He can't help it

[lightworld]

This is what members of my family have always said about F and his terrible behaviour. The rest of that sentence hangs in the air.... "Can't you just keep sucking it up it's not hard surely. After all he is your father"

I know they think I'm a coward and a bad daughter for going NC with F, the 'he can't help it' makes it my fault. Yes he has a disorder (probably), yes he displays classic N behaviours and yes he probably can't help himself but to me he's dangerous to my mental health. To my family it's like they are saying F can walk all over everyone, bully and abuse them because it's not his fault and making a fuss about it (or telling the truth) is not acceptable, we should all just put up with it. Anyone else get this?

[Escapedscapegoat]

Hello lightworld. I'm sorry you're feeling pressure to ignore the evidence of your ears and eyes. I have a very similar story, abusive, rageful, empathyless father, and an older sibling who told me to suck it up for years. The one I used to get was 'just ignore him'. For years it worked, decades until I was in my fourtyeighth year. I'm not sure why it happened, maybe age and wisdom but it dawned on me that if someone was treating my f the way he treated me I would want him to get away from it. This clarity helped me climb out from the guilt. I truly would not expect him to tolerate being abused, and I now (16 months NC) extend that compassion to myself. I get a few wobbles now and again (getting less and less all the time)but I know that I am merely extending the compassion I had for him to myself now and realistically how can anyone who claims to hold me as important as my f expect me to put myself in harms way without inadvertently saying they'd expect f to tolerate abuse.

If your nc is a new position it'll be a bumpy ride but love and truth will guide you through.

Peace and love

[lightworld]

Thank you Escapedscapegoat I am realising that NC has been the best thing for me. I sometimes feel frustration that F and family will never know or recognise why I did it but I need to accept that. Work in progress 

[ArmadilloKate]

Yes get/got that all the time. Was trained for it, by people with the best intentions who meant the world to me. She's your mom. Be nice. Just be there for her. She has no one else.  She can't help it. Shes doing the best she can.

Now I'm having a heck of a time with the guilt trying to protect myself from the serious damage inflicted by trying to do those things. Fuck it, you know?

[moglow]

My personal "s/he can't help it" scale:
Do these defenders also talk about how kind, compassionate, helpful he is? How they enjoy his company and spend a lot of time with him, he's just having a bad day/hard time "right now"? I.e. they've experienced better - He CAN help it. If he's like mine he can turn it on and off like a faucet, and DOES.

[Cat of the Canals]

What moglow said. When it comes to uPD mom, she can absolutely help it, because she ONLY behaves abusively behind closed doors.

I don't think that people who say this are being very sincere, anyway. Like you said, the subtext of this kind of comment is, "So can't you just be the bigger person?" And that kind of logic only makes sense with children, who truly can't help it.

Even if you could make a case that someone "couldn't help it," when has that ever meant turning a blind eye to their harmful behavior? If your dog has a tendency to bite, do you just let it chomp on the neighbor and say, "He can't help it?" No. You put a muzzle on it, and hire a trainer, and keep it away from strangers until you know it's safe.

[Andeza]

"So can't you just be the bigger person?" I'm terrible... "No, I just can't help it!" All right, I got it out of my system, but I hope nobody ever says that to me because I don't let things like that slide.

Really though, toddlers can't help doing certain things, like reacting poorly to something. Adults absolutely have that ability, to choose how they will and will not act, and it's true that the disordered individual frequently has an "On/Off" switch at their command depending entirely on who they're talking to. The fact that they treat others so well and turn around and heap abuse on us is just inexcusable. That's like saying in a roundabout way it's not okay to abuse people that you want to think highly of you, or be impressed with you, but it's absolutely fine to abuse your own flesh and blood because they're family. It's not okay.

[lightworld]

Even if you could make a case that someone "couldn't help it," when has that ever meant turning a blind eye to their harmful behavior? If your dog has a tendency to bite, do you just let it chomp on the neighbor and say, "He can't help it?" No. You put a muzzle on it, and hire a trainer, and keep it away from strangers until you know it's safe.

Yes you are so right there CotC. 

"So can't you just be the bigger person?" I'm terrible... "No, I just can't help it!"

Love it Andeza 

He CAN help it. If he's like mine he can turn it on and off like a faucet, and DOES.

Yes tota!ly Moglow he does behave very differently (i.e.badly) with me and just !oves to get a reaction. Also he will use any information I give him against me which, at the risk of sounding like someone out of Law and Order,  shows premeditation.

Now I'm having a heck of a time with the guilt trying to protect myself from the serious damage inflicted by trying to do those things. Fuck it, you know?

AK - yes why on earth should we feel guilty when it's their bad behaviour, it's crazy isn't it? 

[blues_cruise]

My personal "s/he can't help it" scale:
Do these defenders also talk about how kind, compassionate, helpful he is? How they enjoy his company and spend a lot of time with him, he's just having a bad day/hard time "right now"? I.e. they've experienced better - He CAN help it. If he's like mine he can turn it on and off like a faucet, and DOES.

Exactly, well said! Anyone with a personality disorder can have moments of self awareness and choose to do the right thing, however most instead choose the easier path (i.e. take their problems out on other people) and delude themselves that they are entitled to do so or "can't help it". There are people with cluster B personality disorders in the world who acknowledge that they should change and seek treatment. I've seen comments elsewhere on the internet made by people diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder who admit that they are unable to feel emotional empathy towards others, but who have done the right thing and chosen to seek help to improve their cognitive empathy so that they can get along with other people.

The belief that someone with a personality disorder is unable to help themselves is just wrong in my opinion. It's classic enabler mentality and helps no-one, least of all the person with a personality disorder who just continues hurting themselves and those around them.

[lightworld]

Yes blues_cruise giving disordered people licence to behave however they want regardless of the consequences for others is deeply enabling and no good for anyone but it seems to be a common response particularly to Ns.

I freely admit I was enmeshed with PD M and F for decades and still can't work out why except that I was trained from an early age and needed to accept their behaviour as a child in order to survive and it somehow carried on throughout my adulthood.  What I still find odd is that even though family members can see how badly be behaves and it's effect on others, they still let it pass for 'normal'and anyone not accepting it is being 'too sensitive'.

Not that it bothers me too much these days but just recently F has been telling people that my NC is because I hold grudges  So it's my fault and they all agree on that. Nothing whatsoever to do with F's appalling behaviour then. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

If you are holding a grudge, there is presumably a reason. But even that much acknowledgment of your pint of view is disappeared. I wonder why you couldn't work it out.

[MarlenaEve]

This is what members of my family have always said about F and his terrible behaviour. The rest of that sentence hangs in the air.... "Can't you just keep sucking it up it's not hard surely. After all he is your father"

I know they think I'm a coward and a bad daughter for going NC with F, the 'he can't help it' makes it my fault. Yes he has a disorder (probably), yes he displays classic N behaviours and yes he probably can't help himself but to me he's dangerous to my mental health. To my family it's like they are saying F can walk all over everyone, bully and abuse them because it's not his fault and making a fuss about it (or telling the truth) is not acceptable, we should all just put up with it. Anyone else get this?

Definitely! I can totally get this.
That is one big reason I decided to cut ties. I have been fed with phrases like "All families are dysfunctional", "But they are your parents", "You got to accept your NM for who she is" bla bla.

Well no! I don't have to accept anyone who makes me feel uncomfortable, threatened, suppressed, or abused. I couldn't care less that they are my family.