Flying monkey brother - Im so annoyed

[p123]

Heres the message in full :-

[Edited: removed direct quote - moglow]

Didnt use the word lying mind. BTW my mum and dad divorced 49 years ago. Dad hates her. I don't see her. Im so annoyed they're both talking about me in this way.

[Lisa]

Wow, that's a really aggressive sounding text message.  That would be hard to receive from anyone let alone a family member.  Sending you care and kindness

[Hepatica]

That's a very cruel message. I'm sorry. I'd be really annoyed too.

Remember how you feel, because this is a good example of how the toxicity leaks into a life. I think often we forget how bad it makes us feel, but it is not good for us, even if we do forget.

Do you want these people in your life at all? I'd be really asking myself that question. My sister did the same type of thing to me. She tried to schedule my time with my very sick mother. Her behaviour ended up destroying my relationship with her because I felt bad nearly every time I interacted with her.

It looks like there is a long history of your father being unfair and mean to people. I'm sorry. I know how painful that is.

I hope you find a way to keep your life as peaceful as you can.

Btw: you're not lying. There has been a shut down. What is your brother even talking about?

[Andeza]

Hey P123, I thought you blocked your brother late last year, for essentially this same kind of stuff. Did he find a way through? If he did, just block him again and carry on. He's clearly in his own version of reality, which is quite normal for dysfunctional individuals. Salespeople for guilt trips need not apply.

[Cat of the Canals]

Yuck. My brother did this once. Not quite so aggressively or rudely. I needed some space after one of my mother's outbursts directed at me, which included a bout of the silent treatment. Once she was done playing ST, he swooped in and told me, "Now would be a good time to smooth things over with mom."

When I told him I didn't feel that was necessary at the moment, and that I really wasn't ready to talk to her, he told me I was "acting just like her." I don't know if he could have said anything more insulting.

I realized then and there that he didn't understand at all and maybe never would. (He's come around some since then, most likely because I'm not there to be a buffer since I moved away.)

My brother's reaction made sense, though, given the family dynamic has always been: We must do everything in our power to keep mom from getting upset. And when mom inevitably gets upset, we must do everything in our power to appease her.

When I stepped out of this dynamic, he had no idea what to make of it. I'm guessing your situation is similar.

Your brother is trying to guilt and insult you into feel obligated to step in for him. But he's made his choices, and you've made yours. Just because he's comfortable perpetuating this cycle doesn't mean you have to jump onto the hamster wheel with him.

[p123]

Hey P123, I thought you blocked your brother late last year, for essentially this same kind of stuff. Did he find a way through? If he did, just block him again and carry on. He's clearly in his own version of reality, which is quite normal for dysfunctional individuals. Salespeople for guilt trips need not apply.

I thought I had blocked him. But I must have missed facebook messenger. Have now.

[p123]

Yuck. My brother did this once. Not quite so aggressively or rudely. I needed some space after one of my mother's outbursts directed at me, which included a bout of the silent treatment. Once she was done playing ST, he swooped in and told me, "Now would be a good time to smooth things over with mom."

When I told him I didn't feel that was necessary at the moment, and that I really wasn't ready to talk to her, he told me I was "acting just like her." I don't know if he could have said anything more insulting.

I realized then and there that he didn't understand at all and maybe never would. (He's come around some since then, most likely because I'm not there to be a buffer since I moved away.)

My brother's reaction made sense, though, given the family dynamic has always been: We must do everything in our power to keep mom from getting upset. And when mom inevitably gets upset, we must do everything in our power to appease her.

When I stepped out of this dynamic, he had no idea what to make of it. I'm guessing your situation is similar.

Your brother is trying to guilt and insult you into feel obligated to step in for him. But he's made his choices, and you've made yours. Just because he's comfortable perpetuating this cycle doesn't mean you have to jump onto the hamster wheel with him.

This is about the 5th or 6th time I've had this. I thought I'd blocked him.

He did the same a year or so ago and even contacted my wife with some very abusive stuff...

[p123]

That's a very cruel message. I'm sorry. I'd be really annoyed too.

Remember how you feel, because this is a good example of how the toxicity leaks into a life. I think often we forget how bad it makes us feel, but it is not good for us, even if we do forget.

Do you want these people in your life at all? I'd be really asking myself that question. My sister did the same type of thing to me. She tried to schedule my time with my very sick mother. Her behaviour ended up destroying my relationship with her because I felt bad nearly every time I interacted with her.

It looks like there is a long history of your father being unfair and mean to people. I'm sorry. I know how painful that is.

I hope you find a way to keep your life as peaceful as you can.

Btw: you're not lying. There has been a shut down. What is your brother even talking about?

To be honest, no I dont want them in my life at the moment.....

I know this came from my brother but I know damn well Dad is behind this also. He attacks me from a different angle but they're both trying to achieve the same resuilt - "I fall in line with what Dad wants".

Yes its crazy. Last friday it was all over the news in wales, "stay at home" was lifted but there was still a 5 mile travel restriction. Dad lives 20 miles from me (brother 1 mile). Yet, in their head, im lying!

[WinterStar]

Geesh! You're an adult. You get to choose what you will and will not do. And yet your brother orders you around and completely disrespects you. That's ridiculous by itself, but then he starts ignoring travel restrictions and telling you that you are lying while he is lying. I mean, that's crazy.

Your brother is being an a-hole. He was taught by another jerk (your dad) that this type of behavior was acceptable and effective. There's really nothing you can even say to this. I'm sorry they're treating you this way.

[Outsiderchild]

What does he mean,  "OK. You'll have to sort dad out on the 27th /28th this month."?  Is your Dad under some kind of care or watch?  Incapable of being left alone?  Or what?   Just bored and feeling entitled to your life?

Maybe the way you "sort Dad out" is by following the shut down rules?  Maybe you tell "Dad" that you don't appreciate flying monkeys and you will be taking a step back.   Maybe channel that brother-in-law of yours that sorted your wife's mum on how to handle a stroppy, entitled elder. 

Your dad is using triangulation to get your brother to say the nasty things.   Then Dad can just be this needy , old waif that needs, Needs, NEEDS....what?  Special frozen meals that must be delivered by only you while breaking shut down rules?

I am unclear as to what you are supposed to sort?  If your dad can't be left unsupervised for two days then is it time for the authorities to do a health assessment for a nursing facility?  Not sure how it works where you are.  They should be careful asking someone like you to "sort it" as they might not like your solution.   

[p123]

Geesh! You're an adult. You get to choose what you will and will not do. And yet your brother orders you around and completely disrespects you. That's ridiculous by itself, but then he starts ignoring travel restrictions and telling you that you are lying while he is lying. I mean, that's crazy.

Your brother is being an a-hole. He was taught by another jerk (your dad) that this type of behavior was acceptable and effective. There's really nothing you can even say to this. I'm sorry they're treating you this way.

You're not wrong there. I've blocked him now. Its pointless arguing with someone like that.

[p123]

What does he mean,  "OK. You'll have to sort dad out on the 27th /28th this month."?  Is your Dad under some kind of care or watch?  Incapable of being left alone?  Or what?   Just bored and feeling entitled to your life?

Maybe the way you "sort Dad out" is by following the shut down rules?  Maybe you tell "Dad" that you don't appreciate flying monkeys and you will be taking a step back.   Maybe channel that brother-in-law of yours that sorted your wife's mum on how to handle a stroppy, entitled elder. 

Your dad is using triangulation to get your brother to say the nasty things.   Then Dad can just be this needy , old waif that needs, Needs, NEEDS....what?  Special frozen meals that must be delivered by only you while breaking shut down rules?

I am unclear as to what you are supposed to sort?  If your dad can't be left unsupervised for two days then is it time for the authorities to do a health assessment for a nursing facility?  Not sure how it works where you are.  They should be careful asking someone like you to "sort it" as they might not like your solution.

No the 27th/28th is just one weekend where brother has decided hes busy. This is about the 5th time hes come up with a random weekend, made excuses and said I'll have to do it. He did a rota once with my wife on it as well! In the past, I've told him, you do what you can, I'll do what I can, if you can't see dad then thats not a problem.

Thats just it. Dad is absolutely fine. He lives alone, dresses himself, feeds himself - he has no urgent needs. He just WANTS someone to see him every weekend. He gets a kick out of making someone do their duty, It would be different if he had NEEDS.

I mean for 2-3 days shopping is not an issue either. Plan ahead..... I used to buy Dad the more expensive milk that lasted way longer. He moaned it cost more. Now he moans hes got no milk because its out of date!

[moglow]

Moderation note:  We can't allow direct quotes of email/texts/other messages - they're too easily searchable and could compromise your or other people's confidentiality.

***

P123, remember your boundaries, my friend. You don't have to accept every invitation to a fight or conflict. His/other people's stuff is THEIRS, not yours. He can issue whatever edicts and instructions he wants, and you get to choose what you do with it - including whether or not a response is needed. Annoying it may be, but you still get to decide what and when you do things.

Peace, be still. 

[nanotech]

I'm sorry you've been subjected to this.
Now you've blocked him, and there's a stop to it. Good!

I've had the accusations of lying thrown at me. Whatever I said, if it wasn't within their remit, then it was a lie.
It used to anger me and hurt me. The accusation as well, was ludicrous. If anything, I was, and am, far too truthful for my own good. The habit has often got me in hot water at work. I felt as if I had to spill everything I felt.   Brought up always to JADE in great detail, I was constantly in explanation/ defensive/ argument/ justification  mode.
It's cropped up in my FOC relationships too. It isn't healthy.

After decades of being totally disclosing, searching for approval and yet getting mocked and belittled, I began, even, to doubt my own words.
That form of gaslighting has a terrible impact on the self -esteem.

So, when suddenly we change and place whopping great boundaries, they panic, escalate the abuse and accuse us of 'lying'.

But what it actually is, is us finally believing ourselves, after dropping our need for their approval and accepting that these relationships are toxic.

They keep trying to get us to recomply. In order for their own self -image ( false selves) to feel strong  they desperately need us to act in the old dysfunctional ways again.
Our predicted compliance was their ego's safety blanket. 

My UNPDGC brother used to try to tell me where I was going to be on the  'Rota' for dad.  After one 'discussion' he told me I was lying about how long it took me to drive to dad's. Hmmm!
I referred him to the driving times on google maps. Nope, guess what, I was still lying. I sent him a screenshot. Ahh well he said ' I can drive it in half an hour!'
You couldn't make
this stuff up.
But I shouldn't have even engaged with him on driving times- because I was wandering  dangerously into JADEing.
I don't have to explain myself to him, or to any of them. This took years for me to realise.,
I no longer JADE.
Boundaries have been placed.- he's blocked on all social media except texting, and I've told him (calmly) that shan't answer texts unless there is a real emergency with dad. Full stop and no exceptions. He's ignored that boundary twice and sent me two texts about dad's routine GP visits. I held the boundary and I didn't answer these.

I reckon it'll be fine until dad gets frail and possibly in need of care, but he's independent right now.
I'll visit dad and be supportive, but on my own terms.
I see so many similarities with how your brother is with you. I think though that it's harder for you. My dad has now mostly accepted my boundaries and doesn't triangulate. It was my mum who was the great triangulator. When mum passed, a huge chunk of mg FOO's dysfunctional system simply crashed into the sea.

I didn't  see your brother's actual message because it was moderated. But from what's been discussed, I can imagine it.
Your brother must accept that your relationship with your dad is between you two only, separate from his relationship with him. And it's not really his business at all. And he's no business making it his business. That's enmeshment, which is a whole other story!
Good luck and remember you have friends here who get it and who have your back.

[p123]

Yeh I can't quote the message because its not allowed. Oops....

Basically, it was my brother telling me I was lying about not being able to visit, and that Dad knew I was lying too and that Dad had compared me to his ex-wife (our mother) who he hates with a passion saying I was full of it like her. Not a nice thing to say to be honest.

Of course, Dad has strenuously denied this. I'm 90% sure at the moment, they did have this conversation though despite Dads denials. Brother is very hot headed and this is the sort of thing he does.... Dad on the other hand I've worked out will do what it takes.

Not heard from brother since (because hes blocked) but I'm still getting told by proxy via Dad to basically "pull my finger out". Its starting to do my head in with Dad because whatever I say he wont have it.

If you remember this all started because wife had a job where she worked 7 out of 8 weekend days a month. Dragging my 7 year old to see him when he had ZERO interest in her was all getting a bit much. So I switched to visits in the evening. Easier since Im WFH etc and didn't take my daughter.

BUT Dad won't let it go. Is constantly feeding me a story about how brother works so hard, and how hes taking his wife away the weekend and can I come Sunday instead "to look after him" because brother can't. I even said, OK I'll have to bring both kids then and he actually said "Oh dont bring the kids".

These are his grandchildren that hes not seen for over a year. What on earth does he want from me? What do you want me to do with the kids then?

Thing is he does not need "looking after" at all. Hes old yes but he has very few NEEDs. Brother started this years ago by telling him his wife would be his paid carer and Dad is now convinced he's the illest person in the world. I get phone calls telling me how he can't cope any more and he so ill - because his hayfever is bad that day!

Wife doesn't work as many weekends these days so with a bit of organising I could visit BUT I just know if I do this, the floodgates will open and the pair of them will start rota discussions again.....

I can see me exploding again soon. Hes just not pleasant to visit because this is all I get.....

[nanotech]

I've had that treatment - the one where they compare you to a family member  who has been demonised by one or more family members. It's a powerful weapon in order to shame and guilt.
I remember foolishly trying to  convey the virtues of the 51per cent rule with my younger sister.  You know, the one that says you have to attend your own needs just slightly more than others, and this enables you to help others?   
We'd been talking family dysfunction, and I thought we were in the same page.
Whoops.
She straightaway called that selfish, then she said that  our grandma ( dad's mum)  followed rules like that.
Dads mum, our grandma, did have narcissistic traits. To be compared to her was something none of us as kids aspired to.
It was my mum's  weapon of choice at certain times. To say we were 'acting like her', was her worst insult to us. It was typically only thrown at me or my older sis. It was never said to younger sis or UNPDBrother. So in saying that  to to me, decades later, my younger enabling sister opened up an old deep wound from my upbringing. It was all  to pull me back into line and to trample my newly erected boundaries.
Didn't work. I told her that it was self care, not selfishness.
I'm sorry he's like that about his grandkids.
I've seen it too, in my parents and grandmother. Then there was the favouritism, when UNPDBROTHER became a step-parent. That made it ten times harder to deal with.

[WinterStar]

I've had that treatment - the one where they compare you to a family member  who has been demonised by one or more family members. It's a powerful weapon in order to shame and guilt.

Yep. My Ndad does that. The worst possible insult ever would be to be like my mom. And since I'm biologically related to my mom, grew up with her, and am, you know, also a woman, we share some things in common.

Weird new thing is that my BPDm just did the same thing and compared me to my dad. Said something about how she never understood him because he lied to her and then said she thinks now that she's never understood me either. She didn't say I have been lying to her or that I'm like him, but the implication is there. And my dad is a rotten jerk bully sociopath kinda guy, so that's telling of how she's viewing me right now.

[p123]

Yes I'm now the outcast in the family. Good to be honest.

Brother is the GC now. Dad forgets the years where he wouldnt see brother for months on end. The years where he'd spend every night in the pub. He forgets all the sorting I did to get his house renovated, sorted grants etc.

They've both got weird ideas about kids. Brother doesn't bother with his kids from previous relationships, Dad doesn't bother with his grandkids. Both of them think women should do what they're husband says too. (In fact, Dad even thinks a husband has a right to "do what it takes" to make you're wife listen which I find very scary). And ultimately, the idea is Dad comes first and the rest of your family has to understand and fit in.

Opposite to me. Wifes has her own views and opinion. She can't stand my Dad and never wants to speak to him ever again. Thats up to her - and to be perfectly honest, I don't blame her at all after how hes behaved. Dad hates this and constantly tells me to tell her to visit him - sort of to pay homage I think.

I also put my kids first. Dad hates this too because it diverts my time and attention away from him. He tries to tell me "stop spoiling you're kids". I remember one xmas he was in hospital, wanted me to visit him 9am on xmas day. I told him I'd be there AFTER kids opened their presents. He told me "you're wife is there for that, there'll be other xmases for you to see them". Wow.

So, now, apparently, I think I'm "something special" and think I'm "better than them". All because I have different views to them...