be 10 or 20 years down the line.

[NativeAD]

Hi everyone

Last few days have been a bit rougher than usual. I have had some time off work + the cold weather and lack of sunlight + a mild cold and runny nose for  the last few days. With the lack of activity my sleeping habits got worse and I am paying for it, I haven't felt at my best recently and some painful memories and feelings came back.

Luckily I have been here before and I have learnt that these periods are 'wake up calls' where I need to practice good self care and pay more attention to my daily routines. I have been on Very Low Contact with my family of Origin now for years, I visit them around twice a year and I find that if my partner comes with me those few days their behavious is more acceptable and normal. It is when I visit them alone that I feel more triggered and vulnerable. Deciding whether to visit them for Christmas feels painful and I might decide to just visit my in-laws this year.

I have been thinking a lot about the relationship with my father recently, how the only REALLY  few good memories I have with him are from when I was around 10 years old. There was always that empty space and coldness between us from the time I become a teenager until now, in my 30's. I always felt that disconnection from him, his lack of interest. I do have loads of memories where I actually enjoy being with my mum and she enjoys being a mum. Times when she would take us shopping, or eating out, or see grandparents or whatever, where there would be good chemistry and enjoyment. That never existed with my father. Interestingly enough, I do recognize those moments when my father and siblings  are talking to each other and seem to actually enjoy it.

Those moments with me, of him being a real 'dad', stopped by the time I was 10 or 12. Whenever he had to drive me to school, or the sport I practised, see family...I always and only remember that tension and space between us. I grew up with an emotionally neglectful father, always absent,  physically present, but his mind always seemed to be somewhere else. He always looked like he couldn't wait to be somewhere else.

I feel I was the 'truth teller' in the family, I would call out dysfunctional, abusive behaviour, by the time I was 13 or 14 my parents called me the 'judge'. I felt I had to speak up because he was systematically trying to destroy every part of who I was. Not just me personally, but every other person that I  valued as part of my life. Every-single-aspect of my life was targeted. The way I ate, talked, sat, walked, look. My hobbies, my career, my jobs, my friends, my extended family, grandparentes, uncles, aunts, pets. Every part of my life had to be destroyed. I felt so unsafe around such cruelty, our values, behaviours, hobbies, personality were always so different, I just could not be myself

2 decades later, it is more clear to me that my mum and siblings decided to accept his dysfunction, fully accept his 'imperfections', as they call it. I am sure they also received the same type of abuse in some parts of their lives that he considered 'unacceptable', such as a relationship with other family members or career success. I moved out of their house early in my 20's and became independent. Those friendships that I still have, those relationships with my extended family members, these are the ROCKS that saved me, that gave me hope, that showed me a real example of friendship, of love and self esteem.

Last night I had an interesting thought while reading other cases in this forum. I was being quite hard on myself, I was thinking that rejecting my family of origin and their abuse would put me in a position of ' relationship scarcity', a vulnerable and lonely position. But then I had the realisation that I did not make that decision at all. They did. I have been setting my boundaries for years, and I explained them clearly and maturely. I want to be healthy, to work, to live, to enjoy Christmas eve with loads of relatives around. They chose to live in scarcity, loneliness, failure, depression, anxiety. That's what my father wanted, that's exactly what they got.

Thanks everyone , I just needed to lay down some of my thoughts and feelings.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Last night I had an interesting thought while reading other cases in this forum. I was being quite hard on myself, I was thinking that rejecting my family of origin and their abuse would put me in a position of ' relationship scarcity', a vulnerable and lonely position. But then I had the realisation that I did not make that decision at all. They did. I have been setting my boundaries for years, and I explained them clearly and maturely. I want to be healthy, to work, to live, to enjoy Christmas eve with loads of relatives around. They chose to live in scarcity, loneliness, failure, depression, anxiety. That's what my father wanted, that's exactly what they got.

This is the truth for my FOO as well. I've been fully NC with them for six years now. I've often reflected that getting rid of all the drama, put-downs, living life centered around managing his anger, and jumping through endless hoops  for crumbs of attention left room for... joy! Definitely there is grief to be gone through, and the holidays can flare that up for sure, but grief will quiet down. And grief is healing pain. Through grief can be peace. I certainly never felt peaceful around my FOO! I wish you all the best this Christmas.

[olivegirl]

I have been frightened of my very authoritarian ASPD father for as long as I remember. 

He has a very explosive temper. 

He is very condescending and arrogant.

He is very very mean.

He enjoys humiliating me, glaring at me. 

He talks very poorly of me behind his back.

He would threaten suicide as well as abandonment when I was young.

He is extremely paranoid. 

Somehow I realized from a very young age how inept, extremely insecure and afraid my father is.

He is unable to stay employed, thus constantly mired with financial problems.

It was apparent to me in my teens that he was plotting to sabotage me so that I would be under his complete control.

He actually had the audacity to play the waif and scream: "Who is gonna be responsible for me?"

He demanded that I let him move in with me, that I focus on caretaking him and paying off his debts.

Then he gave me a duper's delight smug smirk and looked at me with an incredible combination of superiority and contempt.

He glared at me with so much intense hate that for the first time I was scared for my life.

I felt trapped, I felt suffocated.  I felt so much hate that I started to shake. 

I just knew I had to get him out of my house so I did what I had learned to do for survival:  I fawned over him for my personal safety.

I physically could not handle being alone with him so I insisted that he take an Uber to the airport (I wisely moved 1k miles away from my PD parents). 

I know I will never allow myself to be alone in a room with that man again. 

My father is a parasite and I will no longer be the host.

[NativeAD]

Thank you so much for your replies Call me Cordelia and olivegirl, I see we were all facing similar types of behaviour and attitudes.

It always shocked me the amount of antisocial behaviour that I suffered at home. My father never had a drinking problem or a drugs problem, in that sense both of my parents did a fantastic job in teaching us to lead healthy lives. But the antisocial behaviour came in many other different ways. Always badmouthing other people close to us such as grandparents, uncles, best friends, neighbours...it was endless and relentless, it felt so toxic and demeaning. His big efforts to isolate us from the rest of the world, constant criticism, incapacity to take responsibility, pet cruelty, sadistic attitudes, complete disregard for our neighbour's right to have a quiet environment and be able to sleep at night for years, complete lack of empathy and remorse, complete disregard for other people's feelings... .


I remember it was around 20 years ago, when I was around 15 years old that my mum started to complain to us, her kids, that he was giving up responsibility. He was self employed and my mum started to feel worried and anxious because he was not keen to work hard and make enough money anymore, she said he was just doing the bare minimum to pay bills in a period when it was critical for her to be able to afford our future university fees. That's when she decided to take over and became the main breadwinner, inherited my grandma's business and we all moved to the city. For around 10 years my father stopped working and instead helped out at home (even though we had a cleaning lady at home who also cooked so he did not do that much at home I guess, mostly sit in the sofa and watchTV), mostly he drove us to/from school daily and become the handyman at home.

I was punished, isolated and bullied for not accepting his antisocial behaviour but my mum and siblings learned to tolerate it and absorved it completely as 'normal'. It drove me nuts, it drove me crazy, it was all so consistently unhealthy.