Personal Anger

[Monkey Boy]

I'm relatively new here and been reading through the forums and it's helping me but I'm having a problem with me mirroring my DP partners anger.  We've been together over 23 years and up to 3 -4 years ago when he was having an episode and lashing out illogically at me, I would be calm and try to de-escalate the situation.  But now I find that I mirror back the anger sometimes because I'm really ticked that he is totally disrespecting be as a person, and even move, his partner.  I know that this is dangerous but the anger of my emotional mind shoots out before my logical mind kicks in.  Any ideas?  Counseling is currently not an option.

[Starboard Song]

My first suggestion is boundaries. When executed at guru levels, boundaries absolutely prevent this sort of acting out. But you are with this person for 23 years, and boundaries will be a challenge to establish. In case you are new to this concept of boundaries, here is a description I wrote for a friend earlier today:

Boundaries are not a restraint on others: they are boundaries for you, not for others. They are an expression of what you will or won't do, or engage with. This is very much a statement of morals.

Boundaries are dependent on your will to follow through, not on others to obey.

Strong boundaries are an act of love and kindness. We establish boundaries to fulfill our obligation to others: for boundaries provide a peaceful space within which you can thrive, both for yourself and for all of those who rely upon you.

Boundaries should be enforced peacefully and without anger: they are your own job and no one else's. Good boundaries can be enforced without resorting to nuclear options, but bad people can make any boundary unadministerable.

[Boat Babe]

Very useful info on boundaries Starboard song. Thanks.

[Aeon]

Thanks for this advice Starboard. I'm having the same issue as Monkey.
While the uAvpdH is hitting everything he can in his rage, I mirror it back.
It seems like nothing helps and I, too think about how awful I'm being treated.
Hang in there, Monkey Boy, dealing with this stuff is tough. 

[Hilltop]

Walk away, as soon as you see it escalate or turn reactive, or hear name calling or you feel triggered to respond angrily simply say you need time out and remove yourself.  Go for a walk or a drive, don't just go to another bedroom, physically remove yourself and then find techniques that work for you to calm yourself down.  Maybe deep breathing, exercise, go for a drive, meditation.  Its something that has to work for you.

Come back when things have settled and you can talk about it without the anger.  People don't listen when they are angry so at that point staying to try to talk is pointless.  Even if you feel you need to try to deescalate the situation, don't, walk away, make calming yourself as the main priority.

[Lauren17]

I'm in a similar length marriage with uBPd.
I completely understand the anger you're describing.
Anger is your brain/heart/soul telling you that something is wrong. It took me a long time to learn to listen to that anger. Once I understood the "what" behind my anger, I was better able to manage it.
I highly recommend Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist by Margalis Fjelsted. The book provides lots of questions and activities to help deal with this very thing, including how to define and maintain those boundaries so accurately described by Starboard Song.

[blunk]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I remember feeling the same when I was still married to my bpdxh. The main difference, IMO, is that as nons we may get angry, but we have the self-awareness to realize when we are wrong. I found that I would normally only react in anger after having it hurled at me for hours, and sometimes days, on end.

The other main difference was that once my x stopped being angry, he acted as if nothing had happened, and I was expected to do the same. If I brought up any of his bad behavior, I was...throwing the past in his face.

On the other hand, after I had one of those bouts of anger, I felt drained and sad. I remember saying to him once, every time I react like that I feel like I lose a little piece of myself. His response was...being a little dramatic, aren't we?

That made me realize, he really did think that. He saw screaming and raging as normal and acceptable, and feeling bad about it as wrong and weak. I didn't like who I was becoming, and I knew that if I stayed with him I would never get those pieces back. In a few weeks I will have been divorced for 6 years. I can't say this is the right path for you, but I can honestly say that I can't remember the last time I felt angry.

[Starboard Song]

If I brought up any of his bad behavior, I was...throwing the past in his face.

Wow. I know that tactic.

They would complain ad nauseum about what we'd done in the past. It was an inflammatory and fictionalized version, but still. Then, if you tried to correct that record, or describe their own behavior, however mildly, they suddenly said this wasn't about logic and facts: it was about emtions. And anyway, why was I so obsessed with the past -- like, a month ago -- and why couldn't I move on like them?

Astounding and agrifying.

[blunk]

Exactly, Starboard Song. Just one of the double standards that we face in dealing with PWPDs.

I think the most frustrating aspect of this was as you said. Not only was it ok for him to bring up my past "transgressions", but yes, they were usually inflammatory and fictionalized. Often he would tell me that he knew why I "really" did, said, or even thought certain things...regardless of whether what he was describing actually happened. And again, as you said, at these times it became about emotions rather than logic, he felt a certain way, and since he could not cope with his feelings it had to be my fault, even if it meant creating a narrative that made it so.

And IMO sometimes it was purely about gaslighting for the sake of gaslighting. There was one time that he was right in my face, rage screaming. I was instantly shaking. I stated that I would not speak to him when he was that angry, and attempted to leave the room. He insisted that he wasn't even yelling, and that I was crazy. I honestly had to go in the bedroom and write it down, because he was so adamant that I knew it was just a matter of time before he had me doubting my reality.

[AlisonWonder]

One time, in a rage, my uNPDex said "don't you say 'all right'  to ME!!!"

(nearly his exact words, to protect the illogical)

[JustKeepTrying]

Oh my, Monkey Boy, a lot to unpack here.

The discussion on boundaries is spot on.  There is an excellent series of books and work books on boundaries.  Christian based philosophy in the books, FYI. I tried boundaries in my marriage (32 years).  It didn't work for me.  He kept crossing and no matter what I said, stated, kept in my mind, all of it - it didn't work.  The gaslighting was so very real and I doubted what I said after I said it.  But, now, out of the marriage, I can walk away/send to voicemail/communicate email and enforce those boundaries.

As for the anger, think back to those moments and identify where, physically, you experience the anger first.  Your partner starts to yell, where do you feel it?  For me it was in my chest.  Like a tight ball.  When that started and grew, I could feel like a tinker bell voice telling me to walk away/keep my mouth shut/don't engage.  The last few years I wasn't able to keep my tongue.  I was just so tired of the dumping/screaming/abuse.  A switch would flip, and I would think, why do you get to  be angry and not me?  But in the end, it never resolved anything.  He would rage out and the issue would remain and sit and fester until it would come again and I would be in such fear.  For decades, issues would never resolve because of this cycle.

So listen to yourself, physically and mentally, be ready to walk away.  Let it wash over you if you can't leave.  Know that it is their problem not yours.  Don't give in and congratulate yoruself for your restraint.  Be good to yourself after.  If you feel the temptation to yell back, don't say anything, just leave.  Go.  Be safe.

You got this.

[1footouttadefog]

I think that you are feeling angry is a healthy sign.

It means you are moving from a role where you are trying to please him amd fix his problems as an extention of him, to being a separate person who deserves better treatment.

There are many useful tools in the toolbox section.  Reading the traits and identifying your part in all of it can help.  I realized i had some habits I had picked up as a result of dealing with crazy.  I did not like seeing them marked on the list, and yet itbshowed me where the relationship had taken me. And I decided to work on getting myself back whether it helped the relationship or not. It was a matter of integrity and needed self respect.

I had a lot of anger there for a while.  I realized it came in waves as I grieved various aspects of my life and relationship.  The potentiel and opportunities lost, the years lost, the negative impact on my kids, that my spouse would never be the man I was tricked into thinking I was marrying. That he was gone and would never be.  That I may have never been loved by him the way I deserve to be loved and never would be.  And some much more was grieved.  Anger is part of grief.

I was able to set aside another source of anger when I quit expecting different from he who would not change.  I quit expecting a connection with a man who was not capable of connecting.  I no longer expected emotional intimacy with an emotionally ill equipt person.

As I quit expecting certain things from my PDH, I quit settimg him up for failure.  This improved the lashing out from him and greatly reduced the tension. 

I have been lowering the bar ever since as he declines.  I recently had to take gardianship of my spouse as some of his dianoses are progressive.

You deserve to live without abuse regardless of the diagnoses.  Anger may be a sign there is still work to do to get out of an abusive situation. 

Take care of you, and dont be hard on yourself for feeling angry.  For me it felt so wrong and I felt guilt over feeling angry.  I see it as a sign of progress now.