Struggling to pull trigger

[bat123]

I'm really struggling.  I have nowhere to go for support except this board, so I'm just putting it all out there. I announced my intention to him a few days ago to begin the mediation process.  I have an email drafted, but not sent, to arrange an appointment.  We had a consultation last year with this person, so I know how it all works and I expect it would move quickly once I contact him.  I just can't will myself to do it.  I'm 25 years in, with two 20-something year olds and a high schooler.  I have a good job and will not have a problem being financially independent.    I'm competent and smart.  If someone were to tell me that they had endured the behaviors that I've endured, I'd tell them to run and not look back.  But I can't convince myself to do it.  I've been researching narcissistic abuse constantly, though I'm well-versed in it by this point.  It's as if I'm doubting now that it's really abuse and I need to convince myself.  I'm ridiculously googling things like "do women regret their divorces" in the hopes of reassuring myself I won't.   I'm obsessively reading the hundreds of pages worth of documentation I've written over the past several years, to remind myself the abuse has been real.   But nothing is working. Two days ago, while berating and interrogating me and pressuring me to explain a remark that I'd made, he said to me, calmly "this will not end.  Until you answer my question, this will never end."  I know he's right!   It'll never end unless I leave.  I'm just so afraid of making a life altering decision like this.   It's been such a mixed bag of good and bad that I'm afraid I'll regret leaving.  Sure, I'll always be monitoring his moods, waiting for the other shoe to drop.  But he will also often walk in the door happily greeting us and singing a silly song.  He'll throw the past in my face any chance he gets.  He'll buy me flowers for every birthday and Valentines Day.  He'll criticize my family routinely.  He'll continue to tell me I'm weak.  We will take wonderful family vacations.  He'll occasionally act physically threatening.  He"ll accuse my of lying almost every time we fight.  He'll beam and heartily praise me when I make a great meal.  A few times a year he'll push me or restrain me.  He'll get me great Christmas gifts.  I'll always check myself to make sure I don't say something to trigger him.   I know you all have been there, or are there.  Just knowing that people can relate to this means the world.

[JustKeepTrying]

Dear bat123,

I can't tell you what to do.  You sound smart, kind and a person I would love to have a cup of coffee with.  All I can do is tell you my story and you take what you will.

I was 32 years in with two older 20's and a high schooler.  I can certainly identify.  There would periods of blissful happiness and then the physical intimidation or he would freeze me out.  FInancial frugality that you would not believe.  So many highs and lows that kept me in the marriage for all that time.  I tried.  I read everything.  Marriage counseling three times.  I really tried.

I do not work - I am disabled.  You can say that I am the picture of the book and concept - The Body Keeps Score.  Constant eggshells led to PTSD, daily seizures and bouts of aphasia, and eventually stage iv cancer.  Is my cancer a result of the stress?  My docs say it is certainly a possibility because it is not genetic.  I also have many other physical issues that some days ground me.

That being said, I have not had a seizure in over a year - until last night.  I may have to face my OCPDxh in the next day or two and the stress caused a full-blown panic attack and a night of seizures.  But here is the glimmer of hope that I hope you see in all of this mess - A year seizure-free was a blessing.  And knowing that these meetings will be few and far between gives me the prospect of a great future.  Even in all this pandemic mess, I am so much happier.  So much more at peace.  Yes, my older DDs are struggling with it and I didn't think they would.  Yes, my DS was thrown out of the house and my xh has devolved even further.  But I know that in time, with therapy, we will emerge stronger for all of it.

You are smart.  You know the score.  But only you can know in your heart and soul what you should do.  Meditate.  Pray.  Listen to that quiet voice that gets drowned out by the noise.  You will find your answer there and all will shift and you will know.  I won't judge if you stay.  I am not you.  All I know is that it was the right decision for me.  I knew it with all the core of my being and once that shift occurred, I couldn't look back.  Up until that shift I thought about divorce a million times and there was always a reason to stay. 

[bat123]

Thank you, JustKeep.  Your words help so much.  I'm sorry for your health problems, but it's good to hear you've had some peace in your life finally.  I'm sorry your kids are having difficulties with everything.  I am worried for my kids.  My older son struggles with anxiety and depression.  My husband blames me, says I was not the kind of parent our son needed and that I babied him instead of making him strong.  My son feels controlled and unseen by his dad, and has lots of anger toward him.  Of all the kids, he's suffered the most over the dynamics in the house.  I have no idea how my kids will react if I leave.  For years, family has been my balm.  As difficult as my spouse is, I've absolutely lived for our family activities.  No matter how bad my husband treats me, we prioritize family activities.  As I analyze it, though, there's a manipulative quality to it.  He could give me the silent treatment for days, but then insist on a family outing where I have to act like nothing is wrong.  He has made it very clear that if we divorce he will buy me out of my share of the house and stay in the house.  It will represent so much loss for me.  I will be abandoning my home and family.  I try to remind myself, though, that my kids would finally get to see me removing myself from an unhealthy relationship.  That has to mean something.

[notrightinthehead]

I am three years out now.  I avoided making the decision but I became absolutely useless as supply,  living in another country half of the year or longer with hardly any contact. I used a lot of the tools from the toolbox when interacting with him,  depriving him of the joy to have a blow up with me. I also stopped portraying the happy family when we went anywhere - I became more honest and was no longer silent about the abuse.
Interestingly, he just as elegantly slipped in the role of the victim as he had assumed the perpetrator.
Eventually he registered on dating sites and found himself a new supply within 4 month, then told me to move out of our family home.  Which I did.

The first year was really horrible. First I was frozen, then I had mood swings between happiness and despair. I woke up far too many nights and could not go back to sleep because of the rage I felt. Rage about how he had treated me. Rage at myself for letting him.  I felt terrified about what was happening to me and would I ever feel  normal again. I removed anybody who was in contact with him from my life - therefore I lost my social network. I asked my adult kids to not pass on any information either way.  They have their own issues, I have encouraged them to get therapy, and I have apologized repeatedly for my part, with all the enabling I have done. They struggle sometimes but seem resilient. We had long talks about their childhoods - episodes that frightened or disturbed them - what happened and what should have happened in a healthy family.

Three years later, I still go into a downward spiral when there is any contact with him,  even if it is only via lawyers. I have his voice in my head and the critical comment he would make if he was here.  But it is not so important anymore. And my recovery time is getting shorter. I have made a life for myself. I have some new acquaintances and they treat me with respect. The kids and I had a wonderful Christmas last year, in spite of Corona. Harmonious, loving, joyful. No big presents like their father would make, for which we had to show much much gratitude, just little things and I felt so happy. I actually thought it was the best Christmas ever.

So my message to you is,  you will have a hard time whether you stay or leave.  That abuse takes a toll on you and just because it stops does not mean you will be fine straight away. It helps to get support either way, a self help group, therapy (but be careful with the choice of therapist). You know how your life is now.  You can choose now how your future will be. And you do not have to make a decision right now, maybe just start giving yourself options.

[bat123]

Thank you for sharing your story, Notright.  It helps to lean what other people have done and to have some role models I can look to for the different options I have.  This experience can be so isolating, especially when there's an unwritten rule that you cannot speak of your relationship with anyone. I still don't know what I'm going to do.  But I do know that if I stay for now, I will do so secure in my understanding that I'm the healthy one, and that he is just not capable of giving me unconditional love.   It is somewhat new for me to consistently think this way, and it's a step in the right direction, at least.

[Poison Ivy]

I have been divorced for almost 5 years. Our two children were adults by the time I filed for the divorce. I get along relatively well with my ex-husband, and our marriage was not nearly as difficult as some that I read about here. My ex and I are able to do things together (e.g., him staying at the house when our children visit) without significant friction. Although I still sometimes regret not having a better marriage, I have no regrets about getting the divorce.

[Kat54]

It's such a hard decision and wondering can You live with the way things are?
It took me about 3 years to get there and while I miss my ex at times because he was funny and the life of the party. Bought me flowers, always knew the right outfits to buy me. We had no deep connection and it finally ate away at our marriage. Plus many of what you describe in your marriage mine also. I was actually afraid of him after the time he was enraged about something and grabbed me by the arm and shook me so hard. He left a bruise and after that I became cautious around him. Plus I got worn down from being barked and yelled at constantly, nothing was ever right.
Though 1 year out from our divorce, not an ounce of regret. And last time I saw him we got along well and I have hopes we can continue that.
It's a very hard process so you have to be prepared for that but the other side is great.

[Simon]

While my experience is a fraction of yours in terms of time and commitments, I can definitely relate to the cognitive dissonance that this sort of abuse can create afterwards.

Even though I was lucky not to get snared with my exBPD girlfriend, after all the things that she put me through (I was loved the first few months, hated after that, cheated on me, occasionally treating me nice now and again to keep me hooked while she looked for a replacement, etc), and all the things I did for her that she didn't appreciate (I helped her off her the drink, supported some very dark days for her, treated her very well, etc), I still occasionally find myself wondering if it was abuse too.
It clearly was, and the journals I secretly kept during all of that relationship help me see this when I need a reality check, but it still amazes me that I can doubt it.

You mention that he sometimes gets physical with you, tells you that this won't end until you answer, berates you, criticises your family, calls you weak, etc, and then uses intermittent reinforcement to keep you in place by doing something nice for you occasionally.
Does he apologise after he's treated you badly?
If he does, does he then treat you that way again at a later date?
Does he admit he's wrong eventually, or is he always right in his mind, and will do whatever he has to to make you back down?
Sounds like the guy has no respect for you at all.
How would he react if you treated him this way?
If you showed him no respect?

Like someone has already said, we can't tell you what to do.
But he's clearly mentally and emotionally abusive, with a physical threat, and he's aware of what he's doing.

Would you be happy to see your kids settle down with someone who was abusive?
Chances are, if they've grown up with an abusive parent, they'll either be abusive themselves, or suffer from co-dependence and be attracted to people who will abuse them, so I'd keep an eye on them.

Bottom line is, there is no excuse for abuse, and it shouldn't be part of our society, let alone our relationships.
I wish you luck in whatever you do.
It looks like some of the people who've posted in this thread have had very similar circumstances to yours, and have managed to get out, so I hope you can take some comfort from them.
There is a way out of this, but it won't be easy and will take some time, and a lot of planning.
But you seem smart and more than capable of doing it.

Whatever you decide, please don't make excuses for abuse.
If you decide to stay, realise that they are not capable of changing, and that you are going to continue to be abused.
The reason I say this is because, although they are to blame for treating us like this, we are to blame for accepting it, once we are aware that we are being abused, and then we are to blame for normalizing it.

Good luck.

[oak_tree]

I try to remind myself, though, that my kids would finally get to see me removing myself from an unhealthy relationship.  That has to mean something.

I think that's key.  My SO's kids got to see him stand up for himself and stop the unacceptable treatment he was enduring. They might not articulate it that way, but they still saw/see it. And now they get to see what a loving relationship actually looks like. But I know that doesn't make it an easy decision. It's just something positive to focus on when things are rough.
Good luck and be well. You're not alone.

[GettingOOTF]

Leaving is hard. I agonized over it for years. I look back on that time and I don't recognize who I was. I cannot see what I was so afraid of but at the time I was paralyzed.

One thing (out of many) that I came to see is that if I hadn't married my ex I would have married someone exactly like him. It was never him, it was always me. I am ashamed of how I let him treat me, how little I thought of myself. I look back on things that I thought were "normal" and it blows my mind that I put up with all of that. That I felt bad for him and accepted such behavior.

No one can say anything that will help you to make a move. You need to find the motivation yourself. One day I simply had enough. Something clicked for me and I left. I had no plan, I had no friends or family to support me. I was 100% on my own, but I woke up one day and knew I couldn't continue in the marriage.

My life now is nothing like my life would have been had I stayed. I could write a book about all the awful, unacceptable things I thought were "normal" that I now see we're actually abuse and symptoms of my low self esteem and codependency.

No one can tell you what to do, but given my experience of both being married to a PD and leaving and starting a new life you couldn't pay me enough money to advise anyone to stay.

[bat123]

Thanks for your feedback, everyone.  It means a lot!  He is out of town for a few days and I'm just trying to care for myself and take some time out.  It's nice to spend some time just focusing on myself!

[ploughthrough2021]

I can totally identify with your situation. I have been with my stbxw with uNPD for 30 years (25 of which married).  We have a 19, 17 and 15 year old kids. My take on this is that if you ever want to be free and happy, you need to take the leap.  From this Forum, I am convinced that life is better once you leave,  Good luck