Father relationship with NPD daughter

Started by BigBird, March 23, 2021, 01:35:10 PM

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BigBird

(note: I also posted this on the religious forum)

I don't want to stop communication with my daughter.  I want her to know I love her so that if the time comes that she might be influenced to change and come back it will be easier for her because of the contact I keep with her. 

As a father I feel like I have a continual responsibility to encourage and teach my children even though they are all adults and out of the home.  All my children except my NPD daughter seem to appreciate the occassional religious articles or messages I send which might be one every two months or so.  My NPD daughter, regardless of what kind of message I send to her will always revert to the same repeated dialog that she always brings into a conversation that anyone she converses with have heard a million times as it is all she seems to want to talk about.  Regardless of the subject matter, whether it is religious, or anything else she always finds a way to get back to the same subject which is all about her problems. 
I love my daughter and want to have a relationship with her.  The rest of the family love her as well but they all avoid her unless she approaches them and then they are kind, tactful and treat her with love as they patiently listen to her tyrade of non-stop talking for hours if she isn't stopped.  She has chosen to stop any association with the family after her mother, my wife, had to go no-contact and we had to invoke tuff-love as was prescribed to us from counselors and doctors for the sake of my wife's health declining as a result of the abuse the typical victim of NPD go through.   
My daughter hates me and blames me for anything that she can think of which is fine, I've become used to it and it doesn't bother me so much anymore.  She does tell me that she loves me but will never associate with me every again.  However, she does change her story quite a lot so it's not surprising when changes come with her attitude and story.  I reach out to her maybe once a month.  But I'm getting really worn out and tired of the constant negativity and attitude she throws at me when I reach out to her.  When I do reach out it is with love and what I believe is an up-lifting, non-provoking, non-argumentive, kind message.  My other children respond with positive, loving thanks and will often add to the subject matter.  I've had to learn to send hers seperatly instead of as a group message to the rest, otherwise she ruins the whole purpose of my message by going through her typical rage as a response that has nothing to do with the spiritual message and it causes all of us to say nothing with sharing because we are all so tired of dealing with it.

I don't want to stop communication with my daughter.  I want her to know I love her so that if the time comes that she might be influenced to change and come back it will be easier for her because of the contact I keep with her. 

At the same time.  I'm soo, soo tired of dealing with her constant negative attitude.

What has others done.?
Thanks
BB

Penny Lane

Hi BigBird,

I think this is the crux of the issue right here:

Quote from: BigBird on March 23, 2021, 01:35:10 PM
I don't want to stop communication with my daughter.  I want her to know I love her so that if the time comes that she might be influenced to change and come back it will be easier for her because of the contact I keep with her. 

As a father I feel like I have a continual responsibility to encourage and teach my children even though they are all adults and out of the home. 

I know you don't want to go NC with your daughter. But it sounds like you also don't want to adjust your communication with her to a degree that might allow for healthy communication between the two of you. It seems like these are your options: Continue things as they are; adjust your own boundaries and/or behaviors to try to facilitate better communication; go NC.

I don't think it's helpful to spend a lot of energy on taking actions in case she someday changes. She is an adult and it is 100% up to her whether she will change or not. Maybe she will, but she very likely won't. You can keep a space in your life for her in case she changes without subjecting yourself to unpleasant communication in the meantime.

I want to focus a little on the second option, adjusting your boundaries and/or behaviors to try to facilitate better communication. In many ways this is a much harder option than simply going NC. It requires some serious work on yourself, and some trial and error as others are generally not going to help you set boundaries with them. It also involves constantly working to protect those boundaries even as the other person tries to push past it.

It sounds like you want to send your daughter religious messages, and you also don't want her to send you rude messages. But every time you send her a religious message she sends you a rude response. What if you let go of the idea that this is your responsibility? She doesn't want to receive religious messages, and you don't want to receive the responses you get from religious messages. You don't have the power to change how she responds to your messages, but you absolutely have the power to stop sending them altogether! That is one action you could take right now that would bring you a step closer to a better equilibrium.

Some other suggestions: When she is going on a rant that you don't want to participate in, especially if it's directed at you, leave the conversation.
Try to find topics of communication that don't lead to these rants. Are there any safe conversations? It can be superficial: The weather, a show she likes, etc. Maybe that kind of surface conversation is the only pleasant way you can interact with your daughter. That is sad, for sure, but it is a way of interacting.
Try going longer between reaching out. Maybe she can't handle once a month contact, but she can be pleasant with once a quarter contact.

I know these are things that you don't like and don't want to do. But you don't like your current situation either, and you don't want to go NC. If you let go of the idea that she is going to change, what would you need right now to maintain a good, conflict-minimized relationship with your daughter? And what is under your control to move in that direction? I'm not trying to dissuade you from NC or VVLC - and that might be where the relationship is headed anyway - but my sense is that you will want to try these strategies before you turn to that option.

Good luck, I hope that some of these strategies can help you improve your relationship.

BeautifulCrazy

Hi BigBird,

I think what Penny Lane's response covers almost every thought I had about your situation. And some I didn't. I even picked out the same quote that I thought embodied the issues!
Quote from: BigBird on March 23, 2021, 01:35:10 PM
I don't want to stop communication with my daughter.  I want her to know I love her so that if the time comes that she might be influenced to change and come back it will be easier for her because of the contact I keep with her. 

At the same time.  I'm soo, soo tired of dealing with her constant negative attitude.
Adding briefly to what has alreafy been said, It seems to me the simplest solution is to send your daughter your love and nothing else that might invite a reaction.
Literally, a stripped bare message that says;

(daughter's name or endearment you use),

I love you always.

Dad (or whatever you go by)

That's it. That's all.
It is simple. But it is sure not easy!! Many of us here know that.
My other suggestion is that you do what you can to not be personally invested in her response, whatever it may be,or whether she even sends one.
If you feel strong enough, you might even choose not to read or accept any response from her.

I am not personally experienced in a parent to NPD child dynamic, only with other adults, so I'm hoping others on the forum will chime in here.... Would a Medium Chill approach work?
I think that might be something worth reading up on in the toolbox on this site. I'd also encourage reading (or re-reading) the book, Boundaries, by Cloud and Townsend.

Your situation with your daughter sounds heartwrenching. I can see in your writing that you love her very, very much. Please take care of yourself (and your wife).

~ BC

BigBird

Thanks to PennyLane and BeautifulCrazy,


Thank you both.
While reading PennyLane's comments I realized that I already knew I would likely get negative feedback from a simple message that I sent to all my children.  While I feel the responsibiltiy to continue teaching, I also realize with the one daughter it's not healthy and in reality it's just plain stupid on my part to keep trying thinking she's going to one day open her eyes and have a normal reply.  I know that, but for some reason I guess I just hope one day it changes.  Unfortunately realistically I know with this disorder the chances are next to impossible that would ever happen.

While reading BeautifulCrazy's comments I realized that the short messages which I have sent seem to do what I and BeautifulCrazy think is the best solution.  " Hi Sweetheart, just wanted you to know I love you." is an example of something I send maybe every 8 weeks or so.  I might get a reply every other time such as "Thanks You" but most times I don't get a reply at all, which is o.k.  I'm just trying to keep a connection. 

What the two of you have made me realize, and reminded me, is with her disorder she thrives on anything that gives her the needed "supply" or "rush" that she gets from the fight.  It's hard for her to argue with: "Dad loves you" and I think I need to stick with just that simple message and that alone will keep the door open if she ever decides to come back.

Thank You both, your feedback has helped me sort this very much.  Now I've just got to learn to stick to it.
BB

AlisonWonder

Hi BigBird
I think I may be in a similar situation to you so I hope you don't mind if I talk about things that have helped me so far in this extremely painful situation.

I use a reminder service online,  set to however often I want to contact that child.  I found I was "counting the days" and this allows me to relax more.

I no longer use the word love because there seems to be this thing where I say "I love you" and they translate that inwardly as "I'm a god".   I understand this sounds awful, I would have thought so too, once.   I now believe it is the act of contact and being trustworthy that counts, not the word Love.  This comes partly from seeing the extreme lovey things my steppies' mother used to write to them, even as she was cancelling their time with her for the sake of her social life.

I reread every email I want to send, to see how it sounds when read in a "snarky" voice.  The end result of this over the years is I now say words that mean "In my thoughts" and that is all, because whether I hate them or love them, this is obviously true at the time of my sending the email.  It's just about the only thing my child can't make trouble with, eg by repeating it to others. 

I came to feel that just one line, always the same, and on a schedule, would be less threatening or dramatic for my child who has had more than enough drama in their life.  This definitely helped one child approach me after a year or so,  and I think straying from it may well have hindered another child.   Long-term, I don't know what will happen and I make many mistakes along the way.

I hope things improve for us soon.