How much Why?

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Lauren17

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How much Why?
« on: July 23, 2021, 01:30:53 AM »
Finally told uBPDh that I'm planning to file.  At first he seemed unsurprised and complacent.  After about an hour, the hoovering started.  Reminding me of when we first met, asking why, apologizing, declaring he'll do whatever it takes to make this work.
He keeps asking why I'm ending our marriage.  I so want to start listing the lies, the manipulations, the financial control, the years of dumping his emotions on me.  But I haven't.  I've stayed calm.  I've stuck to my summary explanation.  I've done my best to show compassion for his feelings.
I'm torn, because I feel that I owe him more.  But I know that however much he believes right now that he will change, the truth of the matter is that he won't or can't. (who knows which)
How much of the why did you share? 
In short, I'm looking to my OOTF team to send me encouragement to stay the course
ďIím no quitter, but I finally quit living on dreams. Iím hungry for laughter and here ever after, Iím after whatever this other life brings.Ē
-Kenny Rogers

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Bunnyme

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Re: How much Why?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2021, 03:05:56 AM »
It sounds like you are already staying strong in a terrible situation.  With PDs, the whole seeing the error of their ways part never really comes.  Nor does the acceptance of responsibility.  In my experience, I always wanted to give all the reasons why hoping for a rational response, but I only ever got excuses or the situation twisted into somehow being my fault.  Either that or the martyr routine of "you are right.  I'm just a terrible person" blah, blah, blah...hoping for me to say "oh, no you arent!"  My words were usually used against me later on. 
Stay strong!

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Lauren17

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Re: How much Why?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2021, 12:47:31 PM »
Thank you, Bunnyme
I knew this would be hard.  And it is.  It's also different that I anticipated, so that's throwing me off some.
ďIím no quitter, but I finally quit living on dreams. Iím hungry for laughter and here ever after, Iím after whatever this other life brings.Ē
-Kenny Rogers

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D.

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Re: How much Why?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2021, 02:40:29 PM »
Having divorced unPD myself about 10 years ago I just want to validate it's hard, and at the same time so freeing.  In my case the unpredictably and inconsistency was always one of the greater challenges for me. 

As for people changing I guess in spite of everything I have seen changes for individuals, but not relationships without a whole lot of effort for everyone.  The toxic interactions of your past already happened.  They cannot be undone.  And he is only offering to change because of the consequence of things ending.  From what I see it did not come from him.   

So if he wants to change, great...but that's on him and his path.  It's time to focus on yourself and healthy relationships in your own life.  Stay strong, a lot of self/soul care, and get support where you can.  You'll get through this and look back knowing it was worth it.

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Kat54

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Re: How much Why?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2021, 11:48:44 AM »
Itís a very hard road to go down but you seem to be handling it well so far. Stick to remembering what you need for yourself.

My ex was not going to make any changes in fact he stated that to me and he didnít even say anything to get me to stay, never could admit any wrong doing on his part. It was a really difficult pill to swallow. My unhappiness was all on me, which I get but it was what he was doing that made me so unhappy.
He may have wanted to split also though he never saidÖ he liked being the victim.

I did a lot of journaling during that time because when I started feeling twinges of guilt Iíd read back about all the things my uNPDh did over the years because it would leave my mind, not sure if it was some kind of thing to protect myself from all the emotional and verbal abuse.

Iím coming up on 1 year post divorce. It was the single worst time of my life but the weight that left me and the new life I have is amazing. No regrets. And thankfully once the divorce was final things with my ex got better and today we are in a much better place and do things together as a family with our two adult kids when we need to.

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BeautifulCrazy

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Re: How much Why?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2021, 05:28:33 PM »
Oh Lauren! It sounds like you already have a solid non-engagement strategy and a good idea of what to expect if you go there with trying to answer. Stick to your Medium Chill!!

The demands to know "Why?" can potentially go on forever, especially for those of us who tend to get caught in circular arguments (any answer you give is so likely go there) or who are prone to JADEing. (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain).
If I could go back in time, I would have a few stock phrases cued up, ready to play on repeat. Maybe something along the lines of,
"Because this is what I have chosen. I don't wish to discuss it any more.", "It is what I prefer to do."
Or, "This is my decision. I am sticking to it."
A handful of MC exits would have been helpful for me back then too, to avoid engaging. Having to use the bathroom, return a phone call, check the laundry, meet my mother.....
I shared way too much of the why because deep down I was hoping the change would materialize. I held on, hoping the words and reassurances would translate to reality. They didn't. And the whys I shared became weaponized the instant the mood changed.

You don't owe him anything, not even an explanation.
You do owe it to yourself to do what is right and healthy and safe for you.

Not only are you clever and capable, you are so much better informed and better prepared than I was. You are going to do great with this!
Sending loving encouragement and big virtual  :bighug: :cheer:

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hhaw

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Re: How much Why?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2021, 08:37:48 PM »
L:

You've already explained to stbx hundreds of times.  Perhaps more.

He's trying to drag you into old patterns, make you drop your guard, give in to one of his many upcoming promises IF you JUST do A, he'll do Z.  Promise.

The truth is, you have an alligator by the tail and he's going to twist that way then switch directions and twist the other way when you least expect it.

It'll feel like riding a bucking bronco...
Expect kindness, cruelty, offers to give you a " friendly" divorce  if you'll just " be nice."
Of course, being nice will be 1 of 100 things you could sabotage your case with and weaken your position.  Perhaps get your divorce thrown out, humiliating, or turn your attorney and court officers against you.

Do not have conversations with him, at all, if you can swing it.  Your mental health will improve the more distance and quiet you cultivate for yourself
 

Silence his voice in your head and heart, certainly in your ears, bc he's going to disrupt your sleep, threaten you, threaten your cherished possessions and escalate from there, bc his tactics have always gained your past compliance.  He knows they will again and it's time to get quiet, focus on your breathing and ask yourself.....
How far do I think stbx will go?  He'll escalate his behaviors, but does he hold a scorched earth policy or does he not?

Will he destroy himself in order to destroy you/keep you from leaving?

Some PDs are very dangerous when cornered.  Some aren't.

Listen to your intuition.

Limit contact with him....are have none.  Even better.  You'll recognize yourself coming back to you.  You'll feel your strength and familiar voice again....stronger, lighter, happier and contact with him will slow that amazing reunion.

Honor yourself, as priority.

You know you'll be fair, so stop fretting about the stbx and his escalating tactics....he doesn't want your answers.  He wants you to believe you can control him IF YOU JUST do a, b and c.

He's lying and you aren't responsible for his emotions and feelings.  You never were, but you felt like you were.

That's over now.  Once you file, limit contact to get out of divorce court more quickly, limit expense and mitigate trauma to both of you.

If you stopped talking to him today, it's likely he wouldn't believe you're serious about the divorce for 6 weeks and if he did....if he did....every time you look at him or speak or leave a note he'd believe he can change your mind again.  You'd have to start all over again with zero contact for 6 weeks for him to believe it's really over.....again.

Imagine how difficult this will be....to have contact with him. 

Get your cherished things out of his reach.  Hide your evidence.  I hope you have level headed supporters to help you through this.

You should lean on people who understand your situation and let everyone else go, ime.

Good luck.  This too shall pass.
hhaw



What you are speaks so loudly in my ears.... I can't hear a word you're saying.

When someone tells you who they are... believe them.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."
Nietchzsche

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness."
Eleanor Roosevelt

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Lauren17

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Re: How much Why?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2021, 10:59:02 AM »
Thank you to everyone who offered with kind words and support.  I'm logging on as often as I can to read them. 

L:

You've already explained to stbx hundreds of times.  Perhaps more.

He's trying to drag you into old patterns, make you drop your guard, give in to one of his many upcoming promises IF you JUST do A, he'll do Z.  Promise.

The truth is, you have an alligator by the tail and he's going to twist that way then switch directions and twist the other way when you least expect it.

It'll feel like riding a bucking bronco...
Expect kindness, cruelty, offers to give you a " friendly" divorce  if you'll just " be nice."
Of course, being nice will be 1 of 100 things you could sabotage your case with and weaken your position.  Perhaps get your divorce thrown out, humiliating, or turn your attorney and court officers against you.

Do not have conversations with him, at all, if you can swing it.  Your mental health will improve the more distance and quiet you cultivate for yourself
 

Silence his voice in your head and heart, certainly in your ears, bc he's going to disrupt your sleep, threaten you, threaten your cherished possessions and escalate from there, bc his tactics have always gained your past compliance.  He knows they will again and it's time to get quiet, focus on your breathing and ask yourself.....
How far do I think stbx will go?  He'll escalate his behaviors, but does he hold a scorched earth policy or does he not?

Will he destroy himself in order to destroy you/keep you from leaving?

Some PDs are very dangerous when cornered.  Some aren't.

Listen to your intuition.

Limit contact with him....are have none.  Even better.  You'll recognize yourself coming back to you.  You'll feel your strength and familiar voice again....stronger, lighter, happier and contact with him will slow that amazing reunion.

Honor yourself, as priority.

You know you'll be fair, so stop fretting about the stbx and his escalating tactics....he doesn't want your answers.  He wants you to believe you can control him IF YOU JUST do a, b and c.

He's lying and you aren't responsible for his emotions and feelings.  You never were, but you felt like you were.

That's over now.  Once you file, limit contact to get out of divorce court more quickly, limit expense and mitigate trauma to both of you.

If you stopped talking to him today, it's likely he wouldn't believe you're serious about the divorce for 6 weeks and if he did....if he did....every time you look at him or speak or leave a note he'd believe he can change your mind again.  You'd have to start all over again with zero contact for 6 weeks for him to believe it's really over.....again.

Imagine how difficult this will be....to have contact with him. 

Get your cherished things out of his reach.  Hide your evidence.  I hope you have level headed supporters to help you through this.

You should lean on people who understand your situation and let everyone else go, ime.

Good luck.  This too shall pass.

Hhaw, this is exactly what he did!  He whined and begged for a few days.  Then he suddenly dropped all of that and offered me the "nice divorce" with no arguments if I would agree to a separation first.  I told him I would think about it.  He popped out of bed early the next day, declaring that he felt so much better after our talk!  Of course he does, he thinks he's back in control now.
I've thought about it, journaled, talked to a trusted friend.  And I began to see the manipulation in his words, in his actions, and in his "perfectly reasonable" plan.  I'm worried that I said too much.  But I'm trying to offset that by telling myself I did the best I could in an awful situation.

Unfortunately, I cannot go no contact because we have children and because we are still living in the same house.  Since the nice divorce offer, I've been sticking to MC as much as possible.

I have to think on the scorched earth policy idea. My instinct is that he won't do that. But I will carefully observe.
ďIím no quitter, but I finally quit living on dreams. Iím hungry for laughter and here ever after, Iím after whatever this other life brings.Ē
-Kenny Rogers

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hhaw

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Re: How much Why?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2021, 03:23:09 PM »
Get with your attorney and supporters.

Make an exit plan.

Stick to that plan, no matter what the PD pro.uses....every time you deviate you weaken your position and add time, trauma and expense, ime.

That means you can al.ost certainly count on a trial OR preparing fully fir trial with the pD settling on the courthouse steps, as they say.  In reality, you'll likely hammer out details in a little conference room  near the courtroom your trial will be held in.

When this happens...
If the PD says he agrees....
DO NOY Cancel your trial UNTIL everyone signs the Agreement AND you have a filed and STAMPED copy IN your hand

Never cancel anything, ever, bc this will drag out if you let the PD drag it out.  Do not.

One minute re thing....when you agree to settlement discussions require any agreement be drawn up by hand at THAT meeting.  Do not agree to let attorneys retire to their offices to craft that agreement, bc it will be expensive AND the PD will likely say he decided to go to trial after all.  He will hope you run out of resources and sanity and drop your case, bc remember ....he will escalate the crazy, pretend to make nice then flip back and forth to crying, being cruel and manipulating your children.

Shorten this process up.

Stay focused and on track with a good plan.

Do not fear a trial.  Often it's the quickest way out of divorce with a PD, ime.

Be calm.... Don't let PD says trigger you into outbursts.  Document all of his outbursts.

Don't ever stop trial prep....ever.  The of wants you to have dashed hopes over and over, bc it's demoralizing and you might fall into a dark place if you don't understand you're stuck till you get yourself out.

You can't protect your children, but you can mitigate harm by getting out of court quicker and remaining the calm, stable and consistent parent they need.



hhaw



What you are speaks so loudly in my ears.... I can't hear a word you're saying.

When someone tells you who they are... believe them.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."
Nietchzsche

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness."
Eleanor Roosevelt