How to create more opportunities for kids to see grandparents?

[Rst1024]

I have been no-contact with my side of the family for 7 years and haven't regretted that decision.  My husband's side of the family - My MIL is very critical and likes to be in control and calling the shots, and I've always hated having to interact with her.  However, my husband and I feel like it is healthy for the kids to spend time with her and we have never been concerned about her being alone with the kids.  The kids love her and are always asking when they'll see her and my FIL next.

My in-laws have always been welcome to have the kids over to their house or take them out on an outing but they very rarely do that (maybe once per year).  We invite them over for all the kids' birthdays and all holidays.  This used to be really hard for me to handle and I would get really anxious, but I'm much better at it now.  I'm comfortable having her over to our house because I feel safer than going over to her house where she acts like she's running the show.  Up until now, this was as much interaction with my MIL as I could handle.  Many times, my MIL will turn down the holiday invitation because she likes to have a formal party at her home (I think she likes being in control of the big holiday) even though it is usually just my sister-in-law attending.  So what ends up happening is my kids miss out on seeing their grandparents.

I sometimes feel guilty that I'm turning down opportunities for my kids to see their grandparents because it doesn't feel safe for me such as going over to their house for Christmas Day for a formal dinner (even though I give the in-laws an alternative option of coming over to our home).  Is it time to just suck it up and go over there for the holidays, knowing that I'll be miserable but I'm doing it for my kids?  How do I make this happen while still protecting myself and not feeling vulnerable?  How can I create more opportunities for the kids to see their grandparents while only having to interact with my MIL minimally myself?  Thanks for your help!

[Call Me Cordelia]

I have a lot of thoughts, but first: Why are you invested in fostering a relationship between your kids and your in-laws? It appears that you are giving more than your in-laws, the grandparents in these grandparent-grandchildren relationships. I’m seeing particular effort on their part maybe once a year, whereas you are currently hosting them multiple times a year. I’m seeing that it’s more important to your MIL to have the formal dinner on Christmas instead of spending it with her grandchildren. And yet, you are taking the responsibility and feeling the guilt of someone else’s priorities. Is that accurate?

I realize I’m interrogating you and I’m sorry if I’m putting you on the defensive. No obligation to answer directly. I am after all just a stranger on the internet. 

I have been in this place in my own family of making the majority of effort of grandparent relationships with my children. In my case it didn’t work at all. The grandparents were just disinterested, and it wasn’t my fault. I doubt it’s your fault either. Based on your other post your MIL sounds very difficult and I don’t blame you a bit for prioritizing protecting yourself from her controlling and critical tongue. Good modeling of boundaries for those kids! This is especially tough having needed to make the choice to go no contact with your own FOO. Also me. Going on 4 years. In my case my IL’s were my kids’ “last chance” at any kind of extended family relationships, so the FOG may have been thicker than it would have been without that additional grief.

[engineer31]

First, I want to say how sorry I am that you're going through this. I dealt with something very similar for a long time. My ILs have been very hurtful to me as an individual and to our marriage. I used to put up with the hurt, triangulation, manipulation, hypocrisy, etc just for the sake of the kids. I used to put myself into miserable situations and told myself I was doing it for the kids because the kids love them and vice versa. It would take WEEKS, sometimes MONTHS after interactions with my in-laws to start feeling like myself again. To start feeling like I was safe again. They live 1000 miles away from us and still caused hell on our marriage. I tried for a long time to hide whenever I would breakdown, but eventually my kids started noticing. I understand your guilt for turning down those opportunities. It is OK to feel guilty, AND you offered them a different opportunity that YOU are comfortable with. IT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM IF THEY DECLINE. Being a grandparent is a privilege, not a right. If they want to be in your kids lives, THEY should put in the effort. My IL's constantly complained that I would never put in effort to come see them (they never made me feel welcome) they just would just complain to my DH about it. This last Christmas I told DH that I had finally had enough and that if they didn't stop gaslighting me and brushing everything under the rug, that I wouldn't be going for Christmas. So, he told his parents that WE were not coming and my MIL proceeded to tell everyone that would listen in their little town that I am keeping the kids away from them.  My FIL works remote and my MIL doesn't work, so they could easily come to visit. I work full-time and my DH is in school full-time working on his degree and we have 2 littles and 2 dogs, so it's not easy for us at all, plus I only get a certain amount of vacay a year which I would rather not continue to use for these people. A few weeks ago we cut them out completely. We told them no more communication and if they did not respect that, then they would be blocked. I'm not saying that you and DH need to go NC, that is just what we needed to do. I spent a year and half in therapy, learning that if it's toxic to me, it's toxic to my kids. If I am not happy, I cannot give my all to my kids, which is what they deserve. YOUR mental health comes first. I don't know if that was helpful, but it's definitely a conversation to have with your DH.

Edit to add: my IL's are more worried about the way they are viewed as grandparents. They want us to send all the pictures and put in all the effort. They want to hold the grandchildren on a pedestal without being respectful and kind to the parents. They don't want to put in the effort to come visit, but they want to be able to show off pictures to say "look how cute OUR grandkids are"

[Fiasco]

Not getting how you forcing yourself to be around people you don't feel emotionally safe around, for example bringing them to a formal Christmas dinner and being "miserable", is supposed to benefit your kids.

[bloomie]

Rst1024 - a couple of thoughts as I am reading through your post/question. Maybe... what is happening is that underneath it all is a dream of how it could be and what it would mean to have in law parents/grandparents who are warm, welcoming, gracious and flexible. Whose priorities are keeping connection and building memories with their adult children and precious grandchildren.

And maybe part of the pain and work you are facing is they are not even taking you up on the gracious offers you have made.. meals, holidays, time with those grand babies and grand kiddos.

Is it possible to lay that dream down and let it go? Grieve what is not there and possibly consider that going toward people who are not responsive or reciprocal, who create an atmosphere that is not hospitable, can create a great deal of anxiety all around that your family will pick up on and forcing things may cause more harm than good?

Something I had to come to terms with in my own parents and in laws is that they were not interested in grandparenting my children. They 'loved' our children's accomplishments, looks, talents, achievements, special celebrations, but they didn't even really take the time to know them - and our kids are pretty great and so much fun if I do say so myself. And I am sure yours are, too.

I decided - because I believe it really is true... that grandparents have choice to enter in and engage or not. And if they don't, they will have superficial, cordial relationships with our family. All very nice at specific times in the year and otherwise in the wind pursuing their own lives - which did not involve our children or us until they wanted them to or it was important to them.

I am a grandma now and I can tell you that what I suspected then is definitely true for me - grandparent is like having dessert every day. It is a blast! I woke up recently nose to nose with my littlest grand having climbed into our bed early in the morning after a sleep over and her saying...'Hello, Wake up!.' And my heart melting... even at o-dark-thirty in the morning. 

I share that to say... you WILL have those precious grandparent/parent relationships and your then adult children will revel in the love you and your DH offer and share with them and their families some day. There is a great deal of hope and healing in continuing to build a beautiful, strong and loving family of choice and letting expectations of our elders who are showing limited or no interest go.

The other thing a dear friend shared with me back when I was worrying about the lack of elder generational family influence in our kids lives... she encouraged that as we intentionally built community around our family there will be people who step into those roles in our kids lives. And that has been absolutely true!

My heart hurts with yours! And yet, I am so thankful your children have a parent who is tenderly wanting more and better for them and the lengths you have considered going to for that to happen. You are doing enough. Your children are safe and loved and whatever the grandparents do offer... well... that is just an addition, but not central to the kids wellbeing.

You can put this down and rest a bit! Your kids are covered. I just know they are.

Strength and wisdom to you!

[D.]

Rst1024,

It sounds like you are a very present, healthy parent who pays close attention to her own wellness and that of the children.  I suspect that at this point you are role modeling something very important.  That of boundaries to keep you own personal health and wellness intact.  So often children learn more from observing us than anything else. 

It wasn't very long ago that I wished my kids would want to spend time w/their upd/en grandparents.  At the time I was in that fog and really didn't understand how toxic their presence was for everyone.  I also felt quite isolated myself at one point. 

Looking back on it now and reflecting I am grateful they didn't too much time with them...they really needed the loving support of our faith community/healthy friends/FOO.  To this day my son has very fond memories of some grandparent type figures from our FOO.

I wonder if their are any healthy people who could provide some of that generational love for your own children?  Maybe make cards for a retirement home?  I don't know.  But ultimately your in-laws are choosing to make themselves unavailable through their behavior, not yours.

For me I am in the early stages of grieving the parent loss for the present and future.  It is sad.  On the other hand, being healthy and having a healthy relationship with your own children is an appropriate priority.

Now my own adult children want to be around me, want to talk with me, express gratitude, and hopefully will have a healthier reality than was my own.

That will be your and your family's future. 

The generational healing is happening.

[Rst1024]

Not getting how you forcing yourself to be around people you don't feel emotionally safe around, for example bringing them to a formal Christmas dinner and being "miserable", is supposed to benefit your kids.

I don't know.  I think a lot has to do with wondering how much I am internally overreacting to my MIL as a result of having such a bad family of origin - me being hypersensitive to controlling behavior or critical comments, for example.  I have seen this referred to as your internal "injustice meter" being broken, as a result of your traumatic upbringing.  So how bad is she REALLY, and if she's not that bad, is it fair to limit my kids' opportunities to see her just because of my anxiety or I'm uncomfortable?  I think it is beneficial for my kids to see their grandparents for what time they can (at some holidays and birthdays) which wouldn't even be happening if I didn't push myself to be around my MIL (and this was "miserable" at first).  I don't know, you've given me a lot to think about.  Thank you for commenting.

[Rst1024]

I have a lot of thoughts, but first: Why are you invested in fostering a relationship between your kids and your in-laws? It appears that you are giving more than your in-laws, the grandparents in these grandparent-grandchildren relationships. I'm seeing particular effort on their part maybe once a year, whereas you are currently hosting them multiple times a year. I'm seeing that it's more important to your MIL to have the formal dinner on Christmas instead of spending it with her grandchildren. And yet, you are taking the responsibility and feeling the guilt of someone else's priorities. Is that accurate?

I realize I'm interrogating you and I'm sorry if I'm putting you on the defensive. No obligation to answer directly. I am after all just a stranger on the internet. 

I have been in this place in my own family of making the majority of effort of grandparent relationships with my children. In my case it didn't work at all. The grandparents were just disinterested, and it wasn't my fault. I doubt it's your fault either. Based on your other post your MIL sounds very difficult and I don't blame you a bit for prioritizing protecting yourself from her controlling and critical tongue. Good modeling of boundaries for those kids! This is especially tough having needed to make the choice to go no contact with your own FOO. Also me. Going on 4 years. In my case my IL's were my kids' "last chance" at any kind of extended family relationships, so the FOG may have been thicker than it would have been without that additional grief.

Thank you for your comments.  Yes, I am definitely putting ALL of the responsibility and worry on me.  I often wonder how much I am internally overreacting to my MIL as a result of having such a bad family of origin (to clarify, I don't think she has a PD but fleas?) - me being hypersensitive to controlling behavior or critical comments, for example.  I have seen this referred to as your internal "injustice meter" being broken, as a result of your traumatic upbringing.  So how bad is she REALLY, and if she's not that bad, is it fair to limit my kids' opportunities to see her just because of my anxiety or I'm uncomfortable?  I think this is why I often feel guilty and responsible for the limited relationship - if it wasn't for me putting up boundaries, my husband would go along with what my MIL wanted and the kids would see them more.

But I do feel like I put most of the effort into providing opportunities for the kids to see them, and my in-laws don't take the opportunities.  They see the kids when it fits my MIL's agenda and it's convenient for them - when she can present the ideal picture of a happy extended family all together at holidays.  And I bear the emotional burden/worry - my husband supports me but doesn't worry about this.  Although he has not said this to me, I get the feeling that he thinks there's such limited interaction because I'm not comfortable seeing them more, and not because of their lack of interest when I've provided opportunities.  He makes a lot of excuses for them.  He seems fine with leaving things be, but I constantly field questions from my kids as to when they're going to see Nana and Grandpap again, and why they can't go over to their house like their neighbor friends do.

My husband and I had a long talk tonight  about me feeling "guilty" and I told him I don't want to feel this way.  I want the burden off of me.  I told him that we've told his parents that they're welcome to take the kids to do an activity or play at their house and we've never turned down a request of theirs to do this, but he made a lot of excuses (maybe they don't know, maybe they're waiting for us to ask them, maybe they don't want to overstep).  I told him I don't want this burden on me.  He's going to call his parents to make this clear, and I also told him I would like him to field questions from the kids as to why his parents don't see them often.  I think this would take the burden off of me.

Thanks so much for your advice.

[Rst1024]

Rst1024,

It sounds like you are a very present, healthy parent who pays close attention to her own wellness and that of the children.  I suspect that at this point you are role modeling something very important.  That of boundaries to keep you own personal health and wellness intact.  So often children learn more from observing us than anything else. 

It wasn't very long ago that I wished my kids would want to spend time w/their upd/en grandparents.  At the time I was in that fog and really didn't understand how toxic their presence was for everyone.  I also felt quite isolated myself at one point. 

Looking back on it now and reflecting I am grateful they didn't too much time with them...they really needed the loving support of our faith community/healthy friends/FOO.  To this day my son has very fond memories of some grandparent type figures from our FOO.

I wonder if their are any healthy people who could provide some of that generational love for your own children?  Maybe make cards for a retirement home?  I don't know.  But ultimately your in-laws are choosing to make themselves unavailable through their behavior, not yours.

For me I am in the early stages of grieving the parent loss for the present and future.  It is sad.  On the other hand, being healthy and having a healthy relationship with your own children is an appropriate priority.

Now my own adult children want to be around me, want to talk with me, express gratitude, and hopefully will have a healthier reality than was my own.

That will be your and your family's future. 

The generational healing is happening.

Thank you.  It's great to hear of a great relationship with your adult children, very encouraging to me.  Thank you for reminding me that my children have other grandparent figures - we are very close to my husband's grandfather on his dad's side, great-aunts and extended family of that generation.  They are all in their 80s and 90s so I am sad that we're not sure how much longer we'll have with them but grateful that they want to be involved so much.  My kids call their great grandfather weekly (or more!).  He sends them cards and little packages in the mail.  Before Covid we were driving out once a month to see him and the other aunts 4 hours away.  We would all pile in and stay with him in his senior apartment, go out to eat and the kids would just play with him all day.  😊 thank you for reminding me of this.

[Rst1024]

Rst1024 - a couple of thoughts as I am reading through your post/question. Maybe... what is happening is that underneath it all is a dream of how it could be and what it would mean to have in law parents/grandparents who are warm, welcoming, gracious and flexible. Whose priorities are keeping connection and building memories with their adult children and precious grandchildren.

And maybe part of the pain and work you are facing is they are not even taking you up on the gracious offers you have made.. meals, holidays, time with those grand babies and grand kiddos.

Is it possible to lay that dream down and let it go? Grieve what is not there and possibly consider that going toward people who are not responsive or reciprocal, who create an atmosphere that is not hospitable, can create a great deal of anxiety all around that your family will pick up on and forcing things may cause more harm than good?

Something I had to come to terms with in my own parents and in laws is that they were not interested in grandparenting my children. They 'loved' our children's accomplishments, looks, talents, achievements, special celebrations, but they didn't even really take the time to know them - and our kids are pretty great and so much fun if I do say so myself. And I am sure yours are, too.

I decided - because I believe it really is true... that grandparents have choice to enter in and engage or not. And if they don't, they will have superficial, cordial relationships with our family. All very nice at specific times in the year and otherwise in the wind pursuing their own lives - which did not involve our children or us until they wanted them to or it was important to them.

I am a grandma now and I can tell you that what I suspected then is definitely true for me - grandparent is like having dessert every day. It is a blast! I woke up recently nose to nose with my littlest grand having climbed into our bed early in the morning after a sleep over and her saying...'Hello, Wake up!.' And my heart melting... even at o-dark-thirty in the morning. 

I share that to say... you WILL have those precious grandparent/parent relationships and your then adult children will revel in the love you and your DH offer and share with them and their families some day. There is a great deal of hope and healing in continuing to build a beautiful, strong and loving family of choice and letting expectations of our elders who are showing limited or no interest go.

The other thing a dear friend shared with me back when I was worrying about the lack of elder generational family influence in our kids lives... she encouraged that as we intentionally built community around our family there will be people who step into those roles in our kids lives. And that has been absolutely true!

My heart hurts with yours! And yet, I am so thankful your children have a parent who is tenderly wanting more and better for them and the lengths you have considered going to for that to happen. You are doing enough. Your children are safe and loved and whatever the grandparents do offer... well... that is just an addition, but not central to the kids wellbeing.

You can put this down and rest a bit! Your kids are covered. I just know they are.

Strength and wisdom to you!

Bloomie, thank you.  I was crying after reading your post.  You pinpointed it exactly.  If I came from a healthy family, if I had loving, supportive parents that wanted to be involved, I wouldn't sweat this.  My kids would already have 2 loving grandparents, and I would make opportunities available to my in-laws but wouldn't feel guilty about it.  I am so sad for my kids that they don't have this, and that's why I'm putting so much into trying to make this in-law relationship be that.

The story of you cherishing your grandchild waking you up had me crying.  I often talk to my husband about what it will be like when we're grandparents, how I want to help and encourage my adult children and spend so much time with my grandchildren.  Thank you for sharing this story.  Thank you so much for commenting and for your encouragement.

[Leonor]

 

For Bloomie, as always.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I know a few days have gone by, but I wanted to come back and say that I think it's GREAT that you are taking a step back from brokering the relationship between your kids and in-laws, and that your husband is explicitly inviting them to step up into their role as grandparents. The ball is in their court, the outcome is in their hands.

This quote stood out a mile high to me:

I often wonder how much I am internally overreacting to my MIL as a result of having such a bad family of origin (to clarify, I don't think she has a PD but fleas?) - me being hypersensitive to controlling behavior or critical comments, for example.  I have seen this referred to as your internal "injustice meter" being broken, as a result of your traumatic upbringing.  So how bad is she REALLY, and if she's not that bad, is it fair to limit my kids' opportunities to see her just because of my anxiety or I'm uncomfortable?  I think this is why I often feel guilty and responsible for the limited relationship - if it wasn't for me putting up boundaries, my husband would go along with what my MIL wanted and the kids would see them more.

Maybe so. They would see them more on your MIL's terms. But would that really be healthy? I think we've poked plenty of holes in that narrative but it does take time to really believe it. What works for your FOC (including you!) is more important here than what MIL wants. GOOD for you setting boundaries and not allowing your MIL to run the show exactly the way she wants, to your detriment. As I said above, she is choosing her priorities here. She is choosing to be more distant as a result of not calling all the shots. If that's what's more important to her... well that's useful information.

I've been there too, with my DH and IL's more than happy to put all the blame for our tension on how I was "so sensitive" and letting my bad experience with my FOO prevent me from trusting then when they are the good grandparents and putting up *boundaries* (said sneeringly) blah blah blah and putting more of the same old FOG on me all the while. If they were actually caring about your experience, I would hope they would go out of their way to show you that care, respect, and what-can-we-do-to-be-more-supportive. Listening more than they make requests. Instead I see scapegoating and controlling behavior.

[Rst1024]

First, I want to say how sorry I am that you're going through this. I dealt with something very similar for a long time. My ILs have been very hurtful to me as an individual and to our marriage. I used to put up with the hurt, triangulation, manipulation, hypocrisy, etc just for the sake of the kids. I used to put myself into miserable situations and told myself I was doing it for the kids because the kids love them and vice versa. It would take WEEKS, sometimes MONTHS after interactions with my in-laws to start feeling like myself again. To start feeling like I was safe again. They live 1000 miles away from us and still caused hell on our marriage. I tried for a long time to hide whenever I would breakdown, but eventually my kids started noticing. I understand your guilt for turning down those opportunities. It is OK to feel guilty, AND you offered them a different opportunity that YOU are comfortable with. IT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM IF THEY DECLINE. Being a grandparent is a privilege, not a right. If they want to be in your kids lives, THEY should put in the effort. My IL's constantly complained that I would never put in effort to come see them (they never made me feel welcome) they just would just complain to my DH about it. This last Christmas I told DH that I had finally had enough and that if they didn't stop gaslighting me and brushing everything under the rug, that I wouldn't be going for Christmas. So, he told his parents that WE were not coming and my MIL proceeded to tell everyone that would listen in their little town that I am keeping the kids away from them.  My FIL works remote and my MIL doesn't work, so they could easily come to visit. I work full-time and my DH is in school full-time working on his degree and we have 2 littles and 2 dogs, so it's not easy for us at all, plus I only get a certain amount of vacay a year which I would rather not continue to use for these people. A few weeks ago we cut them out completely. We told them no more communication and if they did not respect that, then they would be blocked. I'm not saying that you and DH need to go NC, that is just what we needed to do. I spent a year and half in therapy, learning that if it's toxic to me, it's toxic to my kids. If I am not happy, I cannot give my all to my kids, which is what they deserve. YOUR mental health comes first. I don't know if that was helpful, but it's definitely a conversation to have with your DH.

Edit to add: my IL's are more worried about the way they are viewed as grandparents. They want us to send all the pictures and put in all the effort. They want to hold the grandchildren on a pedestal without being respectful and kind to the parents. They don't want to put in the effort to come visit, but they want to be able to show off pictures to say "look how cute OUR grandkids are"

Thank you so much for your comments, love this part of what you wrote:  "It is OK to feel guilty, AND you offered them a different opportunity that YOU are comfortable with. IT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM IF THEY DECLINE. Being a grandparent is a privilege, not a right. If they want to be in your kids lives, THEY should put in the effort."

I am going to keep saying to myself that it's not my problem if they decline.  I've given them opportunities and it's on them for not seeing the kids in a way that makes everyone, including me, comfortable.

[Rst1024]

I know a few days have gone by, but I wanted to come back and say that I think it's GREAT that you are taking a step back from brokering the relationship between your kids and in-laws, and that your husband is explicitly inviting them to step up into their role as grandparents. The ball is in their court, the outcome is in their hands.

This quote stood out a mile high to me:

I often wonder how much I am internally overreacting to my MIL as a result of having such a bad family of origin (to clarify, I don't think she has a PD but fleas?) - me being hypersensitive to controlling behavior or critical comments, for example.  I have seen this referred to as your internal "injustice meter" being broken, as a result of your traumatic upbringing.  So how bad is she REALLY, and if she's not that bad, is it fair to limit my kids' opportunities to see her just because of my anxiety or I'm uncomfortable?  I think this is why I often feel guilty and responsible for the limited relationship - if it wasn't for me putting up boundaries, my husband would go along with what my MIL wanted and the kids would see them more.

Maybe so. They would see them more on your MIL's terms. But would that really be healthy? I think we've poked plenty of holes in that narrative but it does take time to really believe it. What works for your FOC (including you!) is more important here than what MIL wants. GOOD for you setting boundaries and not allowing your MIL to run the show exactly the way she wants, to your detriment. As I said above, she is choosing her priorities here. She is choosing to be more distant as a result of not calling all the shots. If that's what's more important to her... well that's useful information.

I've been there too, with my DH and IL's more than happy to put all the blame for our tension on how I was "so sensitive" and letting my bad experience with my FOO prevent me from trusting then when they are the good grandparents and putting up *boundaries* (said sneeringly) blah blah blah and putting more of the same old FOG on me all the while. If they were actually caring about your experience, I would hope they would go out of their way to show you that care, respect, and what-can-we-do-to-be-more-supportive. Listening more than they make requests. Instead I see scapegoating and controlling behavior.

Thank you.  I love this, I'm providing them opportunities to see the kids in a way that's comfortable for our family (that includes me!) and they're the ones choosing not to take those opportunities and that needs to be on them, not me.  Thank you!