How to ruin a wonderful week in the last two minutes

Sneezy · May 24, 2021, 10:27:58 AM

This past week is the perfect definition of who my mother is. Mom had a very busy week. Lunch out with friends, another outing with her senior living group, several game nights and other activities at senior living and a meeting or two about future activities. I hardly talked to her as she was so busy.

Yesterday was Sunday and I picked her up mid-afternoon, with freshly baked banana bread for her, and took her shopping. Waited while she tried on clothes and then she bought a couple things. Took her grocery shopping. Came back to my house where we ordered her favorite take-out for dinner and watched her favorite TV show. DH and DS joined us and were attentive and asked her a lot of questions. I wrapped up the leftovers for her and we took mom back to her apartment. We had been together for nearly six hours. As she was putting the key into her apartment door, she let loose with "it's too quiet here," and "I'm soooo lonely," and "I shouldn't have moved here."

I think in mom's mind, it's like the past week and even our full day together no longer mattered. The only thing that mattered was making sure that I knew how lonely and miserable she was. Because at some level, maybe she's afraid I'll desert her if I don't understand how miserable she is? I don't know if that's what she's thinking or if it's something else. It's interesting that she saved all her misery for me, while DH was waiting outside in the car. She doesn't go on like this around others.

A few years ago, this kind of behavior from mom would make me double down and try even harder to make her happy. But now, it just makes me angry. She is smart enough to know that I'm not going to desert her, and she should also realize that she has a busy and active life, and her complaints just don't ring true. Does she really think I'm that easy to manipulate? I find her behavior towards me insulting. But also, I have no idea how to stop it or even how I should react to it. I suppose I can't stop it and will just have to severely limit my time alone with her and also keep my medium chill going. But it is infuriating at times.

Andeza · May 24, 2021, 12:21:54 PM

Blegh. I'm sorry you got the "lonely" card dumped on you. She just had to take all that good and turn it on its head. Of course, to get the best moment for that was as she was leaving you for the day.

I think that due to the emotional disregulation, they are so in the moment they don't balance the alone time with all the things that have been done. They don't take contentment from the test of the day, only the here and now matters.

Sneezy · May 24, 2021, 12:42:25 PM

Quote from: Andeza on May 24, 2021, 12:21:54 PM
they are so in the moment

Exactly! Both my mom and my uHMIL are similar in that regard. It's all about "what have you done for me lately?" To some extent, my DH and DS are "in the moment" kind of people, much more than DD and I are. DH and DS don't tend to dwell on the past or worry so much about the future. But they don't carry that to the extremes of my mom and MIL. Mom and MIL seem to very easily forget anything good that happened in the past, and they don't seem to think about the future consequences of what they say and do. It's all about how they feel, here and now, in this very moment in time. And they don't hesitate to let it all out - as you say, there's no emotional regulation.

wisingup · May 24, 2021, 01:45:11 PM

Ugh, this is so familiar!

QuoteBecause at some level, maybe she's afraid I'll desert her if I don't understand how miserable she is?

I think this is part of it for sure. My own ubpdh is usually good and worked up about something when she calls me. It's like she thinks just calls to say hi & what's new then I won't take her seriously & will get off the phone quickly. If she's having a freak-out over something she's more likely to get the attention she wants.

Unfortunately, with behavior like your mom's & mine they are just shooting themselves in the foot & making it less likely that people will want to spend time with them.

Also, I'm realizing that when I try to do a nice thing for her, now it becomes expected & somehow doesn't "count" as a nice thing the next time. It's just what I'm supposed to do.

bloomie · May 27, 2021, 09:14:19 AM

Quote from: SneezyYesterday was Sunday and I picked her up mid-afternoon, with freshly baked banana bread for her, and took her shopping. Waited while she tried on clothes and then she bought a couple things. Took her grocery shopping. Came back to my house where we ordered her favorite take-out for dinner and watched her favorite TV show. DH and DS joined us and were attentive and asked her a lot of questions. I wrapped up the leftovers for her and we took mom back to her apartment. We had been together for nearly six hours. As she was putting the key into her apartment door, she let loose with "it's too quiet here," and "I'm soooo lonely," and "I shouldn't have moved here."

We can spin and spin trying to understand what is behind this and even come up with the possibility that our loved one is fearing they will be deserted... which may or may not be true and if it is what is behind this behavior their emotions are theirs to manage.

What this actually is from what you are sharing here is an appalling lack of gratitude and appreciation on your mother's side of the street.

Sneezy, when was the last time someone picked you up with warm banana bread as a welcome (yum! so thoughtful and kind btw) and carted you around to your favorite places and made you your favorite foods and dedicated 6 hours of their day to you and you alone? I can say for myself... um, maybe never!

A response to what comes across as a lack of good manners and appreciation from your mother at the ending of your time together could have been: "Your welcome for the lovely day mom." or "You are so fortunate to have family that loves you and such a great place to live." Or stone cold silence.

Then a sharp pivot and you are out of there, leaving the negative energy on her, and possibly rethinking how much of this kind of time and effort you choose to invest in someone who responds to your loving kindness this way going forward.

I have an elderly mil who behaves very much like this and I have dialed back my efforts to match her level of ability to receive them and respond in a way that is appropriate.

I do what I choose to do for her knowing that it most often is not enough and there will often times be a similar kind of wet blanket thrown over the light of love and kindness that has been shown her because she rarely is able to live in a place of gratitude and appreciation. That is on her.

This is the ticket for both of us right here and a great reminder for me as well:

QuoteA few years ago, this kind of behavior from mom would make me double down and try even harder to make her happy. But now, it just makes me angry. She is smart enough to know that I'm not going to desert her, and she should also realize that she has a busy and active life, and her complaints just don't ring true. Does she really think I'm that easy to manipulate? I find her behavior towards me insulting. But also, I have no idea how to stop it or even how I should react to it. I suppose I can't stop it and will just have to severely limit my time alone with her and also keep my medium chill going. But it is infuriating at times.

It is infuriating and insulting to encounter this from your mom and the result is disconnection. And it is sad. I'm sorry your lovely efforts toward your mother were treated this way.

p123 · May 27, 2021, 10:43:16 AM

The "lonely" card.....

I remember Dad laying it on thick one week. I was going to watch the cricket game (its like baseball but better). Dad likes cricket but never goes- moans about it.

So he wanted me to visit on the sunday because he was "so lonely". So I said look Im planning to go to the cricket so I'll pick you up, take you for lunch, we'll go to the cricket, I've got a car park space booked, all sorted nice day out. He made every excuse in the book not to go.

On the saturday "I'm so lonely are you coming to see me tomorrow". NO! I already told you I was going to watch the game, which I invited you to and you refused.
I realised then it was a power thing, all on his terms. If you had the idea, he would refuse, you had to do what he planned. He wanted me to cancel my plans and visit him INSTEAD so he could have the power.

Of course, I didn't and I no longer do. He gets invited and if he says no thats the end of it. I no longer try to talk him into it.
Proved to me that "lonely" just meant "need to know I can boss someone around"

lkdrymom · May 27, 2021, 05:21:02 PM

Good to see you back P123.

The first words out of my father during a visit would be...when are you visiting again? Seriously, can't we finish this visit first?

Boat Babe · May 27, 2021, 05:39:24 PM

Yeah, all of the above

We don't do kind things for gratitude but a simple smile and a thank you would be nice!!!

I don't think people with PDs do gratitude very well, if at all. A combination of entitlement and a complete disregard for the other person's feelings puts paid to that. Toxic.

Gratitude is a major component of happiness/contentment /good mental health and we are advised to be consciously grateful in our daily lives to support this. Gratitude builds and strengthens bonds between people. It's a lovely attitude and offering.

Then there's our parents

alphaomega · May 29, 2021, 10:17:35 AM

Take it from me when I tell you that it will NEVER be enough.

Nothing you do, nothing you say, no amount of time devoted, it will NEVER be enough for them.

I recently read this :
"Givers have to set limits because takers rarely do"

Cat of the Canals · May 29, 2021, 11:11:30 AM

I can't remember the last time we did something with PDmom or PDmil and they didn't make some comment that soured the whole thing. With PDmom, I would drive 2 hours to visit, and often the first words out of her mouth were, "I never get to see you." Like the fact that I'm standing RIGHT THERE isn't enough.

With PDmil, we'd drive nearly the same distance, stay for hours, play board games with her. We always stayed until about 8pm, and then my husband would announce, "Well, we should head back now." PDmil would get the PD death stare on and demand to know, "WHY." WHY????? Why what? Why are we leaving AT ALL? Because we have our own house! Our own lives! Cats that need feeding! Work that needs doing!

For a long time, I accepted this constant demand for "more" as a sign that they just enjoy spending time with us so much and value those opportunities. But then it occurred to me that when there's someone I really enjoy spending time with, my behavior is the opposite. I have an old friend who I only get to see once every five years or so, and we could literally meet up at a truck stop for 20 minutes, and not only would I be delighted, I would make it clear that even though it was a short visit, it meant something to me. I would never want her (or anyone) to feel like what they've given me somehow wasn't enough or left me disappointed! Partially because I wouldn't want to put that on someone else, but also because I wouldn't to taint our brief time together with such negativity.

Sneezy · June 01, 2021, 08:52:18 AM

Quote from: Bloomie on May 27, 2021, 09:14:19 AM
We can spin and spin trying to understand what is behind this and even come up with the possibility that our loved one is fearing they will be deserted... which may or may not be true and if it is what is behind this behavior their emotions are theirs to manage.

Yes, I think I keep trying to understand my mother. I try to get inside her head and figure out why she says and does the things she says and does. But I have to accept that my brain doesn't work like hers and it is unlikely that I will ever understand her.

She did it to me again this weekend. DH and I even came up with a plan ahead of time. Mom doesn't complain as much around DH and so we decided that if she needed stuff carried up to her apartment at the end of our afternoon together, DH would do that while I waited in the car. But Mom thwarted that plan

. Instead of waiting until the end of the day to complain, she started out complaining from the first minute. The entire four hours we spent together on Sunday was Mom's random complaints, followed by long stretches of silence. We couldn't get her engaged in any topic of conversation. She literally ignored most of what we said and then just interjected complaints here and there (all the typical stuff - bad food at senior living, everyone is mean to her, etc.).

Then it was like the dam burst on Monday morning and Mom just had to talk. She called me, less than 12 hours after we had dropped her off, and I shouldn't have answered the phone. She started talking, frantically and without taking a breath, about everything going on in her life and her friends' lives. Any topic we could have covered in our time together on Sunday, suddenly came pouring out. I finally had to interrupt and tell her that I had things to do and would catch up with her later in the week.

Mom's behavior is just bizarre. I don't understand it and I never will. And I hate that I stew about it later and feel guilty about not paying enough attention to her (logically, I know I can NEVER pay enough attention to her, but the guilt is still there). Time to strengthen the boundaries. I said I wasn't talking on the phone with her more than twice a week and I need to stick to that. No more answering the phone and/or calling back every time she calls.

Cat of the Canals · June 01, 2021, 09:18:05 AM

Oh Sneezy, I've made myself crazy trying to predict what my mother's behavior or reaction will be to something. I am somehow always wrong! (Especially if I've got a gameplan to thwart it, like you did.) I know there will be something unpleasant, but it's often not what I expect. The dysfunction and misery are predictable. But what flavor comes out on what day is generally a surprise.

I simply never answer the phone when my mother calls. I gave her a custom ring tone so I know it's her from across the room and won't even be tempted to answer. If the ringing itself still makes it too likely that you'll answer (because you start thinking "What if she really needs something???"), set her calls to go straight to voicemail! Then get a voicemail-to-text app so you don't have to hear that waify nonsense out loud.

Sneezy · June 01, 2021, 09:57:18 AM

Quote from: Cat of the Canals on June 01, 2021, 09:18:05 AM
The dysfunction and misery are predictable. But what flavor comes out on what day is generally a surprise.

Exactly! And these surprises completely mess up all my plans and lists. I think I need to go with tighter boundaries and less pre-planning

The phone is definitely off (actually, in the bottom of my purse with low charge).

p123 · June 02, 2021, 09:48:15 AM

Quote from: lkdrymom on May 27, 2021, 05:21:02 PM
Good to see you back P123.

The first words out of my father during a visit would be...when are you visiting again? Seriously, can't we finish this visit first?

Got banned. Confusion over my VPN for work looking like I was a spambot!

1footouttadefog · June 04, 2021, 09:56:34 AM

I hBe had several elderly relatives and friends who started never wanting to go do certain things. All manner of manipulation was put in place to have plans changed or derailed to something else.

In many cases it was because they could no longer comfortably walk a certain distance or up stairs etc because of emphasema, ocpd, or bad heart valves.

I am still amazed how abusive and manipulative they would be to avoid others from doing things they could no longer comfortably do and or avoid asking for accommodation.

How easy it could have been for them to say can you drop me at the building where I can sit while you park.

Or I would be glad to eat lunch at the mall, but I think I will sit by the fountain with a coffee and newspaper while the rest of you shop.