Rage, stonewalling, Gaslighting?

Fairy Lights · April 07, 2021, 03:28:05 PM

Hi everyone, I haven't posted much... but I read and appreciate others posts as it's validating and comforting to know I'm not alone. I'm pretty certain my dad is uPD, or uNPD, or somewhere in that spectrum. My childhood memories are entirely shadowed by walking on eggshells around dad, and his explosive rages. I feel like I could see him change, like a switch is flicked, and he wouldn't 'see' us (me, my brother and my mum) anymore. The triggers were random, anything from 'he couldn't find his keys' to 'he couldn't get the tv to work' or he stubbed his toe or something small like that (I ended up being like a hawk eye looking for potential 'dangers' like a parent would a toddler).

There was nothing we could do to stop him from throwing, smashing things, yelling. But mum would try to get him to stop, which would turn into a big argument. Perhaps me and my brother would cry, so mum would say to dad "you're upsetting them", but it would just be a huge argument. And somehow dad would turn the tables and make himself out to be the victim, like we were ganging up on him. So then after his rage, he would ignore us for a few days, or a week..sulking? Stonewalling? I remember mum saying to me "I'm in the dog house now". And later, dad would sometimes say "Why do I have to make thing better?" or something along those lines, as if he felt he was the victim and he shouldn't have to apologise, and sometimes it would then swing back to a rage.

It was crazy making. And I've begun wondering if that is a form of gaslighting? I always thought gaslighting was when someone out-right denies something happening. But, although I don't remember dad actively denying things (he may have done to mum, or I just can't remember), but the main thing was: he never acknowledged his rages, intimidation and rudeness, and thought he was the victim. I also read that: a gaslighter often uses the targets 'mistakes' and 'over reactions' to cast themself as the victim. For example, an abuser might scream accusations at a person, until the other party must raise their voice to be heard. The abuser then cuts the conversation short, claiming the other person is being 'out of control/aggressive'.

Has anyone else experienced this too? Is it a subtle form of gaslighting when they flip the situation round to make themselves victims?

SparkStillLit · April 07, 2021, 07:58:23 PM

I belive that is actually DARVO, but have a gawk at the toolbox up top. Also the peck at you till you react has a different name, "reactive abuse" I think it's called.

Cat of the Canals · April 07, 2021, 08:08:40 PM

Quote from: Fairy Lights on April 07, 2021, 03:28:05 PM
But mum would try to get him to stop, which would turn into a big argument. Perhaps me and my brother would cry, so mum would say to dad "you're upsetting them", but it would just be a huge argument. And somehow dad would turn the tables and make himself out to be the victim, like we were ganging up on him.

Yep, this is a pretty textbook example of DARVO: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.

Step 1, he denies that he's done anything.
Step 2, he attacks, insisting that it's all of you ganging up on him.
Step 3, he (the offender) has effectively reversed the order of things so that the actual victims of his rage (you and your family) are now somehow at fault for the entire thing.

And yes, it's considered a form of gaslighting.

The not speaking to you for days on end is called the Silent Treatment. I personally consider the Silent Treatment a form of gaslighting as well, since it's both used as a punishment and meant to elicit feelings of "what did I do?" and "how can I fix it?" among the victim. Again, sort of a subtle form of DARVO. He rages at you and then discards you, and you're expected to run to him and say, "Dad, what's wrong??? What can we do? We're so sorry, please come back!"

In any case, I'm really sorry you went through this. I know exactly what you mean when you say you could see him change, as if a switch was flipped. That alone is crazy-making enough, but the games they play afterward, in which you're left wondering what you did to cause the abuse is so damaging.

Fairy Lights · April 08, 2021, 02:19:47 PM

Hi SparkstillLit and Cat of the Canals

Thanks for your thoughts, I hadn't heard of DARVO, but yes, that its exactly what my dad does! It was a complete nightmare growing up, constantly walking on eggshells, and so confusing.

Cat of the Canals: What you said rings true SO much. I'm sorry you experienced something similar too.

I'm so glad we can help and validate each other here in our road to recovery.

1footouttadefog · April 14, 2021, 07:18:57 AM

My pdh had a few years where he raged. I eventually started not being present for them.

If he gets worked up now I will tell him one of us needs to leave.

If he gets wound up by yelling about news etc, I let him k ow I did nothi g to be yelled at for so he can worry about it himself if he cannot have a normal conversation.

I get accused of never wanting to talk. Oh well.

Lauren17 · April 19, 2021, 08:43:04 AM

Fairy Lights,
I wanted to thank you for posting this. The description of your dad was so close to my experience, we could have grown up in the same house. My mother was often "in the doghouse as well"
Your post helped me to realize and heal hurts from my own childhood.
Thank you.

Fairy Lights · April 24, 2021, 06:24:31 AM

Quote from: Lauren17 on April 19, 2021, 08:43:04 AM
Fairy Lights,
I wanted to thank you for posting this. The description of your dad was so close to my experience, we could have grown up in the same house. My mother was often "in the doghouse as well"
Your post helped me to realize and heal hurts from my own childhood.
Thank you.

Hi Lauren17

I'm so sorry you had a similar experience, but glad my post has helped you realise and heal from your childhood pain. It's oddly comforting to know there are people with similar experiences. It really was a lightbulb moment, a year ago, when I started therapy and realised dad's behaviour was not ok. And then realising, hey! I can't be the ONLY person with this experience. It wasn't just the rages/throwing/smashing things. It was dad's attitude towards mum: she got the brunt of his 'episodes', getting nasty responses after she ran around the house looking for his lost keys/pen/tool. Getting attitude & the silent treatment if she made a mistake eg. map reading, or pointing out that dad jumped a red light, or if she forgot something/did something wrong. And dad's scary behaviour if I did something wrong as a child. Urgh, I could go on....

Wishing you all the best on your healing journey x

SparkStillLit · April 24, 2021, 08:17:27 AM

Updh does not throw or smash, because I drew a line about that long ago and there were ugly consequences for him (which he will never let me forget), but he does rage and do ugly behaviors around mistake making and other such stuff, that we have all dealt with.
I read these things and they are eye opening to me.

1footouttadefog · May 04, 2021, 09:34:13 AM

The traights list in the tool. Box gave me a vocabulary for things I was living with. I was then able to look them up and learm more.

Free2Bme · May 04, 2021, 05:47:57 PM

Hi Fairy Lights,

I am really sorry to hear that you and your mother/siblings had to endure this environment. Everything you describe sounds so much like my former H and how my 4 children grew up, my moms heart goes out to you. I have observed that my kids still tip-toe around their dad and are afraid to get on his bad side. It's hard enough becoming an adult without having to deal with feeling guilted, afraid, discarded or exploited by a parent who is supposed to love/support you.

I divorced when they were 17, 16, 14 & 11. The worst part is watching the effects of my updxh upon my kids (now 22, 21, 19 & 16) effecting them each very differently. I am waiting, hoping and praying they will recover.

If you are willing, could you share insight or anything that your healthier parent (mother) could have done to help you as a young adult, or what has helped you the most? If not, that's ok

~Sending you strength and peace

Boat Babe · May 04, 2021, 06:32:45 PM

Hi Free2Bme. I've been doing a bit of research around your question.

There's a lot of resources out there around the ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) and, specific to you and many of us, the FACTORS OF RESILIENCE. It's all good stuff and you're probably doing a lot of the helpful things already.

Bottom line is openess , honesty and patience with our children.

Free2Bme · May 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM

Thanks for this Boat Babe !

Lauren17 · May 06, 2021, 08:52:56 AM

Quote from: Fairy Lights on April 24, 2021, 06:24:31 AM
Quote from: Lauren17 on April 19, 2021, 08:43:04 AM
Fairy Lights,
I wanted to thank you for posting this. The description of your dad was so close to my experience, we could have grown up in the same house. My mother was often "in the doghouse as well"
Your post helped me to realize and heal hurts from my own childhood.
Thank you.

Hi Lauren17

I'm so sorry you had a similar experience, but glad my post has helped you realise and heal from your childhood pain. It's oddly comforting to know there are people with similar experiences. It really was a lightbulb moment, a year ago, when I started therapy and realised dad's behaviour was not ok. And then realising, hey! I can't be the ONLY person with this experience. It wasn't just the rages/throwing/smashing things. It was dad's attitude towards mum: she got the brunt of his 'episodes', getting nasty responses after she ran around the house looking for his lost keys/pen/tool. Getting attitude & the silent treatment if she made a mistake eg. map reading, or pointing out that dad jumped a red light, or if she forgot something/did something wrong. And dad's scary behaviour if I did something wrong as a child. Urgh, I could go on....

Wishing you all the best on your healing journey x

Fairy Lights, this is all so true.
Dad didn't throw or smash things. But he would slam down his water glass and shove away from the table. And shout.
And, Mom took the brunt of it.
I remember thinking that I would never marry someone who shouts. And I didn't. H very rarely raises his voice. Im just starting to realize that he treats me very much the same way Dad treated Mom. H does it with "teasing" mocking and withholding affection.
I think if he had shouted, I would have realized sooner.
I'm still struggling to accept it. But the cognitive dissonance is one of the first steps toward healing, I think.