So is it a mental illness?

[p123]

Saw things a bit clearer tonight....

Phoned Dad and told him I was coming to visit tomorrow. It was like he'd won the lottery - I thought he was going to start cheering. It was very strange. I'm not that exciting!
And I'm just bringing a few items of groceries and you saw me last week....

Its almost as if he's obsessed with the whole thing.....

Ties in with what happened a few months ago. He forgot to the end thecall and I heard "thank you God, thank you God, thank you God" . Same situation.

His behaviour has been very intense. Its like hell or high water I've got to visit. And he'll do ANYTHING to make it happen.

I'm wondering - is this an obsession/mental illness to ensure he gets his narc supply from me? It just seems so OTT.
So is it a mental illness? It appears to have exceeded the bounds of slight selfishness now into an obsession with him.

[Andeza]

Well, p123, personality disorders kinda ARE mental illness. Matter of fact, I think I said that to you at some point, but I could be wrong.

[Cat of the Canals]

The obsession is a symptom of the mental illness: along with the manipulation and guilt trips and lack of empathy you've described previously. When we say these behaviors are textbook, it's meant literally, as in the textbook used to diagnose all mental disorders (the DSM-5 in the US, not sure if different countries have their own versions or not).

[p123]

So its normal to get so obsessed with getting your own way?

[SonofThunder]

P123, personality disorders are indeed a clinical disorder.  They are an underdevelopment of the brain at a very young age, leaving the mind of the disordered person in a state, similar to a child.   Consider how children behave and then consider the actions of your father.  The PD's in my life act like children but in the body of an adult, and with full adult rights, which allows them to be so harmful at times.   

I am unable to diagnose anyone and most PD's remain undiagnosed unless they end up in a psychiatric visit for some other reason (anxiety, depression, suicide attempt for example).  Even then doctors may only work with what they are given and PD's are skilled mental manipulators so many times they can fly under the diagnosis radar by manipulating the psychiatrist. 

Therefore, in my opinion, the focus for us nonPD's, should always be to protect ourselves, those in which we have a responsibility to protect (minors, elderly, pets, handicapped) and assets in our responsibility. 

SoT

[p123]

P123, personality disorders are indeed a clinical disorder.  They are an underdevelopment of the brain at a very young age, leaving the mind of the disordered person in a state, similar to a child.   Consider how children behave and then consider the actions of your father.  The PD's in my life act like children but in the body of an adult, and with full adult rights, which allows them to be so harmful at times.   

I am unable to diagnose anyone and most PD's remain undiagnosed unless they end up in a psychiatric visit for some other reason (anxiety, depression, suicide attempt for example).  Even then doctors may only work with what they are given and PD's are skilled mental manipulators so many times they can fly under the diagnosis radar by manipulating the psychiatrist. 

Therefore, in my opinion, the focus for us nonPD's, should always be to protect ourselves, those in which we have a responsibility to protect (minors, elderly, pets, handicapped) and assets in our responsibility. 

SoT

Yeh see what you mean......

No chance of Dad ever getting diagnosed. He thinks people with depression just need to "pull their socks up a bit"

[Cat of the Canals]

So its normal to get so obsessed with getting your own way?

Yes, in that someone with Narcissistic PD, Borderline PD, Histrionic PD, Antisocial PD, Obsessives Compulsive PD, and probably some of the others are often very obsessed with getting their way.

No, in that a "normal", non-PD person would not be so obsessed.

PDs are notoriously hard to diagnose (and hard to treat) so I'd hazard a guess that most of the people we discuss on this board do not have an official diagnosis. But if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

[p123]

So its normal to get so obsessed with getting your own way?

Yes, in that someone with Narcissistic PD, Borderline PD, Histrionic PD, Antisocial PD, Obsessives Compulsive PD, and probably some of the others are often very obsessed with getting their way.

No, in that a "normal", non-PD person would not be so obsessed.

PDs are notoriously hard to diagnose (and hard to treat) so I'd hazard a guess that most of the people we discuss on this board do not have an official diagnosis. But if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

Yeh I imagine getting old to be being really chilled, no work to worry about. Having fun with your grandkids etc.

Dad is complete opposite. Worries that no-one is going to come see him, is a massive hypochondriac.

[Leonor]

Hi p123,

My heart aches when I read your posts.

Not so much for your dad

For you.

There is an obsessive component to your relationship with your dad.

It works both ways.

P, you are, and I mean this is a kind and gentle way, just as obsessive about him as he is about you.

It's not your fault. It's how he shaped you and trained you and brainwashed you as a little child.

That little boy is yearning for his dad to protect him, take care of him, guide him, feel proud of him.

He can't do that. He never could. He is broken. There is nothing there but need and mean.

At some point, p, if you truly want relief, you are going to have to give yourself permission to father yourself.

You are going to have to stop obsessing about him. Stop ruminating on him. Stop complaining and diagnosing and venting about him. Stop investing so much energy in "omg what did he do now" and more in "ok what shall I do today."

It's very hard to put the obsession down. As long as you're obsessing, you're connected. As long as you're connected, you might get that "I'm so happy to see you" reaction. You might also get the rage, the disappointment, the lies, the abuse.

In the meantime, all that obsessing is ribbing you of the energy to be a fully-present husband and father in the family that *you* created.

[1footouttadefog]

Pd folks live for preserving their public image.  The false version that they go so very far to preserve.

If he lives in a group home, assisted living or retirement village there is likely a lot of NARC supply to be gained by having an attentive child visiting often.

[p123]

Hi p123,

My heart aches when I read your posts.

Not so much for your dad

For you.

There is an obsessive component to your relationship with your dad.

It works both ways.

P, you are, and I mean this is a kind and gentle way, just as obsessive about him as he is about you.

It's not your fault. It's how he shaped you and trained you and brainwashed you as a little child.

That little boy is yearning for his dad to protect him, take care of him, guide him, feel proud of him.

He can't do that. He never could. He is broken. There is nothing there but need and mean.

At some point, p, if you truly want relief, you are going to have to give yourself permission to father yourself.

You are going to have to stop obsessing about him. Stop ruminating on him. Stop complaining and diagnosing and venting about him. Stop investing so much energy in "omg what did he do now" and more in "ok what shall I do today."

It's very hard to put the obsession down. As long as you're obsessing, you're connected. As long as you're connected, you might get that "I'm so happy to see you" reaction. You might also get the rage, the disappointment, the lies, the abuse.

In the meantime, all that obsessing is ribbing you of the energy to be a fully-present husband and father in the family that *you* created.

yeh I know. Venting does help me though.

[Prototypian]

On the subject of personality disorders as a .mental illness.   That's a tough question since they do show up in the DSM as a diagnosable disorder except that for these, the manifested symptoms are a personality with specific traits.  An illness has a diagnosis, a cause and a treatment or a way to cope (a missing limb or loss of sight can both be given coping strategies if not treated).  Depression, anxiety, panic attacks, addiction, even bipolar or obsessive compulsive disorder (not OCPD) can have a patient see that their problem is affecting them and potentially relationships with others.   I've learned that for personality disorders, the PD individual can view the world as though they have absolutely no problem and their family, friends, coworkers or people they interact with are "wrong" and the view internally is difficult if not impossible to change.  But it doesn't manifest as an addiction or a depression type of mental illness.   The PD can be considered as someone who is wearing a pair of sunglasses that taints the entire world into their shaping of personality.   They could believe they are right and need to control everything around them or that their loved ones exist to serve and be their personal playthings in a relationship or that they simply can't trust anyone they come into contact with.

But treating it means that the patient with mental illness (personality disorder) needs to become aware of the actual world without sunglasses and that it is the "right" way to behave.  That's where the treatment by a highly qualified professional can help.  But if you are dealing with a highly functioning narcissist or OCPD individual it is likely that they are competent, successful and  manipulative enough to pretend in therapy while believing that the therapist and family and friends are just wrong and don't understand.

I feel for you and I understand.   It's hard to change behaviors when you want to (diets, exercise, learning to play piano through practicing) but if someone is smart, manipulative, high functioning and with a personality disorder sometimes we just have to accept their disorder and protect ourselves with strong boundaries or cut off the relationship.

I'm not a therapist so this isn't clinical advice, it's just an opinion based on reading a lot of materials here and in books about personality disorders.

[Hazy111]

Pd folks live for preserving their public image.  The false version that they go so very far to preserve.

If he lives in a group home, assisted living or retirement village there is likely a lot of NARC supply to be gained by having an attentive child visiting often.

Wow thats perceptive . Bang on the money , i never realised that was narc supply too. Probably boasting how his family always visited "the king" (my words.) Thankyou 1footouttadafog. Im still learning.    Mine was obsessed with manipulating visits . Either me, but mostly my sister or her family to visit.  He would often say how other people living there "had been dumped by their families, no one comes to visit them"