How to Manage With Opposing Approaches?

[HippoDisco]

My MIL is the uNPD. As per my previous post she has trampled on boundaries, invaded our privacy, shown 0 respect for us as adults and is a serial user of triangulation and Munchausen syndrome for her own validation, attention and control. She's a people collector, bunny boiler with contact, everything we own she owns, "your babies are my babies", "our wedding" ... all that good stuff.

Having experienced more overt narc abuse from my own mother, I only ever found peace once we were NC (6/7 years now - my life started when she moved abroad. Whhoopp!). DH is slowly seeing the issues but here's how we differ:

DH: We can still have a normal level of exposure to her and things will be OK if boundaries are enforced.
Me: VLC or NC is ideal for our mental health. She can't self-regulate and the more we give, the more she will take. Any boundaries will repeatedly be tested/broken sneakily.

DH: She's, 'not as bad' as your mother.
Me: She is; it's a covert vs overt issue, not a better or worse.

Does anyone have any advice on how to reach a middle ground? I don't want DH to feel I'm trying to isolate him from his parents, but I've looked the Devil in the eyes, so to speak.

As a side note, is it common for victims of narcissistic abuse to keep coming into contact with similar people? DH says I can read too much into things; I personally think we're magnets for the lunatics.

[DesertRose]

I feel for you. My family of origin was dysfunctional (my dad has many PD traits) and my husband's family of origin is also dysfunctional. His mom definitely has NPD traits, SIL (whom I've written about) has covert NPD traits.

I was determined to "become as healthy as possible" before I got married because my dad had a rage problem. I did not know or understand nearly as much as I do now - and I married someone from a very dysfunctional family and a very rigid family system in some ways worse than mine! If DH had been able to set boundaries with his family better from day 1 it would have been easier. I also tolerated way too much bad treatment from them because - as you probably guessed - it's what I was used to and I didn't treat myself with enough dignity and respect to walk away or rock the boat in some way because I felt too emotionally needy and wanted the relationships to work. It's hard to learn to love yourself enough to not tolerate bad treatment from people who you've also come to love .... but it's best for everyone.

In my case, like yours, DH doesn't see the seriousness of his MIL and SIL behaviours as much as I do and it has taken several years (at least 5?) of pointing the behaviours out for us to be more on the same page. DH was much more ready to stand up to the more obvious boundary infringements of his mum (and consequently we have a better relationship with her - much better - because she has come to respect the boundaries more over time although she is still inappropriate here and there). 

Meanwhile, SIL is super sneaky,  passive aggressive, and covert. She speaks in a soft voice and says the most cruel things with a big smile. She will spend time trying to provoke her target while making it look like an accident. And as I mentioned in prior posts DH was always ready to "give her the benefit of the doubt".

One book that helped me explain things better to DH is "In Sheep's Clothing" by George Simon. He goes into detail about the tactics of sneaky and manipulative people and helps spell it out clearly. Another helpful book has been "The Narcissist's Playbook" by Dana Morningstar. It is excellent - again - for spelling out the manipulative techniques. If you have something like that where you can pinpoint manipulation as it's happening so it doesn't like like it's "just you" seeing it everywhere (Eg, "being overly sensitive" as the Ns love to say!) then it really helps.

[all4peace]

I'm wondering if it would be more helpful to focus on what you DO want in your life and marriage, instead of comparing parents and their level of difficulty. Comparison tends to lead to conflict, and it's really difficult to quantify someone's level of being difficult.

I'm thinking a venn-diagram kind of conversation between you and your husband might help you find ground that you can agree on, level of contact you can both live with, and then work to build trust and teamwork skills in that space. Over some time, maybe revisit the conversation to see if you want to stay in that space or change the way you do relationship with his family. Just one idea.

[Hilltop]

I agree with All4peace.  Don't compare families. There may be similarities however being DH's FOO it makes it a little harder.  I think you need to work out how much contact you each want.  It doesn't matter if its covert vs overt, its the behaviour and how you respond to that, that you and DH need to agree on.

Which boundaries do you need to enforce?  Put a plan in place and DH enforces them, it is his parents and he is willing to do this.  I will say its great that he recognises a problem and is willing to handle it.  With his support there is probably little your MIL can do.

So start with level of contact, that may differ between you.  Then behaviours what do you need to stop.  Then DH needs to stop the behaviour when its happening, ie if she is rude you both agree beforehand that you speak up once and if it happens again you are prepared to leave.  Or if she comes over unannounced DH tells her that she needs to ring to see if its ok first.  If she has too many opinions then you both stop that information getting to her and only tell her things once you've decided etc.

I think if you have dealt with a NMom then perhaps your tolerance may be lower and that is ok, perhaps you will need less contact.  You don't need to have the same contact as your DH if you aren't comfortable. He can see his parents more if he is able to tolerate them.

[Cat of the Canals]

I'll third that. Comparing his mother and your mother is counterproductive and really beside the point. Choosing boundaries and how they'll be enforced is where you should focus.

And you're probably right that she will trample the boundaries - overtly or sneakily. We specifically asked my MIL to not come to our house unannounced. So she'd go to BIL's house instead (also unannounced) and then call us to say, "I'm in town!"  My husband would end up feeling guilty leaving his brother to suffer her visit alone and so he'd end up allowing them to come over. If it were me, I would have told her to kick rocks, but we've always sort of had a "your family, your responsibility" agreement. So I told him that if he was willing to tolerate it, that was fine, but I was no longer making time for someone who didn't respect my boundaries. Whenever she invited herself over or showed up without prior arrangements, I'd find something else to do in a separate part of the house.

I don't know if a solution like that would work for you, but it saved me from getting angry at him for allowing her to trample the boundary we'd agreed on. If HE wanted to allow it, that was his choice. I would not.