DH: Smear Campaigned, then Hoovered?!

[DistanceNotDefense]

My jaw can't drop any lower. I can tell my DH is "fogged" by my FOO and he struggles with accepting less than respectful treatment from friends or his own FOO, so blowing off steam with him over this is pointless....he still just feels guilty and like he did something wrong to deserve all this. He can't seem to get mad or outraged with me...so I'm just reaching out for commiseration and validation.

I'm NC with all FOO almost 8 months. Last night my M apparently tried to hoover my DH, just sent him a video by message of something he might be interested in, like it was casual and everything was "cool." He felt confused, didn't know what to do or how to feel, and asked me what to do and I told him not to respond or watch the video.

She really doesn't feel bad or feel any shame at all.

I couldn't believe it. I still can't believe it, how out of touch, unapologetic, and brazenly obtuse the woman who brought me into the world really is when she's given no choice but to apologize and make better for how she has badly hurt my DH and I if she is to ever have a relationship with us again....and when apologizing, respecting us, making right, and stopping enabling PD sib is all she would have to do in order for me to build trust again. That's it. But rug-sweeping is easier????

How is this love? It is not.

DH has been at the center of a smear campaign engineered by older sibling (uNPD, malignant, potentially uASPD) that's gone on for over a year. It's managed to suck in my M, other sib, and I suspect extended FOO and their friends with claims that he's been physically beating me and controlling everything I do, something they all somehow find believable and a better explanation than me just wanting boundaries and a successful life/career that doesn't revolve around them.

It was confirmed to me that my M entertained this notion, enabled the smear, didn't defend him, didn't defend me, but lied to me when confronted, trying to claim this was never talked about, stood strong by my PD sibling, said PD sibling would never say this and she loves me. It was outrageous; she basically gaslit me and showed that everything abusive and untruthful PD sib will ever do will be defended, even if it brings me agony.

She basically said she does not care about me and that she also thinks I'm a liar. And now this...she has the GALL to just casually message the man she is helping put all the blame on, the man she is trying to rip away from me through either subtle control or just wanting to appease the scary appetites of my PD sibling, or to just indulge in gossip...I can't tell which, or maybe it is all of them. What will she have the gall to do next? How much work does she have to do to bury herself in the denial?

NC is new for me with tons of confusion, but I realize how truly little I know my M at all. I am now suspecting covert Narc. Where does she feel like she has a right to interfere with my life and contact my husband, when she so clearly does not love or care about either of us and knowingly partook in such awful gossip?

How could she possibly think he'd be responsive and OK with this? How can she have the mental process to think "Hmmmmm my daughter isn't responding so I'll bug her husband next, I'm totally within my rights to do that even though I talk trash about him being a wife beater and he knows it? Yep, seems like a fine thing to do to me?" (????)

I can't believe I was raised by her and managed to become who I was despite who she is. She feels like she can do and treat people, and leverage relationships, in whatever way and for whatever purpose she wants with no repercussions. I never saw this side of her as this ugly, only when she was very upset as a child;  I still feel FOG and confusion about how I feel about my mother but the fact that she can do this in a calm mental state is appalling to me.

I also now see how she clearly thinks my husband is sensitive and emotional that he could be vulnerable to a hoover, or that she could try to get to me through him.

Which means something even more mind-boggling to me, that she probably doesn't actually think he is abusive towards me at all - she is just going along with whatever narrative suits her needs and reality the most in the moment.

Still can't believe it. I have no clue who this woman is.

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm so sorry both for you and your husband. The absolute brazenness PDs and their minions are capable of when it comes to doling out abuse and then rug sweeping and hoovering as if it never happened is truly mindboggling.

My husband got into a massive disagreement with his unBPD mother last week. The next day, she gave a quick, meaningless fauxpology and then went right back to her inane texts about this and that. He was totally floored that she could pretend to go back to normal so quickly.

Which means something even more mind-boggling to me, that she probably doesn't actually think he is abusive towards me at all - she is just going along with whatever narrative suits her needs and reality the most in the moment.

Remember this and remember it well. It's something I've only just realized with my MIL. She will say anything and grasp at any possible narrative if she thinks it will further her agenda, even if it conflicts with something she said two minutes prior. All that matters is getting her way.

[TwentyTwenty]

I'm sorry you are going through this.

If you expect mentally ill people to act mentally ill, then you will never be surprised. Because they are mentally ill, and just act that way.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Thank you, Cat of the Canals and TwentyTwenty, for chiming in. I needed someplace to offload a little. I feel much more validated over this, and thank you for your words and understanding where I am at.

It's getting closer to a year now of NC, after letting my FOO know that the only way forward and building trust in a relationship with me is by addressing the problem and how to fix it - and without gaslighting, saying I made it all up, and addressing the harm they've all caused us in the family dynamic - and especially telling the enablers in my FOO (M and younger sib) that a relationship with my psychopathic/sociopathic PD sib is not possible.

The more time goes by, the more reality sets in, that they will probably never try to confront me about this. It's the silent treatment for them I guess. To my face they will continue their front that nothing is wrong, nothing has shaken them - while I'm sure that to all the people they are close with, my extended family, etc. they've made up their cover story of how it was all my fault.

The layers are starting to unravel. Some part of me still has a hard time accepting that it was this easy for my FOO to just turn their back and walk away from my pain, even after knowingly adding to it considerably. Especially my M. I can't believe this is who these people have been all along.

[TwentyTwenty]

It is painful at first to accept, but once you see the real people that were behind the masks, once they come off; there's no un-seeing it. You know forevermore who they really are and there's no going back.

Gaslighting and consistent smear is the way forward for them, and the more time that goes by, the more they begin to believe their own lies.

My only regret was that it took me so long to get to the life that I deserve with complete happiness and joy... if I could have only made up my mind 30 years ago that they can all step off and go to hell.

[My New Life]

I think it is the jaw-dropping audacity, that makes gas-lighting so easy.  I tried and tried to make sense of the actions of my mother because life should make sense.  A mom should be acting out of love, etc.  So when she would tell me, I was mistaken.  That the reason her actions did not make sense, was because the incident didn't happen - either at all, or in the way I recalled it - I actually wanted to believe her, rather than believe me.  Now that I am removed from the situation a bit, I am still struck speechless over many, many things that went down, and my reaction to them.  But now, I can at least believe me.

I am sorry this is happening in your life.

[Hilltop]

Yep its mind boggling what they think is normal. My mother has been contacting DH and in-laws.  Its just a way to act like nothing has happened, pass the time until communication is back to normal and off they go again, without thinking anything of it. 

Distance coming to terms with the fact that this is them, is huge.  The layers are unravelling. They are unable to deal with those emotional layers, they cannot face that pain or deal with it.  I still would love to understand gas lighting more.  Do they know what they are doing?  If they delude themselves, hmmm not good, but if they know what they are doing wow.  Scary.

[Boat Babe]

They totally know they are gaslighting. Without a shadow of a doubt.

What I find mind-blowing  is how good they are at it. I mean this from the human behaviour point if view. Gaslighting is often really subtle, has a narrative structure almost and can be maintained for years at a time. Also, it's not taught in schools or anywhere. I mean that it isn't a mainstream behaviour that one can work towards!  There isn't a manual as far as I know!  And they all do it from the same playbook,using the same manipulations and tactics. Victims comment on this all the time.  And the effects on their victims are devastating.   It is a tool of control, pure and simple. Used by predators.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Thank you so much for your responses! Boat Babe, Hilltop, TwentyTwenty, My New Life - they were very heartening.

They were also just what I needed to keep me in reality! I got mega love-bombed by my M last night. ("I miss you, I think of you every day, nothing's the same" - nothing self-aware or reflective at all, no apology, no "let's talk about this, let's fix this", nothing). And then around the same time, at 9 PM (when I was in bed!), my younger enabler sib blew up my phone with repeated calls without leaving a message or even texting. As usual, I heard nothing from actual PD sib. (M and other sib act as her goonies now, she doesn't need to do a thing.)

Again I'm kind of flabbergasted. Someone who refuses to stand by you (my M), and literally watches and does nothing as you are slowly roasted and then exiled from the family, is not someone who misses you or loves you - not genuinely. Still, I felt pangs of guilt and wanting to show love and to message her back this morning (but remind her I would still like space), having some ridiculous notion in the moment that maybe she does really love me, but now that morning is here, I'm even second guessing that. My DH is very fogged about this and says things like "well of course she loves you and is worried, she's your mom" and that can really shake me in the moment, but it just can't be true. Part of me accepts it, another part of me does not.

I'm also NC on more of a no-response level, only so I can see what their responses and contact attempts are like - and in a way I am curious to see what happens when things move into the "rage" phase, if it does, and I feel like that sort of evidence will strengthen me I'm my decision. But the more minutes pass the more this feels just like bait, trying to get something, anything from me that they can talk about and rip to shreds. They're low on supply and no longer have a scapegoat, and I wonder if this is just desperation as they put more pressure on each other.

And my younger sibling! WOW. Repeated calls, no message, clearly she had just talked to my M and was enraged, hoping for an ambush. Calling at 9 PM? No regard whatsoever for my life, my schedule. It also feels like my M is spurring her to be the "angry/confrontational" one so that M can still look good. That's why this feels so much like bait, both reaching out around the same time. My DH was there and said "you're not going to answer?" And I was like "Do you really think someone blowing up your phone after 8 months when you asked for space is going to be pleasant and lucid to talk to?" (Also it's 9-o-freaking-clock at night!!!!)

I was so tempted to respond to both. I am thinking about just a medium chill response, to reinforce no contact, but even that feels less and less like something I want to do as minutes pass.

But then again, I feel like I have to throw them something or reinforce no contact somehow. I have this nightmare scenario in my head where they just show up at my house one day (one, two, or all of them) to rescue/confront me ,whatever crazy narrative of the moment makes sense to them. Though thankfully they live so far away it would be a huge effort to come here, and they have often frowned down on where I live when we were in contact anyway. I would only hope some medium chill response would prevent that, that being the only reason....

[AlisonWonder]

Yeah Distance this really is a thing - wondering if there is some kind of communication that will in fact keep them away.  For a while I thought maybe I should send regular emails to those of my adult relatives who are uPD, to make them believe I wanted a relationship with them, and thus, keep them away.  Using their own passive aggression against them, like sailing against the wind. 

But in the end, I have to keep it simple and go for what I do want, despite the consequences.  It's not healthy for me to be devious.  So I went VVVVLC with them.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Thank you Alison Wonder 

Yeah I'm pretty torn over this hoover. It's the hardest one yet. Some part of me doesn't want to let go of the possibility that they could change (my M and younger sibling specifically, who I'm still not sure they're PDs - I'm permanent NC with older sib tho, who is def overt PD characteristics) and has a hard time blocking them by phone, which would be the final frontier.

That same part of me is concerned things could escalate because I have responded to nothing and blocked them on social media for 8 months - and wants to throw them a medium chill/grey rock bone to release some tension.

But then I think that might come at a price. Maybe it wouldn't release tension, only create more. And I'm so over the interactions that went in circles or nowhere that went on for months to years leading up to NC.

I'm not ready for full NC with those two yet I guess. But still each contact feels confusing and awful, especially because its always so covert/love bomby, and on the other hand the thought of engaging with them at all feels like it's going to be a headache, and will only be more of the same - manipulating, gaslighting, rug-sweeping. Though my therapist tells me not to be a fortune teller....