Fake niceness

[CagedBirdSinging]

The thing that's wrecking my head right now is stbxpdH being so "nice"

I have put up with 5 years of sullen,  moody, humourless, nasty, moaning, critical, mostly silent behaviour. Now he is bouncing around the place, grinning and cracking jokes with the kids, and I just know it's so FAKE.

He is doing this to try to win me back, and acts like I am the one with the problem- why can't I hop on board with this new chatty, cheerful version of him?

I have been trying to make conversation with this man for 5 years. I have spent 5 years trying to cheer him up, trying to get a laugh out of him, trying to lift the dark cloud of misery from my home. Now he's all chirpy and cheery, I actually find myself feeling really angry!! I want to cry.

Mostly I hate seeing him do this to our kids. He is so fake nice with them. I'm not as nice as he is being! Sure, I have great fun with them, and give them so much love. But I also tell them to brush their teeth and pick their socks up etc! He doesn't do any of that stuff, he is just angelic with them all the time. Its like watching my children being brainwashed. What if he turns them against me? I'm so stressed and scared. I hate this fake niceness! It feels like another form of gaslighting- which it is, right?!

[pianissimo]

The technical explanation is that the nice gesture is part of the abuse. It's a set-up. You have seen how it plays out. That nice act doesn't address the past abusive behavior, it distracts you from it. The unwillingness to hop on board with it would be the gut feeling that's warning you.

I suppose, emotionally, we need people in family to be consistent, and we need an explanation when they act differently to feel safe. That makes them predictable. This also builds trust, and, again, we feel safe.

I draw from my experience with my parents when I answer questions here. So, my mom and father are nice to me, but that doesn't mean anything to me, because they are not predictable. After they become abusive (yelling or losing it because of low blood sugar or something), I want them to tell me "Look, I'm terrified when this and that happens, so I yell, and I'm sorry", or something equivalent, but they never do that. When I confront them about their abusive behavior, they play the victim like "So, I can't express how I think?" or "Do whatever you like, it's not like you (including other family members) pay attention to what I say".  So, next time they are nice, it's actually horrible of them because that nice act aims to shush the victim. I think those nice acts deserve a big "F... YOU", but, by that time, we know better to say it. It's a horrible feeling to play along and it's a horrible feeling to  witness others fall for it. Technically, I don't know if this still counts as emotional abuse, like being aware of the abuse but the failure to address it.

[Lauren17]

I believed in the chatty, cheerful version of uBPh for more than 15 years.  Those sullen, withdrawn, angry times were the outliers--at least, they were in my mind.  When I learned about the toolbox and started using them consistently, the sullen, withdrawn, angry person came to stay.
We recently had a long visit from a close family member.  Chatty, cheerful H popped up again. This time, I found that it made me really angry.  It just showed me that he does know how to behave like a husband and father, he just chooses not to!
I like the hardest part for me is to see him doing this to my kids and to see them responding as if it's genuine. I cannot step in and say anything, no matter how much I want to.  It's a different, and very painful type of double-bind.

[Boat Babe]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's continuing abuse.

Chances are he can't keep it up.

Stay strong and get yourself as much support as possible .

[Cat of the Canals]

PDmom does this all the time. I think when it comes after bad behavior, it is absolutely part of gaslighting.
Mom's pattern was:
1. Have an extreme rage episode over something trivial.
2. Give the silent treatment while stomping around slamming cupboard doors and glaring at anyone who dared look at her, as if YOU were the one being abusive to HER.
3. Mom eventually realizes she completely overreacted but will NEVER admit or apologize, so she simply goes back to normal, with an extra dose of ISN'T THIS NICE? added on top.

And there are two parts to the gaslighting component. The first is that she has moved past her inappropriate behavior without acknowledgment and expects you to do the same. The message is: Let's all rugsweep together now! The second is that if you were to say, "Hey, you said some really awful things, and I'm still upset..." they get to say, "Why are you dredging up the past?" or "I moved on, why can't you?" Painting it like you're trying to continue the drama when all they want is to get passed it. Until it happens again, of course.

[Tribe16]

The message is: Let's all rugsweep together now! The second is that if you were to say, "Hey, you said some really awful things, and I'm still upset..." they get to say, "Why are you dredging up the past?" or "I moved on, why can't you?" Painting it like you're trying to continue the drama when all they want is to get passed it. Until it happens again, of course.

Were you eavesdropping at my Mom's house? 

[Cat of the Canals]

Were you eavesdropping at my Mom's house? 

I must have been, because I've never actually heard this happen with my mother... NO ONE, as far as I know, has ever called her on her crap. Which is another issue in itself.

[Gettintired76]

My wife just gets extremely angry saying the vilest things, throwing thing etc. then it's my fault that I did all those things to her that she's not dealing with it she's leaving, then the nice comes and I used to get drawn into it but now I pretty much know it's bullshit and barely acknowledge it.

[WearyHusband]

So sorry for what you're going through and have experienced over the years. I'm in a LT relationship (married 20 years - highly chaotic) and have only recently become aware of SO many BP/NP dynamics I've seen in my marriage that have become much more severe the last few years.

I've had a couple strange experiences with my uPDw with what seems similar to what you describe as "fake niceness". In 20 years together, she's rarely apologized, though she is not aware of it and  berates, accuses, and gaslights. Recently I've been breaking away from the dynamic I've so often fallen into of placating, apologizing, acquiescing to her demands, making excuses for her behavior, feeling responsible for her mood swings, etc. It's been like a one sided relationship where I'm almost always in the wrong, with me continually hearing of my faults and digging up a thousands ways I've failed her over the years. My self-esteem was in shatters and I was filled with so much shame and false guilt.

Six months ago, I began to become aware of my deeply entrenched Codependency patterns, started a 12-step CODA group, have been devouring resources, going to therapy, etc. I started setting boundaries and rebuilding my self-esteem. I found Out of the FOG as well, which was like a "lightbulb" find where I said, "OMG, other people are going through what I am going through and get it."

Last night, my wife said something rude to me, completely unwarranted, in front of our kids. I calmly, but firmly called her out on it and told her I would like it if she would speak to me in a different way. She replied to me in what I would describe as an "over the top", theatrical tone, like a sing-songy voice with a huge smile on her face. With exaggerated hand motions, she said, "Oh! I'm sorrrrrrry! I apologize for being rude and disrespectful!"

I was perplexed. It sounded like pure sarcasm. Her tone and body language completely contradicted the words that were coming out of her mouth. I thought she was being sarcastic.

I said, "If you continue speaking to me like that, I will leave the room."
She said, "What!? I'm being sincere!!!"
I said, "Ok, it sounded to me like sarcasm, but if you say you're sincere, I believe you."
I want to believe she is genuinely trying to adjust to the changes I am making in myself and the boundaries I am setting for myself. I wonder if perhaps she has no idea how to connect her emotions and body language with her words.
The PD reality is very hard for me to understand.

[Tribe16]

Weary Husband,
I'm sorry that you are experiencing this with your wife. I can't relate as mine is with a parent and not a spouse, but I feel for you and I wonder if this "Over the top sarcasm" is common with BPD. My mom does this all the time.

"Oh, I'm just a horrible person aren't I?"
"I'm a real B***h, aren't I?"
"You just had the WORST childhood ever, didn't you?"

I'm not convinced she actually believes these things, since there appears to be no sincerity or remorse on her part. I think it is a deflection to end a discussion actually - because my knee-jerk reaction is to say something like "No, I never said that, blah blah blah."

There's a guy on YouTube that I love, Dan O'Connor - he gives you the scripts to use when people do stuff like this. Like make insults, passive-aggressive comments, etc. You might try checking him out - I like having scripts that I can practice. I haven't actually had the opportunity to use this right now as Mom has given me the silent treatment for over a month now, but I've had some fun practicing for when the time is right! 

Good luck and kudos to you for getting involved in CODA and learning and growing! So much better than staying stagnant which is what our BPD family members are doing.

[hhaw]

My  stbx ASPDh turned on the interest, movie stores and ice cream treats with our children after I filed divorce. 

The kids really didn't know him well and he wasn't involved in their lives up to the point he shut down his business, at Christmas and didnt't leave the house until he did so many crazy things he was forced to move out AND I got a restraining order.

The thing about cheerful happy dad is.... the kids knew who he was BEFORE happy dad showed up.  My oldest dd was more impressed with the ice cream and movies.  My youngest, however, admitted she missed them, but never really "liked him" meaning her father.  She was about 5yo when she said that and that's the relationship her father cultivated with her up to that point.

Children are creatures of opportunity, sure, but they thrive with a good routine and consistent parenting.  They want stability and boundaries. 

Stay steady. Don't let the PD's behaviors throw you off or bait you into outbursts you'll regret and the PD will point to in court and with the kids.

Let him spend his energy being Mr. Nice Guy.  He'll tire of it soon enough, esp if he's not getting the results he wanted from you.

You can talk to the kids honestly about this about face from their father, if it comes up.  Validate their feeings and perceptions. Ask them what they think about it.  In our case ASPD was criminally dangreous and a crisis T became necessary for the kids.  She told the children their father was "sick" and that was how we explained the PD behaviors and what happened in our family.

You have to decide what age appropriate explanations you're going to give the children when their PD father escalates his PDbehaviors in order to gain your complaince and fails.

Make a good plan and stick with it. I hope you have supporters who understand what you're going through.  Keep them in the loop.  Ask for help.   If you limit the PD's voice and presense in your life you'll feel stronger sooner.
Good luck,