MIL bad mouthing me

[Jolie40]

always thought MIL was normal but today overheard child talking with grandma
child was complaining about pandemic & me keeping child safe 'til vaccinated but it all turned into talk about me being a germaphobe

MIL has a conspiracy theory relative so they don't believe in virus or vaccines

so I overhear MIL tell my child that "I'm sick" not once but twice!
this makes me question allowing child to continue to talk with grandma weekly OR
should I just let this go?

[Andeza]

Well, just looking at your post, I see grandma trying to manipulate your child. So as the facts stand, if your child is around grandma, we have no reason to believe that grandma is going to stop undermining you as the parent.

So the question isn't should I let my child spend time with grandma. The question you're actually asking is "should I let my mil continue to manipulate my child against me."

Now this can be countered with boundaries. As in, my child is not allowed to talk to grandma without me, and if grandma crosses the line, I end the call.  And then you never leave the room. That's just an example though. Ultimately, you have to decide how to proceed in your situation.

[Leonor]

Hi Jolie,

We have similar issues with ILs. Left to their own devices, they'll start off talking about the weather but always wind up complaining about their health, describing their difficult childhood and/or complain about each other to the kids ... which are imo ploys to get dh's attention.

I am NC, but dh is not ready to go there and the kids love their g'parents. So our boundaries now are: they can Skype for 10-15 minutes once a week when apart with dh present; when we're in the same city, they visit 10-15 minutes once a week in a park with dh present.

That might seem like a lot, but this is a culture in which families live together cross-generationally and we used to see them practically all day, every day.

So far, it's working ... But only because I and dh are in agreement about our compromise, and they haven't spoken badly to him or the boys about me (yet.)

The fact that your mil said something to your child about *you* is enough to draw a big line. Preferably one drawn by your h!

[Jolie40]

thanks for replies Andeza & Leonor

I was certainly shocked to overhear MIL badmouth me! (there was more)

husband & I encouraged child to talk with grandma weekly especially since she lost husband last year
is this some kind of weird bonding between child & grandma by way of putting me down?

compared to PD parent, MIL always seemed nice!
guess one never knows what someone will say behind one's back

still processing all this

[Cat of the Canals]

Both PDmom and PDmil can seem quite nice. PDmom absolutely dotes on my sister-in-law, but not 15 minutes after the wedding ceremony was wondering out loud to me and other family members why my brother hadn't "gotten together" with a different woman who was there as a guest, because she's "just so wonderful." 

Some PDs are just sneakier than others. PDmom, for example, rarely guilt trips me directly. She sends Flying Monkeys, instead. That way, if I confront her and say, "Why did you ask your sister to tell me I need to call you more often?" She can say, "I never asked her to do that!" The sneaky PDs will always try to leave themselves room for plausible deniability.

Back to your MIL, though... definitely a line was crossed here, and I would be surprised if this was the first time she's done it. There's definitely a bonding angle in that they are sort of "sharing a secret." But it's also a version of triangulation/splitting. She's painting you as the bad guy. The "mean/crazy/unreasonable mommy." You vs. them.

I agree that future conversations between them should have a "chaperone."

[Jolie40]

She's painting you as the bad guy. The "mean/crazy/unreasonable mommy." You vs. them.

you're absolutely right & if I hadn't overheard her words myself,  I wouldn't have believed she was capable of being so unkind about me!

I asked child later "how was talk with grandma?" only thing child said was "grandma was complaining!"
of course, I knew child wouldn't say that grandma bad mouthed me

I then said next time you call, I want to be around to talk, also

cat of the canals- yes, now wondering if there's been other conversations bad mouthing me since you stated this might not be first time ...they've been talking weekly for months!

[Jolie40]

I see grandma trying to manipulate your child.

I agree!
also heard Grandma saying how much fun child would have going to Aunt's house across the country
(grandma's youngest daughter)
painting me bad "because I'd probably not let child go visit"

first of all, we did take child to visit Aunt before
second, child is too young to fly across country alone

Grandma, when did you become a meddler?

[Jolie40]

The fact that your mil said something to your child about *you* is enough to draw a big line. Preferably one drawn by your h!

told husband & he said if his mom says anything bad about me to him, he'll "nip it in the bud"
his exact words & he gave no excuses for his mom

note- didn't purposely listen in
they'd been talking about an hour so went to see if they were almost done & that's when heard Grandma talking about me

[Jolie40]

few min ago on computer grp meet with grandma/Aunts
I have summer calendar to show them how busy child will be with virtual classes/camps

Grandma interjects "I still think child should go to Aunt's house for couple wks"
note- Aunt says nothing, not even "that's a good idea"

so I say "summer is booked"
Grandma says "cancel" .......I say the $ has already been sent
then she says "kids should have fun in summer"

yes! that's why child is signed up for activities child likes (I didn't say that tho)
uggh- Grandma talks with child once/wk & now Grandma thinks "she" knows what's best!

[Jolie40]

asked child to tell grandma "Aunt can fly here & visit for a week" 

so next time grandma says to child "go visit your Aunt", child has above comeback
I asked her to say above EVERY time Grandma pushes for child to visit Aunt

any guesses how many times it'll take 'til grandma drops it? 

[Cat of the Canals]

If she's anything like my PDmil: NEVER!  She never gives up, her demands just morph into something new.

Another PD red flag that she won't accept "no" on this whole aunt visit. Especially in the face of perfectly valid excuses as to why it won't work for you.

[moglow]

Grandma is volunteering an aunt to host - an offer not made by the aunt herself? Honestly, it's a No issue unless/until an invitation is actually issued by the aunt [who may well have her own plans but is also being steamrolled by grandma]. AND now even more redundant since they've been made aware of child's summer plans. But that's not really whats going on here, is it?

I suspect grandma is doing what she's always done and running over everyone in the process. She's for sure crossed a hard line here, talking smack to a child - about her parents, no less! For me, seems like supervised phone calls are the only real answer going forward - video chats/speaker phone only, when parent are home and within earshot. Maybe not where grandma can see *you* but you're available to step in the instant it goes sideways. And then you do just that: "Stacy please say goodbye to grandma now, I need to speak with her for a moment."

That's when I'd tell grandma we're teaching our family that it's rude to talk behind someone's back and/or disrespect them. It's gossip and it's not acceptable, even less so when it's pitting a child against adults, ANY adult. Call it what it is and don't sidestep her. She can get as huffy as she wants, but children learn what they see and they shouldn't be in the middle of grandma's dysfunction. She needs to take it up with you or, preferably, not at all. It's not the child's place to make their summer plans or explain why.

It's flat out rude of grandma - and she knows it. She got all comfortable and needs to dial that all the way back. Or you can block her from child's phone and discontinue all but brief family calls when it's convenient for you to call her.

That's my $.92 for what it's worth.

[sandpiper]

Undermining is their raison d'etre. Sorry you are going through this, if it wasn't the pandemic it would be something else.
All I have to add here is maybe just acknowledge the child's feelings and give them a simple explanation for what's happening here.
I.e. 'Honey I know it's tough that we can't do everything we'd like to while the virus is making people so sick. It must feel like such a long time for you. But it won't last forever and we are getting medicines and treatments that will make it so much safer. Grandma doesn't understand about the virus and there's really nothing we can do about that, except to make sure that we are all safe.'
Encourage your child to ask questions and guide them to science and logic for the answers. Good communication and good sense will always be an effective foil for the rabbit-hole wanderings of conversations with the PD.

[Jolie40]

continuing on MIL...

wants us to attend summer family reunion- we're not this year so she blames me
now pressuring husband by pulling out the "I'm going to die soon" card!

first of all, MIL has a sibling 10 yrs older, still alive
no, she's not going anywhere

second, we used our vacation time several years to visit them out of state
it's our turn to have a family vacation

[moglow]

Jolie the tunnel vision by way of them "saving face" with others never ceases to amaze me. No, don't mind me treating you crappy and gossippng behind your back! I need you at the reunion. Yeah no.

[Cat of the Canals]

Ahh yes, playing the Imminent Death card.

Two of PDmil's favorite lines are, "I won't be around forever!" and "Well, I'm no spring chicken, you know!"
She's not even 70.

[moglow]

Mine did some of that too "won't be long before you have to yell at me in xyz cemetery ..." A. I don't yell at her or anyone else. B. Not visiting there for her either. 

[all4peace]

I'm sorry you're faced with this really difficult situation....family relationships with people who feel free to badmouth you.

In my own story, my uNBPDmil did this since we had our first child. At the point when I could hardly take it anymore, we tried to set boundaries, it didn't go well, and we chose a lot of distance.

At this stage in my life, both my kids are adults. Their grandparents befriended their closest friends' grandparents, and now those friends' grandparents corner my kids in public venues and pry into their connection with my ILs, urging them to reach out to them, to get to know them, etc. I can't predict your future, obviously, but this is where it has led for me. I do believe that because we got some level of boundaries it allowed our kids to grow up and see easily when people are behaving manipulatively.

You are not alone.