How should I capture and record the verbal abuse

[Prototypian]

Yesterday was a pretty low point.  I keep a journal but I'm not sure it's the correct thing to help me.   I came in from my workout and our 15 yo daughter was late for school and rushed off without her lunch.  To me that's her problem andnit occasionally happens and she has money in her school account to purchase whatever the cafeteria is selling.
The rule is "make your own lunch".   My uOCOPDw was awake and I assumed she was already on the way to her work.  She is in full on politic mode running for local re election and enmeshed in all the trials this has.   The daughter texted both of us asking for someone to bring her a lunch and I'm headed to work and even assumed my spouse wasn't there.   My son (16) was arriving at the house from his morning track workout and we regularly eat breakfast together (his first school period is track so he works out very early then comes home, eats, showers and gets to school by second class period) and we started our usual routine fixing different stuff.  I heard a whimper and found my spouse in the floor of the laundry room crying and I thought something was wrong.   She was bawling about the daughter asking for lunch and that this had ruined her minding as she had planned to work on her campaign.  This is when it started.   An explosive list of epithets about "fxxxing lazy ayy children who can't get their own sh&& together.  They will never be able to have a job and why can't they just do anything for themselves".   It was at high volume and she was in full on martyr mode.   She was going to make that lunch and haul it up to school and not even use a more obvious route of hand it to son who was eventually headed to the same place.   None of this mattered.  Then without warning she attacked our son "you are a lazy a$$ who doesn't care about anything but video game and I called you downstairs five times last night and you never came and now I had to do your laundry because you are a fzzzking lazy sh@@ who doesn't care about anything"

Dear son said "where did this come from". 

She blew up further detailing all the minutes he had played video games the night before and how now she was having to do his laundry instead of working on her campaign and she doesn't understand how we realized such "loser children". 

I said "stop, we don't have to take the lunch to her, she won't starve and he didn't need laundry and we can take away video games"

The anger she then turned to me seemed almost demonic.   She looked at me with a glare and said "YOU always say we can just take stuff away but they won't ever learn.   That's your fxxxing solution is just turn off the internet or take away their keys but if they can't learn to make good choices on their own because they know what's right what have we taught them?   It's fine!   Just treat them like stupid a$$ soldiers mindlessly doing whatever they are told and never realizing why something is important".  I told my son to go upstairs and I would finish breakfast and she lost it "all he does is ask you to make breakfast and give him food and he won't even practice for his SAT prep"

(Side note, our DS 17 is number 19 in his class of 500 at a big high school, is the captain of the high school track and cross country team, is finishing his eagle scout, is one of the three fastest high school runners in the USA and speaks to three division 1 college coaches per week in regular calls about recruiting as a junior.  He was not national merit in the PSAT but was commended and has done his own studying which may or may not be the best way but he manages himself in all of the above activities except for me loving to eat breakfast with him and enjoying the act of cooking and talking)l together)

I had to finish cooking and she alternated between screaming erratically and crying.   I delivered the food to DS upstairs where he was getting ready then jumped on a call for work.   

I never heard from her.  I apologized to dear son as he left and I finsihed work.

She never apologized and I don't have the energy to address her because the conversation is probably set in her brain as being right.

So I wrote it down, time and date.   I didn't record with a phone because there would not  have been time to do so in the moment.  Is this the best thing I have for an eventual discussion with a lawyer and justification for the process?   These outbursts continue to steadily get worse and more violent.   I want to record them for any legal proceedings

[Kat54]

I had thought about recording my ex uNPh.  In the moment it's too hard, as I was usually in shock mode and couldn't form the thought in my brain.
I would keep writing it all down and date it. We never went in front of a judge so recounting anything wasn't the issue. But today when I feel like I either miss him or feel bad about divorcing  I read back those entries and that all quickly goes away.
Continued good luck.

[ChillNow]

I'm so sorry to hear that you and your kids are going through this.

I think you captured that morning perfectly, so my two cents worth is to keep documenting just like that.

Yes, she believes she is right and justified.  It is what counselor Patrick Doyle calls Olympic-level denial.  He further says that the only thing that is going to 'wake up' the person is pain.  The pain of separation, whether temporary or permanent.

If she was going to self-correct, she would have done so by now.  Rather, you wrote that it is getting worse.  For me, the upside of it getting worse was the clarity and certainty that came with it.  (I've been out for 15 months.).  I can tell that you are getting more clarity and certainly as well.  It is painful but necessary for building the determination to do something about it.

Wishing you strength and calmness.  I'm rooting for you.  Especially because I can tell that you're a good person.

[bloomie]

JsinJin - this is a pretty awful way to start the day for you and your dear son. The damage that is being done by the corrosive words and belittling you share your wife is spewing out cannot truly be quantified, but count me as one who knows first hand the pain of experiencing this from an emotionally unstable and volatile parent. It is serious and long term.

Here is some information about the legality of recording a conversation you are party to on the federal and individual state basis (US) that may be helpful to you: https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/

You could also pull out your phone and calmly state you will be recording this for your own protection and that of your children, and then do so. My guess if you choose to do this, every single time... she will blow up even further or shut the fizzle up.

[JustKeepTrying]

jqinjin,

Wow.  So harmful to the kids.  I am so sorry they had to experience that.

I am not a lawyer.  I repeat, I am not a lawyer.  But what I gather you are worried about is custody.  My two cents from Ohio and recent divorce with an older chid is this - the court will take into account who want stay at this age. They are old enough to voice an opinion.

Second - in Ohio - video was preferred to audio yet journal entries were ok.  Talk to your lawyer and see what you need to do.  Get a shark and find out what rights you have.  I assume you are worried since your partner is in politics.  Well, it depends on what you use to file the case with - what reasons you specify for divorce.  This is why you need a shark.

Please get your kids counseling asap.  If they have had to deal this kind of abuse they need outside help.

Also, if you discover you need to record stuff, look at apps and iPhone buttons and see about keeping the phone in a pocket at all times.  There may be short cuts you use.  Practice it so you can get next time.

Good luck.

[pushit]

Sorry, bud.  That's tough stuff.

My quick answer to this:  Check the local laws, and determine whether you are allowed to record without the other party knowing.  If it's allowed, keep your phone in your pocket constantly recording every minute you're in the house.  That's what I did the last three months before I left.  When I came home from work, before I went in the house, it was recording.  If I was alone with the kids and she was gone, it was recording, to defend myself against abuse accusations.

I was extremely worried about my exPDw taking the kids away, because she had nearly convinced everyone around us that I was the problem.  I was also worried about her picking a fight and then calling the police, being the man in the equation I knew my only defense was to have a recording of the events to play to the officers that would respond.

In the end, no one but my lawyer has heard those recordings.  I've only shared the highlights with him.  It was a ton of ammo in my pocket - her berating the kids, manipulating me, me asking her if I need to call the police to intervene, etc.  We never made it to court, but I'll tell you for certain that once my lawyer heard a couple of those he was 120% on my side and fought hard for me.  As you know, we settled in mediation, but my lawyer has said that those recordings would have been valuable if it went further.

You need to consider that your kids are pretty old.  At their ages, they will likely have a voice in where they decide to live.  So in your case, I think it's less about proving abuse through recordings, but will eventually end up with your kids deciding a lot for themselves in terms of who they want to live with.  From the advice I've gotten, once they're about 12-14, the courts will listen to them more than wanting to listen to parents that may or may not have recordings of what is happening.

Stay strong brother!

[Kat54]

I feel bad not just for you but also your kids. My children suffered at the hands of their father emotionally and physically but just know they love him, but I don't think they like him much.
My biggest regret was not leaving sooner as young adults they still live in the house with him. It was their choice but then again emotionally it would of been too much on them dealing with the fall out. They know I'm more level headed and they don't need to worry about me as they must with my very needy and dramatic ex.
Your kids unfortunately will likely deal with the emotional scars and it will shape their future relationships. When you do pull the plug I would think some therapy for all of you would help.

[Free2Bme]

Absolutely determine your local laws, in my state it is legal to record as long as at least ONE person in the room knows that recording going on.  In my experience the phone is not the best choice as you won't get much video without giving it away that you are recording.  The sound quality of phone recorder was bad when my device was in my hip pocket due to movement = scratchy interference, and leaving a phone on record sitting out in plain sight could be easily discovered.   I imagine your spouse is highly invested in protecting her public/political persona and could react badly if she knew.   

IMO, it's best to capture the event without them knowing you are recording, we all know how PD's can pull their s#%! together for appearance sake. 
If it is permissible in your state, I would rig a hidden, high resolution audio/video spy camera in common area(s) of the house to capture the full effect of these rages. 

In my city, one can call for emergency psychiatric evaluation for someone in a mental health crisis.  They send an ambulance to your home and a medical/mental health professional screens the person that is unstable and determines level of care.  One option is you could tell her (at a moment of non-conflict), that because her behavior is unstable that if she has another episode, you will be calling for emergency psych eval.  Of course, you would need to  weigh out pros/cons and timing of taking that step.  I would probably only do this if I felt there was a chance that the person would seek treatment for their problem.

Hopefully, you will be able to have some open one-on-one dialogue with DS and DD about what happened, and that they can open up about how it affects them.

[pushit]

It was mentioned above by Kat54 to keep a journal.  I would also recommend doing that even if you're recording.  I was journaling at the end, mainly so I could match up my audio recordings with what actually happened when.  I knew the journal probably meant little to the court, but it's a mess to try and go through hours of recordings to find that 5 minute nugget of abusive gold.

Due to recent events I've had to revisit my journal and document past instances of rage.  It was extremely helpful to have those notes, because time has faded so many of those specific events I wrote about.  Over the last few days I've also experienced what Kat54 mentioned, I had almost forgotten how bad it was.  When I read my notes about how my ex was berating the kids and I was helpless to do anything about it, I remembered just how bad things were and realized how much better things are now.

[GettingOOTF]

My experience is that anything other than formally documented physical abuse is hard to prove with the courts and honestly, no one seems to care anyway. They focus on the legal side of it and don't get involved in anything else.

Your kids are old enough that they will have a say. For me I had to weight up the damage that was been done by staying and getting proof vs leaving and starting over. Every day I stayed was a day I had to work to recover from.

I've said this many times over the years. I wish I'd left sooner, pushed harder with the divorce and spent the money for a good attorney. At the time I knew nothing about divorce law. I thought I needed his permission to get a divorce and all kinds of other things that weren't true but helped to keep me trapped in the marriage.

This is just me, but when I look back I see that the proof I wanted to gather was just a stalling tactic in the hope that he wouldn't change and I wouldn't have to make any changes to my life.

[xredshoesx]

i agree with what the others have voiced- that finding out what the specific laws are relating to recordings in your state are as well as consulting a really aggressive attorney.

a concern i have for you is that in capturing  all the nuances here your posts may be more identifiable if your uOCOPDw starts looking at things to use against you in a contentious divorce.   please make sure you are doing everything you can to cover your tracks if she has access to the same device(s) you do to post.

[square]

The idea of a secret recording device in the home feels imho like crossing a boundary, other than certain extreme cases (not to say jsinjin's circumstances aren't extreme - they are).

To record an incident seems fine to me. But a permanent hidden camera violates even the children's privacy. When they eventually find out Dad had a device in the kitchen or living room, they will wonder what he captured - and also what other secret devices they didn't know about (in their rooms, bathroom, their phones).

My SIL's phone conversations were recorded by her father when she was a preteen/young teen, and this betrayal is why I feel sensitive about this. 

Again, I do feel like it's totally fair game to selectively capture abuse, or even any interpersonal interaction that may lead to abuse. When your wife is screaming at you, she has no expectation of privacy from you. I do understand the limitations of recording and have no idea how to surmount them.

Just my two cents.

[GettingOOTF]

Everyone has different experiences and views that shape who we are and how we handle situations.

When trying to leave an abusive relationship or when we were in crisis (which you currently are) and being abused (which you currently are) the “right thing” to do is whatever keeps us safe and furthers out goals.

There is a time and a place for arguing the finer points of these actions. At the end of the day you need to keep yourself and your kids physically and legally safe. My recommendation is always to consult with an attorney and a helpline that specializes in these situations. 

We are all here for you and there is much support here. Focus on what you want, what is legal and on keeping yourself  and your kids safe.