Daughter and her bags of trash halted

[Prototypian]

I need my own sub forum (kidding).

My youngest daughter decided to clean her room.  She is her mother's daughter so there is a lot of crud but she decided to convert from a little kids style room to a teen style room with better places to study, sit and do older girl stuff.   She would up with two 55 gallon trash bags full of stuff.   

I trust a 15 year old girl to decide for herself if things are important and I did take up heirloom toys like Thomas the tank engine set, a complete dollhouse play set and the board books because I can see either their donation potential to younger kids or even grandkids since the toys don't wear out and are universal.   

But my spouse decided that the daughter can't throw those bags out.    I'll have to give DD credit because she did not back down.   She stood up and said she didn't want to wait, she just wanted to send it to the street for trash and she was very angry.   I admit she lost the battle but I was so impressed to see her standing up.   The bags are still in the garage but she has made it very clear she wants to get rid of it.  I stood up for her but my spouse wouldn't back down and we could tell it was headed for an explosion but the girls room is clean!

[SonofThunder]

Congrats to your  DD for standing her ground!

Is DD interested, if the bagged items/some of the bagged items are 'another girls treasure' vs truly trash, to request to donate the bags to less fortunate kids?   Would your spouse deny DD the pleasure of the charitable and thoughtful donation (which is a WIN for DD)? 

SoT

[notrightinthehead]

Are you back home again?

[1footouttadefog]

What if?.....

What if you and your daughter put the bags in the car and took them to a garbage receptical, or the dump.

There would be an explosion, but would it end.  Would it be over at some point?  What is the real cost of tKing the bags away.

Would the outcome after the explosion be different from the day to day unpleasantness.

It it possible to create a new norm?

[Prototypian]

You know, it's a circle.  Not a new norm.   It's just a circle of life.  One thing we all know about her is that she never lets thjngs go.   Its probably something that a lot of non PD spouses married to PD people feel.  In our case it's not manipulation or gaslighting for control.  It's the overwhelming attachment to things and the self righteous selfless service to elected local politics.   If we throw something out, something gets broken, something gets misplaced or a thing gets changed or damaged we will hear about it forever.   Assuming forever is 20 plus years so far.   Have resorted to sneaking things if my own that have Ben mine since before we were married into the trash only to have her angry when she realized I had thrown away my 1980s era ski gloves.  They no longer fit, are not waterproof and I have a much more modern pair and they were mine in high school and we didn't even meet until college.   She has passive aggressively brought this up every time that closet of winter stuff is opened.   

Fear of waste is her single bigfsst fear.   She once unplugged the dishwasher behind the sink (I figured it out) when she was leaving for a trip.   She knows if she is gone I will run the dishwasher at night whether it is full or not.   I might even run it twice if things aren't quite ckean enough.   If she leaves for a trip she tries to make me promise I won't run it until she gets back.   The reason, she can't stand that it is not 100 percent full when it runs.   She has cried to me over the waste of money. 

I am a senior executive, our house is paid off, kids college is paid for, retirement is full and she has has bawling screaming crying fits with me over the waste of the expense of an I completely full dishwasher.   I can recall that being a screaming fight that was literally dishes being smashed while she screamed that "if none of us give a shit why should we even have dishes"

That's why we don't try the new norm because the violent angry emotional behavior is always willing to go to a level that is really quite scary and you never know if it will be an aluminum can in the trash instead of the recycling or a discarded political sign from 6 years ago or a vacuum bag casually tossed in the trash.   Any of these things can promote the interrogation and violent anger.   It's never directly ohsycal against us but it's loud enough, damaging enough and scaled to such a powerful radical intensity that we have been conditioned to not try it
   We can't simoly say to ourselves, "it's her problem" because she doesn't let herself be ignored like that in the face of something being discarded.   

[1footouttadefog]

I seriously don't think I could abide with that.  I think I would hVe don't some unkind things as revenge.

Offering my house for a hoarders segment on the local news, inviting competiting candidates for a dinner interview,  many things come to mind


You have kept cool longer than I would have.  There are meds that could help, but I am sure she would not consider it a problem that needs help.

There is a saying that comes to mind here

"you do you"

At some point it comes down to what matters to us.  If the commitment to the marriage is more important than everything else then that is you doing you.

I am in a place of figuring out what me doing me looks like.  I am now my spouses guardian, we are not acting as married and have not been for a long time.  As he declined I am as a parent. 

[D.]

Jinjin I am really sorry you are having to experience such inappropriate and, from my perspective, abusive behavior.  There were a couple of things that come to my mind when I read through this thread and what happened:

1.  I strongly identify with your daughter.  My father behaved like your wife.  If he didn't get his way he would be "indirectly" physically aggressive as in tone of voice, threats, throwing things, etc.  It was frightening.  My parents stayed married.  At the time (secretly) and to this day I wish they had divorced.  You are such a compassionate, supportive parent and I guess I just encourage you to explore the current and long term affects on your children by her behavior.

2.  On the topic of divorce my religious beliefs very, very strongly discourage divorce.  However, sometimes there are two truths in religious scripture.  Ultimately I decided removing myself from the "ungodly" (abuse towards me) took precedent over the teachings about divorce.  Because being married to my husband, (and later I  also realized being in the presence of my biological father), placed me in direct  and constant contact with ungodly behavior that would damage my soul.  And it also damages the soul of the perpetrator...

3.  I understand and respect a belief to stay in marriage.  I also know that I would not have left my first husband of over 20 years if I didn't ultimately realize how his uNPD behaviors were harming our children.  For me that was the final straw, and although I still loved him at the time, I had to protect them.  Something I wish my mother had understood...

Whatever solutions you discover on this journey certainly are yours and I love what is said about your discovering you.  Perhaps part of that for all of us is reaching out here for more perspectives.  I just felt it important to do so.  I  wish you and all of us the best as we figure this out.