PD mother wants to visit

[Ilia]

Hi all,

Longtime lurker here but I'm still growing my knowledge of terms. My PD mother has texted stating that she wants to visit this weekend and asked what time works for me. This is something that she pulls with my sister constantly, where she just texts "when can I come over this weekend?" assuming that a) we have the time and b) that her presence is wanted. Recently when my sister stopped responding she just showed up to her house unannounced. We knew it was just a matter of time before she started to pull this on us.

For some context, I recently had a baby. Since my mother believes that the pandemic is a hoax and that we are all "living in fear" (and her actions follow this belief where she continues to have high contact with the public, gets her nails done regularly, etc), she has only met my child in person in an outdoor setting twice, she has not held her. I feel guilty about that. I wish I had a mother that was a grounded and stable person that I would feel comfortable around, let alone hold my child.

Additional context: we tried a family intervention last fall where my sister and I shared how her beliefs and behaviors have affected us (belief in QAnon, pandemic, that BLM is a farce when my sister's children are mixed race and present as black). Of course, this just devolved into her arguing why she is right. I tried to set a boundary that if she didn't seek therapy that I would have to not have has much contact with her. Of course, the very next day she started bombarding me with texts asking about hiking gear (she has never hiked in her life, but this is one superficial thing that she knows about me-- I think this was her attempt at mirroring to draw me back in). Since that incident I have tried to be grey rock, but it was really hard when I was going through some things with my pregnancy and I couldn't turn to her for support. Every phone call with her felt like an interrogation so she could appear to be interested in my pregnancy.

Once I had my baby the regular phone calls resumed, which drove me absolutely nuts. Here I was sleep-deprived and constantly holding a baby and she would call to "check in" whenever it was convenient for her, despite how many times I told her that I literally didn't have free hand to answer the phone and that if she texts I could answer her when I had a free moment.

Then a couple months ago when I did actually pick up the call, after a grey-rock convo she suddenly said that she needed to apologize for not being in contact so much during my pregnancy. She started crying and saying how she was so sorry, and she was grieving our relationship and so didn't call as much. I felt the urge to respond with my usual "no, it's okay!" to make her feel better but I stopped myself. I reminded her that I had actually asked for less contact and her tone immediately changed to a colder more composed one.

Then we had an incident where she asked to "drop off some stuff" one day, which I agreed to thinking it would be like every other time people have dropped off items during post partum: no or little contact, maybe saying a brief hello frome 6 feet away. Turns out she was expecting to visit and even asked if she could come inside, to which I said no and that I had to get the baby down for a nap. I sent a follow up text afterwards to say that we should clarify next time whether or not it's a visit, to which she responded with a very terse "Okay." (when she's happy or pleased with my behavior in text she responds with multiple happy emojis in every text).

Sorry, long post. All this to say I am very conflicted about what to do. My first reaction is to give in and allow a visit to get it over with (outdoors, mask on at all times, no holding the baby), but I am very afraid of setting up the pattern that she has with my sister where she invites herself over every weekend to see her grandkids. Also feeling some preparatory guilt over "depriving her of her grandchild" which she hasn't said yet, but I expect her to.

[moglow]

Pushy is as pushy does and I would imagine that's all one big fat pain in the butt, not knowing which way she'll go. You may need to set some hard boundaries and know that you'll get some pushback. That doesn't mean you stop, or that she won't push you harder and even possibly enlist others to help her. Not.Your.Stuff. You have a family to consider and need to do what you feel is best - she doesn't have to agree with your choices.

Try and remember you really do have control over what and how much contact you have with her. Drop off means just that, it's not and never will be a visit for most of us - and really, what's she needing to drop off anyway? Phone calls are interfering with your routine and sleep? Set her calls/texts to silent. She shows up unannounced and uninvited? Don't answer the door. She doesn't know you're not taking a much needed long hot shower and didn't hear the door. [If she has a key and lets herself in anyway? Change the locks and forget to give her a new one.] Really - I've done it. It's awkward but there you are.

My point - she doesn't get to push in just because she's your mother. No one does. A therapist pointed out to me years ago what would have been my response had anyone else treated me as mother does. I wouldn't put up with it! "Why does she get a free pass just because she's your mother...?" Ummmmm. Didn't really have a good answer, it really opened my eyes!

[MarlenaEve]

It's tough, I understand you. Your mother can't accept the word "no", it's not in her vocabulary. Boundaries will not work much but do try to enforce them. Every narc parent is different so maybe yours will be more inclined to accept boundaries.

If I just had a child I'd also be worried about PD mom visiting me-I've read your post on her conspiracy thinking and how reckless she is. This is huge but, I think in the same time it may be a good opportunity for you to choose between your peace of mind, comfort and health and the desires and feelings of your mother. This is a good time to take a stand and choose. I know it is hard and she will turn into a toddler when she's told no but I don't see any other way here. You either let her walk all over your home and do whatever she wants and, unfortunately, this means she'll risk your health (and your family's as well) or take a stand and go through the painful emotions of cutting yourself out of her life.

The latter is a wonderful process, one I've gone through myself. It made so happy and so at peace. Like I can finally love myself and be free of those who want only the worst for me. Taking a stand and being your own person with your wants, needs and own opinions will make your mom crazy, will set her on fire. But that's a normal PD reaction to a child who suddenly decides to step out of their fixed family role.

You may need a counselor to help you here or you can write to us here. Anyway, take the first step and do what feels good, right and loving to you, your baby and your family of choice. Your mother is not a part of your family of choice, you and your baby are.

Hope it helps.

[Cat of the Canals]

My first reaction is to give in and allow a visit to get it over with (outdoors, mask on at all times, no holding the baby), but I am very afraid of setting up the pattern that she has with my sister where she invites herself over every weekend to see her grandkids. Also feeling some preparatory guilt over "depriving her of her grandchild" which she hasn't said yet, but I expect her to.

Your mother sounds like a carbon copy of my uPD MIL. I can tell you from experience that there is no "getting it over with." Anything you give won't be enough. She will ALWAYS expect more, whether that means more frequent visits, longer visits, "why don't you ever come visit ME," "why can't I hold the baby," etc. Stop thinking you will ever be able to appease her. You won't. PDs are a bottomless pit of always wanting more.

The good news is, the solution is pretty simple: boundaries. And you sound like you already have a pretty good grasp on that, judging by your response to the time "dropping something off" turned into her expecting a full-blown visit.

The bad news is, PDs don't usually react well to boundaries. Which you've also discovered, judging by the sudden coldness and terseness you've received from her as a response.

One of my favorite pieces of boundary advice that I repeat to myself often is this: get comfortable being uncomfortable. You're probably going to get twinges of feeling rude or selfish or guilty or overly blunt. OH WELL. Take three slow, deep breaths, remind yourself that you are only asking for basic respect and decency, and move on.

If you're worried about the "what time can I come over" becoming a pattern, I'd make it a rule to say no. After all, it's pretty rude of her to invite herself over with no concern for your schedule. Don't reward the behavior! Tell her this weekend won't work, and you'll have to figure out another time when your schedule isn't full. Rinse and repeat as often as necessary.

If she shows up unannounced, tell her she's chosen a very bad time, and you're simply too busy right now (even if busy=catching up on your favorite TV show), and that's why she really has to schedule visits with you instead of showing up with no notice.

Prepare to be a broken record about any and all boundaries. Or for her to respect it briefly and then figure out a way to squeeze under, over, or around it.

And if/when she complains about a particular boundary, the examples of Medium Chill responses in the Toolbox are excellent. I literally printed it out and stuck it to my refrigerator.  https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/medium-chill

[Lisa]

I agree with Cat based on my very similar experiences, there will never be any getting it over with, it just won't happen, it's never enough and quite often every little bit we give in just leaves them wanting more.  My Mom also says "choose a date" and "tell me what time", these can bring on intense feelings of anxiety for me because they are written as though I have no choice.  She has been unable to respect my boundaries and has shown up at my house and refuses to leave.  Recently I've just stopped responding when she demands that I tell her what time or what day she can visit.  I've been really enjoying Nedra Tawwab on instagram, she is a therapist who talks about boundaries and recently came out with a book.

[ArmadilloKate]

On your terms, when you are ready. You decide.

[Fortuna]

Sounds like she's the wind trying to wear your rock down to a canyon. You may want to sit down with your SO and talk ablout the boundaries you want, not just for her but for all possible visitors in your life.

If she is not vaccinated, you could go a real easy route of absolutely no visits until she is 100% vaccinated two shots and two weeks out. Any call text or other whine/yell/pout about it respond "with you know what you need to do. See you when you're vaccinated"
If she's gone Qanon it might be a good long while. Plus if you use this for others, it keeps your little ones safe as they can get.

For the impromptu inviting her self over asking for a time. You can always say "can't busy."  If she presses you don't NEED to go into detail. "Sorry, we're not available this weekend." or "I'll have to check and get back to you." (you don't need to get back with her)

If she shows up don't let her in. State you boundary of how people are supposed to come into your home. They need to find a time that works for you and accept it if it doesn't. They need to show up with x time of the time you want them to show up and leave within the time frame you set. If they show up too early/too late/uninvited send them away. Repeat ad naseum. If they pitch a fit, let them know police can be called, and call if needed.

If she's calling non stop put the phone on do not disturb so you can get a good nap in, I'm sure you could use it. If she throws a texting/phone call kind of fit, block her for a day or two to get some rest.

Good luck, the you never visit enough thing was strong with my uPD mom, so I understand the obligation hanging in the air.