How to tell FOO that I'm now NC with PD Parent

[completelyperdue]

Hello Everyone!

I've posted earlier in this forum that I have recently gone NC with my uNPDm and what led up to me making that decision. I explained to my aunt and uncle (they're both non-PD) the day that I decided to go NC that I was not going to be speaking with uNPDm for a while due to the circumstances surrounding why I went NC. My aunt did say that I shouldn't abandon my uNPDm because she's family, etc. even though she was astonished by my uNPDm's actions towards me. However, I thought when I said that I wasn't going to be speaking to my mom for 'a while' that it implied that it was going to be longer than two weeks.
I got a text message from my aunt late last night before I was to go to bed that unfortunately triggered me and I ended up not getting much sleep.  The text was a simple," Have you spoken to your uNPDm yet?"
I know that she really did not mean any harm from this, but at the same time I feel like I might have to spell it out for her and my uncle that I have no intentions of contacting my mom for a very long time due to the nature of what went down.  I have not told them yet that my T and I do think that my m has NPD or that anything is seriously wrong mentally with my m. They are starting to realize that with everything that happened that there is something very wrong with my uNPDm, but they're also coming from their religious background that you don't abandon family no matter how much they hurt and/or abuse you. 
Does anyone have any ideas of how to explain to FOO members that you are NC with a PD parent? I'm still wondering how to do it tactifully without upsetting my uncle and aunt.

Thanks!

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hey CompletelyPerdue, that's a stinky message to receive right before bed.

Why is it your responsibility to explain your relationship with your M to your aunt? It's between you and M. Even if your aunt means well, it's not her business. I think it would be fine to simply say that to your aunt, rather than continue to explain. (JADE. If you haven't already, it's explained really well on the main site under "What Not To Do.")

I doubt it's possible to explain yourself in such a way that you won't upset them. And even if it were possible, again you are not responsible for their feelings. It's clear you care, but perhaps their feelings can best be spared by everyone minding their own business.

This is tricky. You are bucking the system in so many ways. Of course it's not going to be smooth. Unfortunately many people care more about keeping the status quo and not challenging their own beliefs more than your need for safety and being treated decently. They probably see it as "doing the right thing," but in my own experience with I find using religion or whatever is merely a crutch to hold up the denial that keeps that status quo. It's telling that they recognize your M's behavior as problematic, but it's on you to salvage the relationships. I wonder if they're on your mother to apologize to YOU.

If it matters to you, I am a Christian, and a religious person. I've studied the question and "turn the other cheek" and "forgive 7x70" does NOT mean you have a duty to take abuse. Even from family. The Bible has lots to say about bad fathers and mothers. But I don't want to derail your thread.

[completelyperdue]

Hey Call Me Cordelia,

Yeah, I typically don't check my texts prior to going to bed, but I saw the little red notification on my phone and I thought it was my DS texting me a cat photo or some funny video she found. I am going to set some more Do Not Disturb rules on my phone that won't show me text notifications during sleeping hours so this does not happen again.

I do agree that it isn't really my responsibility to explain the relationship with my uNPDm to my aunt. I pretty much have a rough draft of a text message that basically states that after speaking with my T about the events that have transpired with my uNPDm that I have decided that it is best for me to not be in contact with my uNPDm for the forseeable future. Just keeping it as neutral as possible without overly explaining everything. They know that I have a T, but they don't know that I've been in T for over 7 years now more because of uNPDm than my ex-uNPD/OCPD/ASPDh.

It is tricky, but it is definitely WAY easier to buck the system now that my eGrandma has since passed away 5 months ago and the rigid family system that she had built. There is still some sense of the status quo and the expectations to maintain that, but not as heavily as it was when my eGrandma was still alive. Even still, I don't think my eGrandma would have been at all okay with what happened.

I did not think about how they do recognize my uNPDm as being problematic, but they're leaving it up to me to salvage things. I think it might be because my uncle, who is my uNPDm's brother, probably knows what she's like and does not want to have to deal with her more than he has to. It is passing the buck in a lot of ways if I really think about it. It would not surprise me though if they are at some point going to talk to her about apologizing to me about everything, but I know that will just hit a brick wall of narcissism that they're not going to get around.

I am a spiritual person and not so much a religious one, but I have been to luke173ministries.org and read through what the Bible does say about how no one has the duty to take abuse from family or anyone else for that matter. It does help me to know that the Bible does have a lot to say about bad parents outside of the major commandment of," Honor thy father and thy mother..."

Thanks for your kind words. Don't worry about hijacking my thread. I'm cool with whatever comfort/solace/information I can get at this point.

[moglow]

Completelyperdue, going forward I'd be careful what and how much I share with others, kind of on a need to know basis. I know they probably mean well in the big picture [most people really aren't out to hurt you], but every question answered raises more and you don't need to be repeatedly explaining yourself and your choices. Maybe find ways to gently say, I'd rather not talk about this. I'm doing what I need to do, and I really don't want to drag others into it.

The less said about your mother the better, basically. You don't need a go-between here. Find and embrace gray rock responses on this subject and keep on with your relationships with other family members. If they can't or won't respect your needs to not talk about this with them, maybe back off a bit in those relationships as well. It's a tightrope, I know, never easy to do.

[Fiasco]

I know we are often over-sharers for whatever reason having to do with the PD abuse as kids but you don't need to explain anything to anyone. A good answer to "have you called your mom" might be something like "not lately, busy busy!" and if you get follow up questions like "when are you going to call" turn that right around on the person asking. "Why do you ask, was there something you wanted to tell her? You should probably not wait for me and just call her yourself. Busy busy!"

[Starboard Song]

This topic comes up from time to time. You are not alone, and it is truly hard. Our family, friends, neighbors, and colleagues do not understand.

People often struggle with what to say when a neighbor asks if your going to see family at Thanksgiving. That's a softball: "no, we don't see each other much," and move on. They don't need the story. If they get wind that there is an estrangement, still easy. I am a fan of the insoucient "no, they put the fun in dysfunctional, so we don't speak," and move on.

But family is different. In my opinion, and this is controversial, your aunt is not being rude when she encourages you to resume contact, or asks about it. In 95% of family disputes, the right thing to do is to resume contact, make nice, and move on. And those acts are abetted daily by sweet aunts who seek to be our better angels. Such sweet aunts, when they stumble into the PD briars, are not suddenly transformed into evil flying monkeys: they are merely mistaken.

The problem here is that she doesn't know or cannot see the truth of what you've experienced. I don't think that, for that alone, we ought to lose such people in our lives. We deserve more love and not less, and I think it is a shame to let the PDs in our lives rob us of other family.

So I encourage you to make a strong, clear statement of this sort: at this time, you remain not in contact with _______, though you highly value the bonds of family; you continue to give strong consideration to the future, and you are committed to not dwelling on the past; you consider this a great moral crisis and do not take the matter lightly; you recognize their kind hearts and well-meaning advice, but this is a challenge you'll have to work out for yourself; you appreciate their love and support, and it is nice to know that they are there for you; you trust that they can respect your need for space as you work through this challenge on your own.

After that, you can patiently repeat versions of this a few times. There does come a point, no doubt, where such people are no longer behaving acceptably. If that day comes, you do have to at some point take a stronger stand. The problem is deep: if we try to explain all the details we are dragging them into our dispute. If we do not explain all the details, it is right and decent of them not to understand. So we are trying to thread a needle with a small eye indeed: frustrating them into confused silence, until they slowly come to respect that you are the same loving person you've always been.

Good luck.


Be good. Be strong.

[JustKathy]

Hi completelyperdue,

You're in a really difficult place here. To my experience, other members of the FOO just want to maintain the status quo. I also had an aunt who was clearly aware that there was something wrong with my NPDmother but encouraged me to just "work it out."  I'm pretty sure she feared being on the receiving end of my mother's wrath and was doing whatever she could to keep the peace.

I do find it odd that your Aunt sent a text late at night before bed asking if you'd spoken with your mother. It's possible she's being used as a flying monkey, maybe unknowingly. If you reply that you don't want to talk about she'll probably persist. Maybe reply that no, you haven't spoken with your mother or that you don't currently have any plans to speak to her, and leave it at that. I agree with Moglow that the less said the better. Any details that are put in writing will very likely be shared and used against you. Try to shut it down without getting emotional or citing specifics.

It's so hard when you start NC to deal with the reactions of other family members. I tried to stay in contact with a few extended family members but once it became clear that I was permanently NC, I lost them all to my Nmother's smear campaign, so I'm now glad that I didn't give them any personal details. Unfortunately, no matter how you explain it, an NPDmother will find a way to make you look like the bad guy.

I know this is really a difficult time for you. Hang in there.

[completelyperdue]

Completelyperdue, going forward I'd be careful what and how much I share with others, kind of on a need to know basis. I know they probably mean well in the big picture [most people really aren't out to hurt you], but every question answered raises more and you don't need to be repeatedly explaining yourself and your choices. Maybe find ways to gently say, I'd rather not talk about this. I'm doing what I need to do, and I really don't want to drag others into it.

The less said about your mother the better, basically. You don't need a go-between here. Find and embrace gray rock responses on this subject and keep on with your relationships with other family members. If they can't or won't respect your needs to not talk about this with them, maybe back off a bit in those relationships as well. It's a tightrope, I know, never easy to do.

Hey Moglow,

I agree with you about keeping things on a need to know basis. It is a little difficult when I finally have other family members that are seeing that my uNPDm has issues, and I really want to run to them and tell them everything that I can.
Unfortunately, I know that would backfire spectacularly since it might get back to uNPDm and then all sort of hell would errupt from there.
It sucks, but I do think being grey rock about the situation with my family would be for the best.

Thanks for your advice!

[completelyperdue]

I know we are often over-sharers for whatever reason having to do with the PD abuse as kids but you don't need to explain anything to anyone. A good answer to "have you called your mom" might be something like "not lately, busy busy!" and if you get follow up questions like "when are you going to call" turn that right around on the person asking. "Why do you ask, was there something you wanted to tell her? You should probably not wait for me and just call her yourself. Busy busy!"

Thanks Fiasco! Might be something that I can employ as time goes on to say I'm too busy to be in contact with her.

[completelyperdue]

This topic comes up from time to time. You are not alone, and it is truly hard. Our family, friends, neighbors, and colleagues do not understand.

People often struggle with what to say when a neighbor asks if your going to see family at Thanksgiving. That's a softball: "no, we don't see each other much," and move on. They don't need the story. If they get wind that there is an estrangement, still easy. I am a fan of the insoucient "no, they put the fun in dysfunctional, so we don't speak," and move on.

But family is different. In my opinion, and this is controversial, your aunt is not being rude when she encourages you to resume contact, or asks about it. In 95% of family disputes, the right thing to do is to resume contact, make nice, and move on. And those acts are abetted daily by sweet aunts who seek to be our better angels. Such sweet aunts, when they stumble into the PD briars, are not suddenly transformed into evil flying monkeys: they are merely mistaken.

The problem here is that she doesn't know or cannot see the truth of what you've experienced. I don't think that, for that alone, we ought to lose such people in our lives. We deserve more love and not less, and I think it is a shame to let the PDs in our lives rob us of other family.

So I encourage you to make a strong, clear statement of this sort: at this time, you remain not in contact with _______, though you highly value the bonds of family; you continue to give strong consideration to the future, and you are committed to not dwelling on the past; you consider this a great moral crisis and do not take the matter lightly; you recognize their kind hearts and well-meaning advice, but this is a challenge you'll have to work out for yourself; you appreciate their love and support, and it is nice to know that they are there for you; you trust that they can respect your need for space as you work through this challenge on your own.

After that, you can patiently repeat versions of this a few times. There does come a point, no doubt, where such people are no longer behaving acceptably. If that day comes, you do have to at some point take a stronger stand. The problem is deep: if we try to explain all the details we are dragging them into our dispute. If we do not explain all the details, it is right and decent of them not to understand. So we are trying to thread a needle with a small eye indeed: frustrating them into confused silence, until they slowly come to respect that you are the same loving person you've always been.

Good luck.


Be good. Be strong.

Hey Starboard Song,

  I did feel a little awkward asking this question since I know this probaby has been asked about in the past on this forum, but I really do appreciate everyone's response.
  I agree with you that my aunt had no intentions of harm when asking if I had any contact with my uNPDm. She really is a sweet woman who does not really know the full extent of what my uNPDm has done to me, GC sis, and my eDad over the years. My uNPDm has done a good job of trying to make our family look as normal as possible to outsiders that they would probably be horrified if I even told them a fraction of what my uNPDm is like behind closed doors.
I ended up texted back my aunt that after talking with my T about everything that has gone on with my uNPDm that I have decided not to be in contact with uNPDm for the forseeable future. She did not have much of a response to that, but it is what it is. I do think that she understands though because she even told me over the phone a week ago that if anything like what happened with my uNPDm happened to her, she would have had a totally different (and very non-PD) reaction.
I will definitely be using what you suggested in future conversations if they do press me into contacting my uNPDm. That is very well written and it says what needs to be said withouth dragging up everything.
Thanks for your kind words. Trying to stay strong and good over here as much as possible.

[completelyperdue]

Hi completelyperdue,

You're in a really difficult place here. To my experience, other members of the FOO just want to maintain the status quo. I also had an aunt who was clearly aware that there was something wrong with my NPDmother but encouraged me to just "work it out."  I'm pretty sure she feared being on the receiving end of my mother's wrath and was doing whatever she could to keep the peace.

I do find it odd that your Aunt sent a text late at night before bed asking if you'd spoken with your mother. It's possible she's being used as a flying monkey, maybe unknowingly. If you reply that you don't want to talk about she'll probably persist. Maybe reply that no, you haven't spoken with your mother or that you don't currently have any plans to speak to her, and leave it at that. I agree with Moglow that the less said the better. Any details that are put in writing will very likely be shared and used against you. Try to shut it down without getting emotional or citing specifics.

It's so hard when you start NC to deal with the reactions of other family members. I tried to stay in contact with a few extended family members but once it became clear that I was permanently NC, I lost them all to my Nmother's smear campaign, so I'm now glad that I didn't give them any personal details. Unfortunately, no matter how you explain it, an NPDmother will find a way to make you look like the bad guy.

I know this is really a difficult time for you. Hang in there.

Hey justKathy,
I agree with you that I'm in a bit of a difficult spot with my FOO, and I know that they probably want to maintain the status quo in some ways. I don't think that as far as my aunt it is out of malice, but more of the societial expectations of," She's your mom..." Although since everything that has happened has opened up the eyes of both my aunt and uncle that my uNPDm is not normal. My uncle is more of the one who seems to not want to deal with my uNPDm more than he has to.
Yeah, I thought it was really odd to text me that late at night to ask if I had been in contact with uNPDm. She said that she and my uncle just got back into town and if I had been in contact with uNPDm, which she did not tell me at all that her and my uncle were going out of town anywhere.  Not sure if she is being used as a flying monkey or not, but I think what both you and Moglow have said about keeping things MC/grey rock with my family as far as going NC with my uNPDm is probably the best route to take.
I ended up texted her back saying that after speaking with my T about the situation that I am not going to be in contact with my uNPDm for the forseeable future. She did not have much to say after that, so if she does relay that to my uNPDm since she was being assigned to be an unwitting flying monkey, ainsi soit-il.
I know that more than likely over time that my uNPDm will probably try a smear campaign against me as time goes on. I'm the SG child, so I'm pretty much the subject to all of the smear campagins and abuse that has happened over the years. Whether the FOO buys the smear campagin or not will have to be seen when that time comes. I would like to keep them in my life since they seem to be the only sane family outside of my GC-Sis that I have.
It is a tough time, but I'd rather deal with my FOO and telling them that I'm NC than to continue to speak with my uNPDm who has really become a toxic and potientially dangerous person for me.
Thank you for your words. They really do help.

[Starboard Song]

Trying to stay strong and good over here as much as possible.

It sounds to me like you are doing a really great job. This stuff with other friends and family is a super challenge, and it is just never going to be easy. Good luck to you!