Creating a "life or death" perception

[pianissimo]

The topic probably doesn't reflect what I'm about to describe.
I'm in the process of buying a car, and I somehow let my father know. This is partially because it would be so comforting to know his support because it's a big step for me. When I sent him the online advert of the car (a second hand car), he told me to not buy it in a manner as if I'm about to put myself in great danger. The thing is, the guy who is selling the car is a friend's officemate. A few friends also arranged a technician to check the car. So, it was safe. But my father's reaction made me doubt my judgement. He yelled at me (in a way I'm doing something very irrational or dangerous). Later, I felt bad. I actually gave myself some time to not make a decision in that state. But, I had to call my friend's officemate two hours later. So, when I initially called the officemate of my friend, I told him that I wasn't sure about a particular thing about the car, so I would not buy it. Then I let others who helped me know my decision. They were surprised but said I should do what I think should do. Then, I decided to call the technician, who had seen the car, again to ask about the issue my father warned me about, and the technician assured me that the car was fine. Then I called the officemate of my friend again to tell him I raised my concern with the technician, and, as per his opinion, I would like to proceed and buy the car. He was surprisingly understanding.
It's 10.50 pm where I live and this is how my day was.
As a side note I must tell you that my father wants me to buy a car HE thinks suitable. I tried doing this three years ago but found it impossible. He wants me to do everything his way or no way. But, his way doesn't work for me, I feel suffocated in the process.

Have you had similar experiences? What bothers me is that this seems benign (I'm worried about you and I want what's best for you), but I think it's a controlling attitude. It feels like he gaslights me at times I need support by discrediting my approach, my resources and my friends, and if I go his way, I feel incapable of doing anything and isolated. I'm not happy with the way I handled the situation today, I wish I had agreed to buying the car the first time as I had planned all day, but going against "his advice" is emotionally challenging.

I'm so sad and tired. Doing it on your own is so hard. I sometimes need somebody else out there to tell me I'm doing OK. Sometimes, it's just a stressful situation regardless of my mental health issues and I just need some kind of support. The funny thing is, from a rational perspective,  I'm vaguely aware that it's all OK. I just feel worried, but, if I somehow get in touch with my father, he multiplies my worries with a hundred. I'm a human being, I can't always shut this out.

[Poison Ivy]

It sounds as though your father might be "catastrophizing." It's a common behavior in people who have anxiety, depression, or both. I'm not saying that as an excuse for your father; I think he has a responsibility to not convey these negative thoughts and behaviors to you or anyone else.

[Andeza]

Yep! Poison Ivy got it before I could. I lived with similar "OMG" reactions from my uBPDm growing up.

A normal and healthy response from your father would have been this: "Oh you're looking at the year make and model? Ask the tech about x known issue when you get a second, just make sure it's been handled or doesn't affect this particular vehicle. Otherwise sounds good!"

Totally off topic... mechanics forums frequently list commonly known issues, and how to check for them. It's not the end of the world as he would try to have you believe.

[SparkStillLit]

Ohhhh my STARS. UPDH does this very THING and often with the same results in myself and the kids!! 
Then when you try to work around it, as you did, it's *exhausting*. You honestly get to a point where you feel like you can't even think a thought without their "input"!!!
I'm so sorry. I know how difficult it is to overcome this. I still hear updh in my head when I make my own damn decision(we are still together) nattering like crazy, and NONE of that negative crap has EVER happened! I feel so validated each time I do this.

[11JB68]

I got this from my parents mostly updm, and ds and I get it from Updh.
With m and h I think it's likely ocpd and so a need to control us as they feel out of control themselves

[pianissimo]

Thank you all for validation.

Poison Ivy and Andeza, thanks for naming it. I agree with you Andeza. Plus, if he reacted to bad ideas in the way you said, I would prefer to include him in the process. The mechanic is also an acquintence of my friend. I think people in this situation are reliable. I can't think of any better way to do this.

SparkStillLit, it feels like you have already met my father. This is something my mother complains about him. Me and my brother wonder why every step we intend to take leads to "the end of world" according to him. But, for a while, I suspect he intends his overreaction to scare us to do what he tells us. I think what he does is cruel and abusive.

11JB68, I suspect narcissism in my father's case. People close to the family  seem to think he overreacts to situations like this.  They consider it a parent's worry for their family, so they empathise with him. He has people who can help him manage whatever stress he goes through. But, I think he feels entitled to his temper, anger, or his overreaction. It's like "Yes, I worry about my family, and this is why it's OK for me to yell at them and scare them". We end up walking around egg-shells. I think this attitude also fuels the desire to self-destruct. Because, by the time we ask his support, we would be half way through whatever we are doing, and his temper scares us back to the beginning of the path. It's hard to explain how horrible this is. It forces you to abandon your friends (YOUR public image isn't a matter of concern), and self-doubt. In my case, I also feel like finding a hole to live until the apocalypse is over. I mentioned in this forum I have this desire to drop everything and move to the town near work. I now wonder if this desire has a self-destructing aspect to it because I would end up leaving friends I made in the city, and I would end up self-isolating. In terms of friendships, I'm halfway through. Perhaps a part of me is always expecting father's interuption, and figures nothing I have here would last. Perhaps the imminent catastrophy I feel like coming is my father. I think this was how it was in the past. So, I now feel like the desire to self-isolate is linked to my father. This is exactly how I felt after the phone call; drop friends who helped me, drop everything, move to town, save until you are strong enough. I'm not doing this because I think this is the inner child's reaction. I have saved enough, I think that I'm in a good place, and I think buying a car would be good for me. But, when my father calls, the child in me becomes terrified. Fear becomes all  I feel.

[losingmyself]

pianissimo, I listen to Kris Godinez every week, she has a podcast every Sunday afternoon, and does a question and answer on either Monday or Tuesday. This week she touched on exactly what you're talking about, how your brain reacts to seeing people who have always made you feel a certain way. It's very interesting, and I think maybe worth a listen. She talks a lot about family of origin, and how to deal with your reaction to how you grew up.
Good luck to you, and enjoy your new car!!

[JustKeepTrying]

pianissimo,

I experienced this daily with my xOCPDh.  On almost every decision that needed to be made.  I reached a point that I wouldn't even bring up issues with him and let them lie until they erupted and he had to deal with them.  I created such a sense of worthlessness in myself.  I now know that he did gaslight me; put me down and do whatever needed to be in control of the situation. 

Just this morning I had to drive my new RV to the dealer for service.  I am preparing for my retirement and filled with anxiety.  Anxiety that I didn't make a good decision on the purchase, life plan and more.  I know where that anxiety is coming from - decades of my ex's catastrophizing.  Yet, like you, I have the means and a good plan.  It is exhausting to do it by yourself when I wanted to do this with a partner.  Expected and hoped to retire with a partner.  But life had different plans.

So now as I wait for the service and read your post, which is helping me, I realize that I need to reframe this experience as do you.  You bought a car on your own in the face of great adversity.  WOW!  I drove and serviced my RV in the face of great anxiety.  WOW.  We should be proud of our accomplishments and using that fuel our lives.  You did what needed to do - and you did it well.

[Cat of the Canals]

It's hard to explain how horrible this is. It forces you to abandon your friends (YOUR public image isn't a matter of concern), and self-doubt. In my case, I also feel like finding a hole to live until the apocalypse is over. I mentioned in this forum I have this desire to drop everything and move to the town near work. I now wonder if this desire has a self-destructing aspect to it because I would end up leaving friends I made in the city, and I would end up self-isolating. In terms of friendships, I'm halfway through. Perhaps a part of me is always expecting father's interuption, and figures nothing I have here would last. Perhaps the imminent catastrophy I feel like coming is my father. I think this was how it was in the past. So, I now feel like the desire to self-isolate is linked to my father. This is exactly how I felt after the phone call; drop friends who helped me, drop everything, move to town, save until you are strong enough. I'm not doing this because I think this is the inner child's reaction. I have saved enough, I think that I'm in a good place, and I think buying a car would be good for me. But, when my father calls, the child in me becomes terrified. Fear becomes all  I feel.

I was discussing something sort of similar on one of the other subforums a few days ago, and someone referred me to the Stinkin' Thinkin' entry in the Toolbox, which lays out how spending years around a PD person can lead to this sort of negative, twisted thinking. I was shocked at how many items on the list rang true for me. https://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/13/stinkin-thinkin-the-ten-forms-of-twisted-thinking

It also has suggestions for ways to counteract this type of thinking, which I found super helpful.

[pianissimo]

So now as I wait for the service and read your post, which is helping me, I realize that I need to reframe this experience as do you.  You bought a car on your own in the face of great adversity.  WOW!  I drove and serviced my RV in the face of great anxiety.  WOW.  We should be proud of our accomplishments and using that fuel our lives.  You did what needed to do - and you did it well.

Sorry for the late reply. Definitely we should! Doing these kinds of things without help and with a lot anxiety feels impossible sometimes. But, we do it anyways. Plus, I don't know about you, but I make great effort to look like I know what I'm doing, and I'm cool about everything, because I worry if I look anxious, others will become anxious which would make me more anxious. I used to be a bit better at managing these kinds of big decisions. I would allow myself to fail before taking the step. I would tell myself, "OK, this might go wrong, but it won't be the end of the world." Something happened a couple of months ago, and I suddenly became aware of narcissism in people close to me. Then, I lost the part of myself that used to tell me it's going to be OK. Still adjusting to the darker reality!

I listen to Kris Godinez every week, she has a podcast every Sunday afternoon, and does a question and answer on either Monday or Tuesday. This week she touched on exactly what you're talking about, how your brain reacts to seeing people who have always made you feel a certain way. It's very interesting, and I think maybe worth a listen. She talks a lot about family of origin, and how to deal with your reaction to how you grew up.

I checked her content but couldn't find the video she spoke about this issue. I will take another look when I have time. Thanks for recommending the content. It seems helpful. I like how friendly and approachable she sounds in the videos. 


Cat of the Canals , I checked the toolbox after you pointed out. I knew about some forms of stinkin'thinkin but not all of them. These days, I'm in this mental state in which I do all kinds of stinkin'thinking without realizing. Reading about them helps to get myself out of it though. Thanks a lot for the link.

[1footouttadefog]

I can see where for a lot of PD people a car is a life and death matter because for them life is about an image they are projecting.

For others a car is mostly a tool and can be replaced as needed.

If you can afford to spend on and fix a semi major repair then there is little risk in buying a decent used car.  If you live in your last dime all of the time  it's more critical. Either way it's a thing that is being purchased and should not cause anxiety in relationships.

[pianissimo]

A year later, I'm realizing that the incident I describe in this post actually traumatized me at the time.

This is exactly how I felt after the phone call; drop friends who helped me, drop everything, move to town, save until you are strong enough. I'm not doing this because I think this is the inner child's reaction. I have saved enough, I think that I'm in a good place, and I think buying a car would be good for me. But, when my father calls, the child in me becomes terrified. Fear becomes all  I feel.

So, I had a flight response all this time. But, I didn't know it was a flight response. I thought it was a future plan, a life trajectory. And, apparently, the phone call had triggered my flight response. It had scared me, but it seems like I was dissociating from the fear I felt by attributing it to the inner child. I guess, it didn't make sense to me that a phone call with my father would cause so much fear in me. I think that, at the time, I thought it was because buying a car was a big step. This is why I was scared so much. I was "sensitive." Instead of tending to the fear, I went through the motions required by life: went ahead and bought the car. I think that, at the time, any decision regarding the car felt reactive. Was I changing my mind because my father scared me into changing it (a fawn response), or was I buying it because I needed to show him I wasn't scared (fight response)? I bought the car because that felt more natural (everything was set up for the purchase). I now think that, I should have acknowledged the fact that I have an abusive person in my life, and postponed the purchase. I should have tended to the fear, I should have allowed myself to be that terrified little kid for a while. Well, next time...

This realization makes me sad.

[JustKeepTrying]

pianissimo,

Does the car still work?  Do you use it?  If this is true, then it was a good purchase and decision.  You made a good decision based on the info you had at the time.  Don't gaslight yourself about the decision.

But do look at how you are processing emotions.  Do look at how you have developed these responses to the abuse.  Call them out.  Examine then and ask yourself, is this me?  Does this accurately refect myself at this moment in time? 

I have developed these awful responses to childhood trauma and my abusive xOCPDh.  So I set a reminder twice a day on phone - and everyday at 10am and 3pm a note pops up that asks me the following questions - Do I accept myself as I am?   What Am I believing right now?   Is it True?  Who would I be if I let it go?  Can I pivot?   This has helped me really address those feelings that creep in from before.  Address those fight or flight responses that pop up.

I am still proud you bought the car.  I think it is a brave thing to do!

[pianissimo]

Yes, JustKeepTrying, my regret is not related to the car. I think the incident just messed me up in general. If I had noticed, I would have taken better care of myself. Purchase of the car increased my responsibilities. I had to learn how to drive. This possibly didn't help with processing the trauma. The other thing is, I think these kinds of things activate schemas and beliefs enforced by trauma during childhood. And, when you are scared, stressed and busy, it's hard to keep track of them. They all make it worse actually.

Thanks a lot for the encouragement, it means a lot!

[Prototypian]

My spouse does this.  She trusts no one to choose their own stuff worrying that it will be the worst case scenario for everything.   Cars are the ultimate for her.  To the point of anger and end of world type of discussions and death based on rollover statistics

The truth is that
1) cars are not lifetime decisions, they are just slightly expensive, mildly inconvenient tools that help with your commute and travel.
2) manufacturer and government rules, and inspections make them as safe as you can get them considering they drive fast and there are lots of uncontrolled people
3) if you buy one that you like but it sucks from a mechanics or fuel efficiency or any other issue it's your problem not your dad's so who cares.

If a decent mechanic looks at it and says "yeah it seems fine" and the details on recalls don't say "warning, class action lawsuit and explosion hazard, likely to fall apart at high speeds"    you're fine.   She ke advice like "pay a mechanic to do a evaluation of a used car" is good fatherly advice.   Looking and noticing "the jack is missing" or "there is only one key fob" is also good type of help.

Trying to control what you are buying if you compare midsized sedan 1 to midsize sedan 2 and you like the red one and it fits your budget is way too far.   It's a car!   If you were volunteering for a risky clinical study that tested the viability of removing a kidney and replacing it with a novel therapeutic device, as a dad I'd be inclined to ask a few questions.   Same thing if you were intent on marrying an aspiring "small but upcoming heavy metal band member" you had only known for a week.   I would want to get to know the guy a bit.   But it's a CAR!   It's not a durable good, not an investment, it will eventually wear out and be replaced and even if it is a lemon it will work out

[pianissimo]

Thanks Jsinjin. This thread is from last year. At the time, everybody would tell me what you said in the post. Still, it's hard to keep perspective when one of the parents is yelling at the top of their voice to do the opposite. We are wired to assume parents know better.

[sunshine702]

Often we want our parents to be there for us for REAL not their crazymaking Personality disordered Parent.

I had that buying my first house.  It was a lot of money.  On the hook for 30 years.  I had saved for years and looked for 2 years every weekend.  The right place for resale.  Affordabilty.  Mortgage rates.

THIS WAS A BIG LIFE DECISION.

And like you I found RATIONAL HELPFUL advice and guidance from the acquaitances in my life and did it on my own. 

My father wanted to turn down a house "because it was facing the WRONG direction"

Don't beat yourself up.  You made the right decision in the end.  The best for you.  You reached out because you wanted him to be there in that moment.  You tried.  You did your due dillaclgence having it checked.  You now have a great used car FOR YOU.

[pianissimo]

Yes, if we had done it his way, by the time of the purchase, the car would be out of my budget. So, it seems like my way was realistic for my circumstances.

I can't imagine the stress you went through sunshine702. If it came to that, I bet that would be my father's line too.