H told NPDMIl we are in counseling

[Weebles Wobble]

We started marriage counseling about 3 months ago. The main catalyst is NPDMIL. Therapist suggested H set boundaries with MIL that 1. She is not to talk crap about me to him anymore (she would do this constantly on the phone with him and he would just let her!), 2. She is not to talk about us to or around our children. 3. If/when she watches our children (I hate the prospect of this it makes my gut turn) she is to abide by our rules/directions for caretaking.
H had 1 month to set the boundaries. He waited until the day before to go talk to her. 6 hours later he came home and didnt want to talk about it much at all. A month later he just now tells me that he told her we are in marriage counseling and it's mostly about her (I bet she was on cloud 9 about that) and that is how he broached the subject of boundaries. I asked him what else he told her we are in marriage counseling for and he told me he couldnt remember. I dont believe him. I feel utterly betrayed and that he was so afraid to set real boundaries with her that he used me and counseling as the scapegoat. How can I trust him now? To top it off he spent 2 hours on the phone with her right after our last session and now the sun shines out her rear and he has told me that all these family conflicts are my fault because I just cause conflict with everyone. I am petrified of where our relationship is heading.

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm sorry, Weebles. That sounds really hard. I would absolutely feel betrayed in your position. And turning all the blame on you is a really unfair thing to do. *hugs*

Is this a pattern that happens often, where he's willing to discuss the issues with his mother and then ends up falling right back into lockstep with her? And have you discussed any of that with your therapist?

[nanotech]

I'm wondering if you could tell him how all of this has made you feel?
It's tempting to rant/ blame and you've every right, but if you could park that and just tell him,
' I'm feeling let down....' and / or
' we need to re-establish boundaries with mil'

Maybe? I'm not a counsellor though!

I sense that Mil can really manipulate him when she gets him on his own. How about an agreement from him to keep his phone-calls/ visits a lot shorter? Or put MIL on speakerphone and let her know you're all joined in with the chat? Or just listen in?  Make her and hubby more aware of your presence.
It isn't time to 'be the bigger person' by giving her more and more space to work on him.
ATM I think she's getting tons of time to press his emotional buttons. She's pressing  the FOG buttons.  As you someone who loves him, it may be that you are a 'safer' person to risk hurting. 

Sounds like he's only ever had conditional love from his mother.
But he's a big boy. 
He needs to accept responsibility for his behaviour. Counselling is a great context for discussing it.
While it's a clear betrayal and he must wake up and begin to see this, it's likely not because he's putting her first in any way or because he loves her more.
It's a bid for approval from her. He's still stuck in that.
Her' love' is predicated on his obedience to her.
I I do think you have hope. He just has to be able to see all of this. That's a big task and it can take time and effort from both
As his wife, you hold a  lot of cards. Don't be hesitant to use them.
I know that he should realise all of this stuff for himself and just stand up to his mum. But she's playing a wily game.

I'm no expert. But I've experienced this as the 'trapped'one. I risked my own marriage several times in order to continue gaining approval from my FOO. It took me a long time to understand my family dysfunction. 

Please take what you want from what I write, and leave the rest. I may be pinging off my own past a bit too much!
See what resonates.
It's just that l love my husband very much, always did,  but there were times in the past when I coolly threw him under the bus just to seek their approval. It took a major crisis in our marriage to make me see this. Then another one to make me take  VVLC/ NC action.
Don't give up.
I'm sending hugs xxxxx

[Leonor]

Hi Weebles,

Just to chime in with support and hope.

I would feel so deeply seared if my dh had betrayed our trust that way with anyone, let alone his manipulative, abusive parent.

I betrayed my dh's trust that way with my manipulative, abusive parent.

It is still hard for me to fathom how completely my narc mom was able to obliterate any sense of boundary that I might have had. It's not as if there were some fence, no matter how rickety, in my mind that I would cross over to betray my dh with my m.

It's that there was no fence there. Day by day, year by year I was absorbed into her energy sphere from when I was too little to even know I had a name.

It took years of work for me to conceive, let alone believe, that I had any existence apart from her.

It was the sickest abuse, so twisted and wrong, to annihilate a child's precious self. Normal parents delight in their baby's budding personality, their first little "No!", their crush on this or that superhero. Abusive parents sense it, and smother it like a thick blanket over a tiny little match.

Everything that went on the first years of my marriage, and I mean everything, flowed straight from my consciousness into hers.

Your dh has work ahead, but you can help him. Yelling and scolding is not going to work because it's like yelling at a person with earmuffs on. It's not personal, they just don't have the ability to hear; it's been stolen from them.

Also, it seems to me like men prefer checklists over sharing. I can go on and on until I'm blue in the face about dynamics and emotions and perceptions ... Or I can say, "This helps me. Do this."

What helped us and literally saved our marriage, then, was to draw up checklists. Really basic ground rules around my stuff, his stuff, our stuff and their stuff. Like, "DH, I don't want your father to call the house. He should fall your cell phone" or "Leonor, I can't help you with cptsd flare-ups. I need you to call your t."

This way we're not arguing over who is doing what to whom. I think it also might be helpful because your dh is likely miserable too, but he hasn't been in recovery long enough to notice when he is over sharing with his mom. Then if something like this happens you two don't fall off the cliff of despair; you just raise an eyebrow and point. At. The. List.

Hey and while you're at it, include a few nice things in there too, like:

1. Everything we talk about in therapy stays in the therapy room. We don't talk about it with anyone else.

2. After therapy, we (get ice cream / take a walk / watch a silly movie) just to be together without stewing over the rough stuff.

That might help also make it easier for dh to sense where boundaries are.

Good luck to you!

[Weebles Wobble]

Cat: I honestly cant say I know if he discusses intimate details with her often. I think up until this point he has been pretty reserved in doing that. There has been one or 2 times he shared some stuff about my family with her, but it was nothing earth shattering. He tends to go on a rollercoaster in his relationship with her. Most of the time he keeps her semi-distant, but he has times where he is in contact with her multiple times in a week and really wants to see her more frequently than our agreed upon 1x a month. Usually just a reminder of her behaviors is enough to get him to kind of be like "oh, yeah, maybe we should visit with so and so instead". This time is very different.
I actually just had a session by myself with our T, and he said to tell H that I am taking a temporary hiatus from any contact with MIL. Also that i am to not talk about her with H at all, and to let H indulge himself as much as he wants in going to see her/talk to her etc. The T believes H will come back to reality of who she is by having me out of the equation and being around her more frequently. I'm praying that is the case and doesnt end up with her twisting him against me more.

[Weebles Wobble]

Nanotech-telling him I'm feeling disappointed that he has not stood up for me and saying that we need to renew our boundaries with her is actually the exact catalyst that got us to this point. He went and spent 6 hours at her house "setting the boundaries". Whatever they discussed...she twisted him up and I'm now the cause of all conflict. When he left to go to her house we were on the same page, and now its him and her against me. Shes manipulative as hell.
I fear you are right that now is not the time to let her have full access to him but the T thinks it will wake him up. Our T also said I'm the 'safer' person to love so I get shafted. Grrr.
Everything you said is so true and spot on! The conditional love...its so sick and twisted. I have had 3 of my most trusted people tell me he needs a wake up call as to what life without me if he chooses her would be like and maybe I should take our children and stay with family for a few weeks. I'm not sure how I'm feeling about that option yet. Thank you for sharing...I hate that we all have to deal with this junk.

[nanotech]

I'm sending hugs.
Your T is experienced and qualified to advise, he knows you and your husband best. He's right that you are the 'safer' target at the moment.
I feel your disappointment at your husband's  apparent change of heart after visiting MIL. He doesn't seem to have his own sense of self. All that flip flopping. Apron strings seem firmly in place.
Does he ever have sessions alone with the T? This could help- it may be what the t has in mind anyway.

It's so hard for you.  I understand that you are becoming more and more frustrated. Sorry you're going through all this. Xx