Went no contact last year. Considering what to do going forward.

[Oscen]

In December 2019, I sent an email to my mother saying I didn't want to speak to them (her and Dad) in 2020.

No contact has been great. I've done a lot of work on myself and improved my mental health and general life skills, communication skills, etc. Still have a way to go but I'm proud of my progress. I've had to face a lot of uncomfortable truths.

Now, I'm considering reaching out. I still have a lot of frustration. Part of me just wants to attack and punish my mother for being a useless parent and a self-centred bitch. I really would like to attack her and make her feel bad and acknowledge the way her shitty behaviour has affected me.

Obviously I can't do that. That's not me, not my values, and not productive, plus opening up emotionally in that way would make me vulnerable to her anyway, probably flipping the whole thing back on me. So I'm well aware that this desire would not serve me at all if it were acted upon, no matter how much she really deserves it (the way she used to scream at me as a child... evil). I accept that it's a natural and healthy response to being hurt, betrayed and constantly exploited by someone I trusted.

I want to reach out and take control of the situation, resolve the situation in some way. But another part of me strongly believes that a relationship with her is a waste of time. I don't believe that she's capable of normal human interactions. We'd have to take so many steps back in terms of intimacy to rebuild my trust, and I know she'd be very resistant as she loves just being overcasual, talking about whatever she wants to including personal things about her friends and my sisters, and feels entitled to know personal things about me - which I wouldn't share now, but it makes for an awkward conversation to be constantly on guard like that.

The hard thing is taking a decision and following through on it now, vs making another attempt to have a relationship, with more boundaries and expectations communicated. I feel like I haven't tried enough before I draw a line under this relationship and move on, but I'm literally scared by the prospect of making contact with her again. I fear her. I know that going in, it would test every skill I've developed in terms of boundary setting, communication, self-confidence and self-esteem, the works. 

This decision is hard because it puts me so far out of the norm in terms of society. I know you all understand that and are very much in the same boat. But I'm not surrounded by people like you all in daily life and that's hard. I feel like my life is on hold. My partner and I are engaged and frankly, I don't want my parents there. I'm getting more comfortable with that. But even after making that decision, it feels so harsh, and then there's the grieving, the loss, that open acknowledgement that I don't have a proper family and it's hurt me, made me less capable and strong as a person, at least while I'm learning to heal and grow.

The ball's in my court and that's a positive place to be, but I guess I'm still coming to terms with the fact that I'm completely responsible for this no-win situation. I'm going to keep going, keep working on myself, as I always do. Just came on here for a moan, I guess! Thanks for your patience.

[Leonor]

Hi Oscen,

I'm so sorry you're struggling with this. Going no contact is an excruciating decision that few people really understand, either because their families were relatively healthy or because they are deeply fogged.

I wonder if you second-guessing yourself might be part of your healing process rather than a sign you should "try one more time" or are "being unfair." Maybe these feelings are old feelings that are coming up from the past in order to be healed: "my parents are abusive and it's not healthy for me to be around them. This makes me feel angry with them and sad for myself."

That's the truth, but it's an ugly truth. It's a truth you were not allowed to recognize when you were younger. So you twisted those feelings inward: "I am the problem, I am abusive, I am unfair, they should feel upset with me," etc.

When these feelings come up, you don't have to act on them. You don't have to do anything about it. You can sit with them, hold them, allow them to be. And reassure yourself that the feelings are okay.

Also, you don't have to be perfect at no contact. It's not as if you let your boundaries down and reach out, you've failed at healing or are to blame for anything or deserve whatever they dish out at you. So you don't have to punish yourself by thinking "This is forever or else." You can say, "For now," or "Until later," or "When things change," or "We'll see." It can be a decision you make every day.

Be gentle with you. Recovery isn't hard because you have to be punished or suffer before you can feel better. It's about learning to be kind, be compassionate, be gentle with yourself all the time, and you're not used to it yet.

Breathe.

[Bothar]

Hi Oscen, I empathise with your situation and concur with Leonor.  Go easy on yourself.
I went NC with my NF and my siblings just before Christmas 2017 and the shock of finding myself making that decision was what made me post for the first time on this site.  The NC lasted 9 months and it was guilt, which felt like physical pain in my gut and an over riding feeling of panic, that made me go back.  I couldn't accept that this was a final  decision.  How could I possibly live a life without them?   A year went by. A year where I saw again what I had left behind the first time and I had to decide again that I couldn't deal with NF.  He was never going to change; he just couldn't and I had to accept that.  So I went back to NC.  It was a very quick decision in the end as a result of a badly declining situation but I was mentally better prepared for it.    This time, I left a channel of communication open for my siblings but I hear very little from them.  The second time of going NC has been much easier because of my experience with the first etc.  I cannot say for definite that this is final.  I simply don't know and accepting the 'not knowing' is a big step for me.  I can understand that an upcoming wedding could trigger these feelings of guilt and the wishfulness of things being different.  I am still grieving that my NF cannot be the way I would wish for.  I think about him every day and wonder how he gets through Christmas, or his birthday.   There are parts of him that I still love.  I suppose that's the whole bonding thing since childhood.....he's not all bad or wicked just supremely self centred.  But the feeling I get if I think about seeing him again is one of fear and this great weight bearing down on me.  I wish it was different but it is what it is.  You mentioned that you would 'like to reach out and take control of the situation'.  One thing I discovered from my dealing with my NF is that I cannot control anything. Even my own reactions to life, my feelings etc are very hard to control sometimes.  My FOO is a organism which has evolved over years.........I can trace the disfunction way back to my grandparents and even before that.   How can anyone control this?  It's just too big.  Now I try to live in my own space, a space I've carved out for myself.  It's like living in a new house, with very little furniture where I can decide what goes where, sometimes missing something from my old life but knowing I'll survive.  It's taken three years for me to get to this stage and I'm still learning.  I wish you the very best and congratulations on your engagement. 

[moglow]

Oscen,

First, all the very best to you and your fiance/spouse to be! I'm glad you another in your corner, someone you can build a life you love with rather than just floating through.

I can see where this special time alone could trigger doubts and questions, where you're pondering how you want to celebrate your new life and with whom. Obvs you want a joyous occasion, filled with live and laughter as you begin your new life together. From that perspective alone, it stands to reason that you're questioning your NC decision. Then you have friends and family possibly asking questions about your relationship with the parents, whether overtly or via roundabout conversation. A lot gets stirred up, I'm sure.

As Leonor graciously pointed out above, this is yours to do with as you choose. Your decision it may be, but you can't really claim full responsibility for this no win situation - it didn't happen in a vacuum.

There's nothing and no one stopping you from calling, texting, emailing or even sending a card. Think first: what's your goal? What's important to you and how best to get there, and how to communicate it to them. Play out and prepare for the possible responses, good or bad. Do you simply want to be heard so you can put it down, or are you wanting to clear the stagnant air so you can all move forward and re/build a different relationship together.

Think also of her/their responses and if you're prepared for whatever those might be. If they're anything like mine, it runs the gamut - I literally never knew what i'd get or how long it might last.

We're here with you regardless!

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hi Oscen. I relate a lot to what you write and this may get long. But here goes.

I am also NC since 2017 from my FOO. So yes, I am/have been in this same boat and have felt a lot of similar feelings to you're expressing. Spoiler alert: I have pretty firmly decided that my NC is staying NC, so my response is likely prejudiced toward that outcome despite my best effort, but I hope you find my thoughts helpful anyway.

I'm glad that NC overall has been a positive opportunity for growth. You used your time well, and now that 2021 is half over... now what? I hear ya. You picked a good year to take off from a difficult relationship, by the way!

I say you are not responsible for creating a no-win situation here. You have taken control of the situation in your own life and given yourself a chance to find your own resolution. That is tremendous! I see it very differently from a no-win. If you stay NC, you maintain the peaceful life you've begun to build. If you reach back out, you are giving yourself the opportunity to test things out and see what you can observe about yourself and practicing the skills you've been learning during the last year. You are allowed to learn and to change your mind. There are positives either way, regardless of the outcome. Is this ideal? Of course not. But you are not responsible for having a mother who is so difficult that being out of her life has been unequivocally positive for you. You seem very clear on that.

I feel like my life is on hold. My partner and I are engaged and frankly, I don't want my parents there. I'm getting more comfortable with that. But even after making that decision, it feels so harsh, and then there's the grieving, the loss, that open acknowledgement that I don't have a proper family and it's hurt me, made me less capable and strong as a person, at least while I'm learning to heal and grow.

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding. If you don't want your parents there, that's that, whatever you decide about NC going forward. It does very understandably drag up all sorts of emotions over societal expectations, and a wedding does put the reality of your family in sharp relief. It hurts.

Regardless of your decision now, what you wrote is the truth. You have a real loss, and a real grief, from not having a proper family. Choosing to resume contact or not doesn't change that, because it is was you've experienced. Getting back in contact might help you dodge that "open acknowledgment" of your hurt part. But at what cost?

I had a baby after going NC, and I was worried about how I would feel when the birth happened and I had no family to celebrate with us, and in fact I wasn't even going to tell them about the baby. I was expecting major grief and even sought preemptive PPD counseling through my midwife center. When the time did come, all I felt was relief. Relief that I was NC and had created a peaceful life and that I could recover from birth without all the drama and stress that I had experienced with my other babies. It was GOOD. So sometimes these things just don't turn out the way we fear.

I am hearing a lot of fear in your post. Fear of your mother, you say, and fear of making the wrong decision, of having not tried hard enough, of being outside the norm. It makes sense.

A thought about having not tried hard enough. Relationships between adults are a two way street. A principle that I have found of great use is that of matching my efforts to those of other people. I find it really interesting that you say nothing at all about your parents' reaction to your going NC. Usually people on here when they are NC talk about that part of the situation, possibly too much at times. My parents were the smear campaigning, harassing sorts. Some have parents who just discard their children and apparently forget they existed. None of us can control or possibly even predict our parents' responses. Your investment can only ever be 50% of the relationship. You are right that getting back in contact would merely be the first step in a long progress of rebuilding a relationship from the ground up. Do you, mom, and dad all have it in you to invest the time and energy that would require? Are you willing and able to be patient and take it slowly and possibly be disappointed after all? Is the possibility of the relationship you hope to have be worth the effort and emotional energy you'll be investing? It's okay if the answer is no, but if it's no for either party it simply isn't going to happen.

I agree with Moglow about being real clear and honest with yourself about what your goals are. I do hope that helps and we're here!

[Cat of the Canals]

I want to reach out and take control of the situation, resolve the situation in some way.

I think this is the crux of it for a lot of us. It feels like there should be some sort of ending or closure or resolution. But often, there is not. Even with permanent NC, many people are left worrying that it's only a matter of time before the PD tries to initiate contact or otherwise stir up drama.

Something that helps me when I start feeling this urge to confront is to ask myself if I am OK where I'm at right in this very moment. And usually the answer is yes. And then I can let it go... at least until the next time those feelings crop up. Rinse and repeat.

[moglow]

Been thinking more about this and went back to your post above:

...The hard thing is taking a decision and following through on it now, vs making another attempt to have a relationship, with more boundaries and expectations communicated. I feel like I haven't tried enough before I draw a line under this relationship and move on, but I'm literally scared by the prospect of making contact with her again. I fear her. I know that going in, it would test every skill I've developed in terms of boundary setting, communication, self-confidence and self-esteem, the works. 

I read this again and I think of my tagline: Expectations are disappointments under construction. Having expectations of another person - ANY other person - are liable to be a big fat upset in the long run. Why? Because we're not them. We're putting our standards or rules, if you will, on another person who we know going in isn't likely to conform. And why should they? That's not who they are, it's who WE are. We can communicate that all day every day and others are still going to be who they are - as it should be. We're only in control of ourselves and our own behavior.

Have and communicate your own boundaries, by all means! Understand that boundaries without actions [YOUR action] are just words. Other people have no obligation to comply on any level, and a PD individual may take a harder stance thinking that boundaries are wrong somehow. They're NOT - they're a much needed separation between us as individuals, and they apply to any and every relationship we have, and

I know with mine, I've communicated any number of times what she says and does and how it affects others - and mother steamrolls on as always. She truly has no remorse, no consideration, 100% self involved. I finally drew that line for myself and see no reason to turn back. I've changed, she has not. Change for me meant taking a harder step back and away, my own personal refusal to be her doormat and whipping boy. So far I'm feeling better for it, physically and emotionally. I'm simply not willing to go back into the arena with her on any level, and may never be. I understand that I can totally accept who she is and still be unwilling to engage with that person. I don't want that spite and negativity in my life and mother thrives on it, drives it ever deeper every time she gets a foothold. It's not always easy but it is much better than absorbing the venom she spewed at me in the past.

[Jolie40]

Hi Oscen,

NC since last summer, so coming up on a year
a year in which I've not made any phone contact or in-person contact with PD parent or siblings

less stress = more sleep
less cortisol, stress hormone = weight loss
less stress = no more stress eating!

PD parent made me SG & siblings treated me as SG once they became adults

know with 99.9 % certainty, nothing would change should I reappear
I don't have the energy nor desire to try again!

[Sheppane]

Hi Oscen just putting on a quick reply. I'll post again when have more time.
Firstly I'm sorry you are going through this and well done for looking after yourself in what sound like very difficult relationships. I think most on this site if not all would agree that NC is often a last resort after we have tried and tried. It's not usually our first choice but sometimes that " choice" moves clearly towards us as we realise that staying in unhealthy relationships is causing us serious harm, and when we know that it is our responsibility to protect ourselves from people who harm us. It's very painful.
I am VLC but still circling this particular wagon. I can hear fear and self doubt in what you say and also the desire to in some way resolve it. That's the very uncomfortable part for me always and it spirals me into self doubt , guilt and all those other internalised feelings. When I am stuck in that it is hard for me to remember that those feelings are not true ! Even if they are the feelings of others in my family ( others who feel I have abandoned/ betrayed by setting boundaries ) - that does not mean they are true. They are their feelings and that's all they are not facts. If someone in my FOO told me they felt that the sky was green I would acknowledge they feel that way but would not agree. If I sense a whiff of " this is all your fault / look what you have done to us " the wounded part of me AUTOMATICALLY agrees. I need to remind myself I have done NOTHING wrong by protecting myself. Not always easy though.
The young part of me still wants the illusion / the dream and I have to gently but firmly tell that part of me that we need to work towards letting that go ( in my case anyway)..but it's hard, I feel your pain. The desire to " resolve" it often comes back in almost to tempt me - and I now try and see it as just that,  a natural human desire to want things to be otherwise. Yet my heart knows I have tried before. Its that feeling of " maybe this time ?"..but again and again reality showd me otherwise.
My inner child freaks out when I set boundaries,  and also when I feel uncertain about the future,  and uncertain about whether I've made the right decision. There is no rush. Sometimes I try to just let go of it and allow it to unfold on its own terms. Trying to trust that if there is anything healthy left for me it will find me.
Confusion and indecision are big triggers for me. And remember not making a decision for now - if that's the right thing - is making a decision.
Self trust and self love 
Sending strength 

[Dandelion]

Hello Oscan, we fine it so hard to work this out don't we, because it's not generally something people understand (esp if our parents "look" normal from the outside).

One thing I found helpful was writing a letter that you intend to send - though may not.

In my case it wasn't a long letter or even emotional, it was about on what basis or how we could resume contact or move forward and my acceptance also if this was not possible.  I never sent the letter in the end, though I really meant to.  I took my time, trying whenever the mood struck.  I did it a few times over several months, and found it very clarifying. 

Whatever you decide, take your time, there's no rush.  I believe your unconscious is working too to help you heal a little more each day, without you even having to do much, a free gift if you like.  Meanwhile I hope you enjoy your wedding and wedding plans and if you are having a honeymoon that too .

[Oscen]

Hi all,

Thank you all very much for your kind, thoughtful words. You've asked some questions that got me thinking, so I'll add some more info. This is really helping to share and get feedback, so thank you so much. I'm crying because it means a lot to be able to talk about this stuff - I'm feeling really isolated right now and not only because of lockdown, just feeling isolated from not being understood by friends and so on.

I went no-contact with my parents for all of 2020, so now it's been a year and a half. Their response was to not communicate to me at all. It was a total discard, which has been what our relationship has been more or less all my adult life. I remember when I moved out at 19 and they didn't call me for at least six months. I think at the time I called them eventually about a sister's birthday. They had helped me move and I knew that I could call them if I was really stuck for money or something, but it did come with strings attached and I had to be the one who reached out; they've never just shown an interest in me really, never just made an effort to demonstrate that they care. They treat me like a burden that they take seriously, but begrudge the effort. Interesting. I've never phrased it that way before. I thought they were good parents because they do take the responsibility seriously, but they never seemed to actually like (let alone love) me. That explains why they've often tried to deny my needs; if they explain the need away, then they don't have to do anything. And I guess they found doing things for me unrewarding.

When I moved to the other side of the world in my twenties, we never called although I was emailing my mother about once a week for the first few months. I was pouring my heart out a bit as I was lonely. My housemates called their families regularly - for the girls it was weekly - and received "care packages" occasionally too. I think M was replying to my emails but she doesn't really address points that I've made in my emails; she just pours out her own stuff. I try to respond to her ideas and make it into a sort of conversation, but she never or rarely reciprocates. Later, one of my sisters told me that M had said to her that M thought that my emailing was too much, I seemed to be constantly contacting her to avoid putting down roots in my new home, and she had been considering having a word with me, because she thought she needed to help me by cutting the cord. Utter nonsense designed to make M feel important and me look bad in my sister's eyes, of course. I was flabbergasted and a bit upset when my sister told me that. Now I'm wiser to how M works with her smears and triangulation, I know better that normal families do communicate regularly, and I'm also wiser to that sister - she's as narcissistic as M, and could easily have challenged or questioned M for details but was happy to share in picking holes at an achievement that I'm really proud of (moving to another country) because I know that my sister feels insecure about that. She also didn't need to pass that information onto me either.  But I didn't question it at the time - I wanted my sister's approval. I've been very naive and not questioned people's motives or noted my own feelings about things.

As for expectations and boundaries - I haven't actually had those conversations where I've communicated that what my mother is doing is hurting me and why. That's why I feel guilty that I've moved straight to no-contact, although she has definitely blocked those conversation the few times I've tried to instigate them. She had a medium-serious health scare the the year before I went no-contact and it stirred up emotions in me.  I emailed her saying I was unhappy about the relationship and wanted to talk. She responded that she would like a more meaningful relationship with me, but that she didn't feel up to the conversation at the time. Then she went back to her pattern of sending me emails about once a month that were just information dumps, with no mention of what I'd said. I was so angry, and about nine months later I decided I'd go no-contact. I'm anxious about having a conversation like that - it is my own emotional reactivity I fear. The mature part of me knows that I need to use assertive, calm, non-reactive communication. I'm working on that in work and with friends, but as I try to move from passivity to assertiveness, I'm still having some moments when I accidentally move into aggressive, for example a friend blanked me recently, I decided I should honour my feelings and say something, but I hadn't realised how upset I was and it came out wrong. Now I'm doubting myself despite knowing objectively what happened (I was literally looking from her face to my watch, amazed at how long she was refusing to acknowledge my presence), and her bad behaviour has been completely overshadowed by my bad reaction. This is what I'm most afraid of - with my mother I think I'll be even more stirred up emotionally.

When I say I want to control the situation, I obviously don't think I can control the other people or even control the relationship because it takes two to tango. I'm talking about self-control & decision-making. I want to feel clearer on what I want, I want to feel more confident in my assessment of the situation, and I want to be more decisive in laying out a path, taking steps along it, taking note of results and considering if I need to revise my approach, etc. I need to work more on my emotional reactivity in particular - this is the key. I've been making progress overall but keep making mistakes and then feel self-doubt, however objectively I am moving forward.

I don't know what I want because:
a) I haven't had that conversation with my M and so I'm not sure what she has to offer, relationship-wise
b) I think I'm having a hard time letting go of the fantasy that I could make the relationship work somehow if I were better, if I knew what to do - after all, I'm still disappointed in how I respond emotionally and I know things will get better when I improve that. I can see that this is a lie sold to me to keep me guilty and submissive, but it taps so well into an actual flaw of mine that I feel ashamed of that I am struggling not to blame myself
c) the immature part of me just wants to lay into my parents for hurting me and being crap parents. The mature part of me knows this will get me nowhere, but the urge is so strong at times. It feels like justice when my M used to absolutely excoriate me emotionally when I was jsut a kid for doing age-appropriate things. I think I will do the letter-writing thing. And I think it's not really possible to truly forgive/release resentment for abuse until you feel you've eagled in some way and taken back control of your own life, even if that just means dealing with the fallout. I need to be more empowered and proactive; drop the victim mentality that I'm afford I've been living by.
d) I am struggling to accept the reality of the choices that are before me, that no-contact probably is the best option but then I feel like I'm lopping off a part of me that makes me less of a whole human when I interact with others. I feel isolated in my friendships because people talk to each other about family, they take up a lot of air-time while I sit and listen, I try to join in with questions and remembering information but it's a skill I need to work on because my own family situation has made me not learn how to engage on that level. I feel like I'm just not getting intimate with friends because this is a way that people get close - they mention their families a little bit with surface level stuff, the other person shares a little, then gradually they bond more deeply by sharing more, little by little. Not only do I just not naturally feel that urge to share and I feel sad and left out when I listen, but I feel I've only got completely surface level stuff, and then it jumps to socially inappropriate stuff, which I rarely talk about of course, but even saying that I don't communicate with my family doesn't work right now because I clearly have strong emotions about it. So I have resentment there that I need to process. I feel my family has isolated me from people but it's up to me to change that, so the resentment is just an excuse not to take responsibility. Anger/grief will be the healthy expression of all this, but the resentment is anger just left to fester and I have got to stop carrying it - it's poisoning my soul and my relationships.

Anyway, this has been helpful because I can really identify that the issue is my emotional reactions to everything. I am working on this area, have been for a while, but I can see it's the key. I have made some mistakes recently with being reactive, but I think I had to allow myself to do it to know that emotional reactivity is bad, not because other people don't like it, but because I feel bad about myself afterwards (and of course guilty and sad that I'm damaging relationships). I was never allowed to make mistakes like that as a kid, despite being constantly verbally abused, so I felt that I wanted to unload my emotions - M did it, so it was what mature, powerful people did. I can see it's clearly NOT - but I think I had to make that mistake a few times before I could really see it's not who I want to be.

However, I feel horrendously guilty at times when I see the mistakes I've made. I can see that I've tainted most of my friendships and workplace relationships because of my emotional reactivity and lack of responsibility stemming from my victim mentality. I have few friends so cutting my parents out of the wedding would mean I had very few people there fullstops while my partner would have friends and family, which is my own fault for not making more effort with people, but I feel like it's a sign of my unworthiness as a person, that so few people love me. I'm doing my best to stop dropping into that helpless feeling again - I can keep it at bay more and more - but sometimes it's hard that abuse is not just abuse; I then have to deal with the person the abuse has made me become and I haven't been strong enough yet to change it yet. I'm struggling with loving myself because frankly, I don't like a lot of the things I've done and I don't trust myself to deal well with situations.

If I'm perfectly honest, I think I would satisfy the criteria for BPD. I don't think I have it, because the point of PDs is they are permanent and from the work I've done already, I've changed a lot of things - some underlying beliefs, some behaviours, reduced emotional reactivity, etc. So I actually feel confident I can get my emotions regulated at a healthy level, so it's not some innate quality in me; just very poor communication and self-management skills due to a rubbish childhood.

I do a lot of things that have helped tremendously, like journalling, meditation, CBT/NLP/DBT exercises, etc. I'm going to double down on this, might even try EMDR on myself. I spoke to my partner about how he can support me by encouraging me in this work and he's on board, which is nice, so I'm going to make some schedules for mediation, journalling, etc, and put up some motivations quotes and things.

[Oscen]

I just reread your post Leonor:

Be gentle with you. Recovery isn't hard because you have to be punished or suffer before you can feel better. It's about learning to be kind, be compassionate, be gentle with yourself all the time, and you're not used to it yet.

This is true. Objectively I know that the only way to get better is to be kind to myself. Hard getting into the habit because there's something about self-castigation that feels like it ought to do some good... but it doesn't! I'm making some cards & posters etc with nice quotes to put up to remind myself of this. I'm going to get my whole environment on my side, working with me on my recovery.

[Oscen]

Do you, mom, and dad all have it in you to invest the time and energy that would require? Are you willing and able to be patient and take it slowly and possibly be disappointed after all? Is the possibility of the relationship you hope to have be worth the effort and emotional energy you'll be investing? It's okay if the answer is no, but if it's no for either party it simply isn't going to happen.

I agree with Moglow about being real clear and honest with yourself about what your goals are. I do hope that helps and we're here!

Hi Call Me Cordelia, thanks for your comment. I've reread this bit and it's a good way to evaluate expectations vs effort. I'd be willing to work for a positive relationship and I would like to have a real sense of family, but I'm not willing to work hard on a relationship that is draining far more often than it is nourishing.

For my parents I don't know exactly what their answer would be - how hard they're willing to work, or what they want, or what they expect. I haven't had that conversation with them - tried to once or twice with M but she avoided it.

Nevertheless, I'd say their behaviour up until now is indicative anyway. They show little interest in me and expect me to just listen and agree. They're very resentful when I need help or want to talk and be listened to. When I'd successful, they don't reach out. I might get a "well done" from my M as appropriate, but it's clearly fake, and she'll look for a way to cut me back down in the same conversant. What I want is a really loving, kind, supportive and respectful relationship, but that won't happen. If they were able to love, they would be doing it already. The fact they keep me at arm's length and always have shows that there's something wrong with their capacity for emotion and relationships.

I don't know what I'd get out of VLC/grey rock with them at this point - I don't think I've processed my emotions enough to be around them, be calm and detached, and to be able to appreciate the little they had to offer. I'm still too resentful towards them - well, actually, furious.

So I'll keep working on the emotional processing. I like meditation, journalling, DBT, CBT, NLP, this forum and a support group, as well as reading lots of books on trauma, communication, and so on.

[Hepatica]

This is a hard one, and it's up for me as well, as I have a lot of family birthdays at this time of year, and I revisit what I want and need and expect.

What it has come down to for me, is where am I in terms of healing my nervous system? Because when I am around the toxicity of my FOO I have a trauma response. I go home, cry, fall into bed and sometimes feel extremely hopeless. I have not come far enough in healing my nervous system to risk the progress that I've made to avoid backsliding and I'd be so afraid to re-injure myself.

And has your mother changed? I guess that is what you would find out. But from what I understand a PD does not generally have the self-reflection skills to change for the better.

But the bottom line is, how would you perceive where you are in your healing process? If you feel that her bad behaviour would not bother you, because your nervous system has healed enough to tolerate any bad behaviour, that would be what I would be considering.

[Oscen]

Hepatica - very true. A good way of looking at it. No, my nervous system is not healed enough yet to tolerate my mother. Thanks 

[Andeza]

Yes, I would never recommend making any big decision, like whether or not to attempt contact again, whilst still healing. It leaves you too vulnerable. The beautiful thing here is that you don't have to decide today what you're going to do in the future. You can say to yourself that you're still healing, and you're not in a good place yet to make any sort of decision whether yay or nay. And so all you end up saying is, you don't have to choose today.

[Boat Babe]

Hepatica makes a very good point here. For you, breaking NC would make you vulnerable to head-fuckery and emotional pain and injury, setting you back a few months at least. Don't do that to yourself.

It's like that definition of insanity. Keep doing the same thing that always fails in the hope that it will miraculously, somehow, magically be different this time. It won't.

Sending hugs

[Fortuna]

I really would like to attack her and make her feel bad and acknowledge the way her shitty behaviour has affected me.

Are you ready to reach out if you are still this angry (no matter how justified)?

I feel like I haven't tried enough before I draw a line under this relationship and move on, but I'm literally scared by the prospect of making contact with her again. I fear her. I know that going in, it would test every skill I've developed in terms of boundary setting, communication, self-confidence and self-esteem, the works. 

Do me a favor, write down all the times you did try and how it went. Do you have any evidence it will go differently next time? I'm betting that fear is telling you how many times you did try and exactly how it went.

This decision is hard because it puts me so far out of the norm in terms of society.

Actually something like 1 in 4 people are estranged from other adult family members. It's not that outside the norm, it's just few people talk about it.

I went no contact with my mom about the same time you did. The only differences is I'm probably 20 years or so older and my Dad is no longer alive so I don't have the extra added desire to see the other parent that is still attached/enabling my mom. I knew it was going to be forever. Since then I've been able to do the work and see exactly how damaged a person my mom really is. I have a habit of forgetting the horrible things she says and does so I keep a list now. (I went NC for adults dealing with grownup issues, but since them I've been remembering more of my childhood and how she just really could be bothered to be a decent human being.) My only regret is not doing it sooner. If you've been doing the work for over a year and still fear contact, it may not be time yet. Give yourself the time you need to heal and develop any mechanisms you need to deal with her. You deserve that time. you are worth it. Then when you are ready you can contact them if you choose.