Elderly dad lining me up for shaming

[nanotech]

My UNPDdad is 89.He has had the very localised and slow moving form of prostate cancer for the last 12 years. He's been lucky in that the standard hormone treatment has worked for a very long time.
This Spring, he had his usual blood tests and his marker has started to rise. Not a big rise, the doctors weren't too concerned. They changed his meds and said no more hormone treatment.
They put him on 'watch and wait' till the  summer. They are testing it soon. If it's gone up again, they may suggest further treatment. I've read up on the treatments and it's quite a complex bag of possibilities.
WIt's very dependent on the type of cancer. Plus my dad is so elderly- I'm wondering if any of the options will actually be available to him?

We In the past, my dad has often put a spin on all things medical. Basically, I can't trust him to tell the truth. In order to stay in control, he tends to say what he wants to be true.
I think he must have already suggested he was dying to my UNPDGCbrother. I got a very over dramatic text from brother.telling me he was likely going to have chemotherapy very soon. He also told me how I should be around dad. I'm years older than him. He basically fussed then told me I must keep calm. Ok 
When I spoke to dad and asked him directly, no chemo as yet, it was just going to be a meds change.

This spinning works both ways with dad. When mum was dying, she went into remission for a time. My dad rang me and told me to rejoice because she had been cured.
She was still dying, dad.

I've been trying to visit dad ever since UK restrictions were lifted, but he says no visit 'until I know what my results are'. He's due more blood tests soon, but he doesn't know when. I've not seen him in the flesh for 17 months. I'd love to give him that all important hug.
He hasn't seen me either, but of course clearly feels he can wait longer.
Okay dad.

He is seeing lots of other family members, but no one from my side- he won't see my daughter - she's offered him a park trip with his great grandchildren. Nope.

I'm concerned - of course I don't want him to be ill, but I also feel a drama coming on, where I'm expected to play a role for the family.
My dad keeps telling me it's only me he wants to speak to once he 'knows'.  I'm the 'good listener' and the 'sensible and calm' one, apparently.
🤔 I dislike it when he singles me out in this way. I don't want to be the 'favourite', because the flip side of that is the scapegoat.

It happened to me before, when my mum was dying. I was asked to play a ' fix it' role by her. She wanted to see her GC son get married, and time was short.
I happily obliged, and  jumped in with both feet, thinking what could go wrong, I'd got their blessing. But when GC Brother complained about me, my mum denied she'd ever asked me to talk to him about bringing his wedding forward.

(Can I just say that I did say no at first. But then mum said it was her dying wish to see him married, and was I going to deny her that?)

There followed months of acrimony and gaslighting, then lo and behold, he DID bring his wedding forward, and mum rang me to tell me that was always HIS plan.  
At the time I hadn't heard of the term gaslighting.

So mum she saw her son married, and despite my  nearly being banned from the wedding, I got to go ( big wow) but I was ignored, seated at the back, and had to endure scowls from the bride's  family!  Branded a  troublemaker, and apparently someone who then had callously blamed my objectionable behaviour on my very sick mother.
I wouldn't speak to me either.
Omg.
I had to go on medication and I had therapy to help me cope with that. I'm aware I shouldn't have been a flying monkey for mum, but I was treated like the devil incarnate.

So I'm a bit triggered!

I don't really want this new/ old role.
I'm never needed or valued, still having that scapegoaty air about me,  and I'm  certainly not the favourite - then suddenly I'm So special and wonderful a listener.... yet I can't see him yet not till he has his huge news to drop on my head only.
Arrrgh.
I just do not want to spend hours discussing  dad's health or the lack of it with him. I'm wary, scared and of course already guilty. Once he draws me in, I will feel I'm in shark- infested waters.

I'm feeling like I should avoid this talk- yet I do need to go see him and of course there's a huge sense of duty in me that hasn't yet been satisfied. I'd much prefer a visit simply for its own sake, not one that's going to feel so  heavy and stressful and charged.
My therapist said that it seems as if  I'd always had to carry all the emotion for the family.
Any ideas?
I feel like India wants me and I can't go back there.

[nanotech]

Eek. I was tired last night when I wrote this.  I rambled and made errors.

I should have written

' I feel like Indiana wants me and I can't go back there.'

I've always  loved that song!

It's interesting. Feeling lost and confused, I wrote a big post out earlier on last evening, but lost it. But the process of writing it out had already flagged up some answers for me. And some strength.
I began to understand why I feel so uneasy about this.
Then on the second writing, humour came  through for me.
What a superpower humour can be to us. As soon as I thought of the song reference I felt better.

I'm trying to think up some strategies.

[thduda]

'I'm concerned - of course I don't want him to be ill, but I also feel a drama coming on, where I'm expected to play a role for the family. '

Know this feeling!

Hang in there, sounds like you have eyes wide open!

[nanotech]

Thanks jd! Yes I think I'll be okay.
I'll be grey rocking, responding with thinking rather than feeling.
It's a sacrifice- I'd rather show my emotions to my poorly dad, but that way leads to a return of all the old enmeshed behaviours.
My whole family struggle massively to deal with emotions in ways that are healthy.
It's either smothering, anger or showing indifference. 
We were also brought up to act out our parents' emotions for them.
My parents thought they had to be in control of everything.  Of course no one can be.
When something awful happens, there's a complete meltdown, and  the pain is passed around like a hot potato, landing finally on the 'chosen' one,  who gets to take all of the  blame. What fun!
Since the whole thing with GC brother I've realised just how dysfunctional my family system is. Prior to that, I denied a lot of red flags.   I've worked on myself through therapy and reading, and had validation through that. I hope you're okay too!

[Hepatica]

Hi nanotech,

I read your posts and feel your unease. Past is precedence right? If there has been no obvious "awakening" with your family, why would you feel safe? I can understand the wording "shark infested waters." Has anyone ever apologized to you about what happened to you? Has anyone ever felt compassion for how you were treated and told you?

I think it's terrible that your mother set you up in the past and then you were thrown into scapegoat role and had to sit through a wedding where you were seated at the back, ignored and scowled at. That kind of social abuse creates a very primal fear in those of us who go through it. We are not dying, but it almost feels like we could die. I've been through it, am going through it now. It's terrible. I totally get why you feel wary.

Remember that you really do not have to do anything you don't want to do. But if you do go ahead and you see your father you also have every right to set clear boundaries if he asks you do something that you're not comfortable with. Be ready for him trying to this. Have all sorts of shields.

You really don't have to go. But if you do go, practice maximum chill, quick boundary setting and be okay with taking care of YOU. You're the one recovering from these old wounds that they caused you. No wonder you were triggered.

Normal families do not create scapegoats. It is not loving. It is the opposite of loving.

Practice self-care!!!

[nanotech]

Thanks so much for your understanding, empathy  and advice Hepatica.
It was pretty horrendous at the time.
I did have my FOC there, which helped. I just did my best for mum. Yep-the woman who'd thrown me under the bus!
My mum could never stand up to GCbrother. She did question him about where I was sitting ( practically in the fire escape) but my GC Brother told her the catering staff had 'made a mistake'. (There was no way they'd done that).
So brother lied to/ gaslighted mum who did the same to me.   
There were all these weird rules about not visiting other tables during the sit -down meal. I followed everything , because I was worried he would stop me seeing my mum again. He'd already got me banned from the FOO house for weeks. I had to agree not to discuss it or deny it further. Then I was allowed to visit my mum.
I knew he'd try to get me banned again again if he could.
None of them were coping with her being terminally ill. That was the problem. Hell, I wasn't either. My unBPD mum ran and triangulated the whole family. She acted out for my NPD  dad and . Of course they were going to fall apart without her. And maybe I would be sad but as the scapegoat I'd had to be strong and I wouldn't fall apart so much.
I'd shown more strength  by being the one to accept mum was dying, when they wanted to believe she'd be here in two years time for the wedding.  So if was a case of 'Kill the Messenger' and  I had to be punished.
I was also cut out of the wedding video. And believe me, once the reception began I was on the dance floor A LOT. 
There wasn't anything he could do about that.  I love dancing.  and it was a welcome stress release. After all, the DJ didn't know I was Persona Non Grata!  GC Brother may have put me in the corner, but I didn't stay there. The looks I got from GC brother and his wife! Omg who has the time and inclination to be that hostile on your wedding day?  My whole FOC got the death stares from them,and many of thd bride's relatives. Some of my own extended family also ostracised me and mine.
Later on, months later, GCBrother kept insisting I apologise for   'lying about mum'. Of course I wouldn't!
I hadn't lied. I think brother wore mum down, and she had to admit the truth. She then told dad she 'might have said something to me after all.'
My dad, who had screamed down the phone at me at the time,causing me to have a panic attack,  did actually apologise to me over this.  After the apology I saw that mum was looking upset and annoyed.
Straightaway after, when my dad had gone out, mum told me that GCbrother's  wife had been invited that day but had declined.
I said I would have been happy to see her at my birthday tea. ( was this the reason for the birthday tea I wonder?)
She then blamed me by telling me that I'd bullied GCbrother's wife, and his wife was now 'afraid of me'.
This was mum telling me that although she'd asked me to help, I must have pushed too hard, so it was STILL MY FAULT and so  WHAM  BANG  there I am again with the full blame. 

That was a weird day. 

The day blame became a pan lid that was surprisingly lifted off- then replaced hard and tight.

I felt so mortified. Mum doted  on this person because she married GC brother.
My sister sat there quietly spectating while that abuse went on.
It was my birthday, and mum had asked me to go see them and have tea with them. I'd gone against my gut instinct and said yes. Wow -after this almighty blow, tears were coming. I held it together until I'd said my goodbyes and been cheerfully waved off in  my car, and then I sobbed all the way home. 
Mum rang me the next day and said
' I upset you on your birthday' and I spent the next hour reassuring her that she hadn't.
None of my sibs showed compassion over this. I was on my own.
My daughter described it as
' mum's whole family is bullying her.'
Mum died the following Spring. Her last days are another story.
Another long post! I am triggered and Hepatica I totally see what you are saying. It is up to me and im not feeling so obliged now. I've remembered. I shall have my boundaries in place and I shan't go rushing round there. I'll start by stalling I think. Emotional distance is the key. Physical distance enables that! Xx

[Sheppane]

Nanotech your title on this thread says it all " lining me up for shaming ".  It's so hard and painful all of this toxic soup of triangulation,  manipulation , control and punishment. I am very familiar with that type of push / pull from GC to SG and back again- all at the whim of someone else. It is mind-blowingly confusing and a very triggering way to live.

You talk about the shark infested waters. As others have already said have you ever been shown compassion here ? Apologies for the abuse ? For the scapegoating? An understanding of your pain?

You don't need to go there at all if you don't want to. I know how hard it is to feel there is no choice but we do have a choice. The problem in dysfunctional families is that our healthy choices rattle the system and send buckets of hot potatoes around ! No one likes it. So hence the scapegoat. 
Yes, healthy families do not create scapegoats.
With roles I find it helps to " resign". Resign from the role someone else has allocated. You don't have to wear the hat of either GC or SG. And you don't owe your time or energy or attention to people who are treating you poorly. It's so easy to deny all these red flags when feelings are not allowed in dysfunctional families. You have you to take care of. You don't have to go. I still struggle with the fear of what would happen if I said no to this kind of display. Sometimes my NO is a quiet firm one , said to myself. And if you need to leave,  you can leave. You never have to stay one minute longer when you are being punished in this way. I have had to learn to trust my body on that one as often I don't catch it in the moment. So if your body is screaming at you that it is triggered- listen to it. A set up is a set up. Be careful !

[nanotech]

Sheppane, I've only just seen this reply- thank you so much. It's perfectly timed. Tomorrow is his hospital appointment.

If it's bad news I'm expecting drama from him and/ or UNPDbrother. Possibly my BPD niece will get involved as well. ( she's got the main flying monkey role these days. )

UNPD brother is furious with me, because I  no longer answer his texts.  He has tried to trample this boundary, but he's failed to draw me back in. Not quite sure what he wants me to do, about dad, except of course, be available as a target, if bad news occurs.
It's such a pity, that at a time when my dad needs sympathy and support, I have to step  even further back. I don't feel guilty about it, just sad. I am empathic, but I'm no longer engaging in 'idiot compassion'. 
You're so right about resigning from the roles, whether GC or SC. They are equally toxic.
Yes you are right. I'm not running up there to 'fix' it all, simply to be emotionally slain for all of my efforts.
Oh and I've never been shown compassion by my FOO. 
Love this forum xx

[1footouttadefog]

It's hard when they need their people the most and then make it impossible for you to connect with and be there for them.

I am dealing with such a scenario with my spouse.

Hang in there.

[nanotech]

It's hard when they need their people the most and then make it impossible for you to connect with and be there for them.

I am dealing with such a scenario with my spouse.

Hang in there.

Thanks 1footouttadefog. I'm so sorry you're going through it with your spouse. That's even harder. You hang in there too. Xx

[nanotech]

Update on UNPDDAD-

his blood results are wonderful. Couldn't be better!
His PSA has reduced by over half, and so he doesn't have to have any invasive or extreme treatment.
He can return to the treatment he's been on for years. It doesn't even involve an oncologist. 😊

I feel like a weight has come off my shoulders, and it's twofold.

One, despite everything, I love him, so I'm  happy that he isn't getting seriously ill. ❤️
I've reached this place where I can feel love and caring, yet using the toolbox on here, I can now protect myself from his manipulations.
It's taken me the best part of a decade to get to this point!
I understand that not everyone on this forum is here or can be here. I get that with some PDs  there is no hope of this juggling trick EVER becoming possible.
With the others the approach has been a non starter. My PD Nsis and Nbro wouldn't accept the changes in me, so I have to be NC with them now.
My main trick with dad is,to think of him as a friend, rather than a relative. I speak to him as such, keeping the chat social and superficial, and very non personal. I'm a bit more formal than I used to be.  I speak with self respect. I medium chill any  attempted hoovering or triangulation. If he brings up other family members and their troubles and complaints, I say something like,
' That must be hard for them' but I've stopped trying to seek approval by jumping in all eager to fix things. I've stopped the 'idiot compassion'.
I don't disclose a lot about my personal life, and I don't pour my feelings into my words.
( Where and when he's tried to revert to the enmeshed relationship, I've put a boundary in place. I'm lucky that it's worked. If it hadn't I would have gone NC. It's work in progress in that I always have to have my wits about me when talking to him. He would love things to revert back into the emotional incest it used to be. )

Two, his getting seriously ill would have been the catalyst for five PDs in the family to all implode, explode and become malignant. 



Ah well! All quiet for a while, I hope. 

I've dropped the rope , but not my guard.

[hhaw]

Go, nanotech!

What an amazing thread about an amazing journey.

So powerful when we realize we (Yes, the royal we) don't have to love people the way they insist we love them. We're free to love them the way we need to and that's Ok.

Even if they don't think it's OK....
it's still OK.

Well done.

[nanotech]

Go, nanotech!

What an amazing thread about an amazing journey.

So powerful when we realize we (Yes, the royal we) don't have to love people the way they insist we love them. We're free to love them the way we need to and that's Ok.

Even if they don't think it's OK....
it's still OK.

Well done.

Thanks so much, hhaw. It took me absolutely ages to drop the resentment I felt about having a dad like this.
When I first came Out of the FOG and began to see things clearly, I was incandescent!

Don't get me wrong,  the old frustration can still knock on the door at times. I may stare at it though the spy hole,  but I no longer invite it in.

If that happens though, it's rare, and  I forgive myself, hug myself, return to the mighty toolbox!

The main thing is to see it for what it is, and to drop the reactivity.

I've got a supportive FOC too, who can spot  the most subtle changes in me.

If that happens these days ( again rare but not unknown) they gently remind me that I know how my dad is, and that my dad isn't going to change.

Years back, when I was way in the FOG, doing the toxic dance and way reactive, my son would say on how when I came back from visiting FOO, I would behave differently with my  my own family, my FOC. 
Differently, as in not in a good way.
I know now that I came back with horrendous fleas, and with my own defensive fight or flight raised to high levels.

I used to scoff loudly and emphatically dismiss this observation from him, as utter nonsense, while proving his point by being reactive to HIM! 

That's the  way the toxicity travels.   

Not any more 😉

He was 100 per cent right. I love him for saying it.
❤️

[1footouttadefog]

Glad you heard some good news.

[nanotech]

Glad you heard some good news.

Thanks outtadefog and I hope that you're okay?
I've read your unsent letter and some other of your posts My heart goes out to you. Please look after yourself xxxx

[1footouttadefog]

I am trying to look after myself to the extent I can with the covid related issues.

I went out for dinner with neighbors the other night.  I felt no quilt that pdh was not here to go also.

I will be rearranging things in the house a bit to symbolize the change.  I will be buying or repurposing some furnitite to replace the "NEST" in my kitchen.   Pdh had a table with a TV on it that he used as a combination desk, shrine, and dining table.  There was a small shelf on the floor under it and he kept weird arrangements of items there and never tidied it.  He has taped things all over the beautiful table top. It will be moved to his space.

I want to get a counter or cabinets that can hold kitchen appliances and free up space in the other cabinets  I am imagining keeping some cookbooks in the actual kitchen area for once in my life.

I already rearranged the bedroom he was using.  It's a work in progress as I empty and clean the closets.  My living room will be back to normal today or tomorrow.

The pets like me having a larger bed and have already claimed territory.

I have a new female friend and it occurred to me I can invite her over for lunch or such and not worry about pdh overwhelming the situation and making it all about him.

It won't be easy and will require alot of pressure to establish a new normal.  It might be better at least. 

[nanotech]

Well done one foot outta.
Space to live and friendships to forge- absolutely.
I admire the positive steps you are taking and the very strong boundaries they represent. I wish you all the very best.

[1footouttadefog]

Family dynamics are always interesting.  Never a dull moment.

Glad some of the "excitement" is offline with the prostrate news and non surgical treatment options

The wedding story sounds absolutely awful. My brother's wedding was a nightmare so I chose to not have one.  Just had a some ceremony in my parents house.  Then went in a terrific honeymoon where we got alot in for the money to be sure.  Looking back not sure how I planned it with no internet and just a Europe on x dollars a day guide.

[nanotech]

Hmm....it was pretty awful,  but the whole episode did kickstart me into the realisation that there was something very wrong with my family. I didn't really get it until after BPD mum passed on. Months later my UNPDdad was still being really abusive. One night after a particularly nightmarish  phonecall from him, I googled ' difficult elderly parents' .
Lo and  behold, up popped some website with the title,  ' Elderly narcissistic parents'.  Aha!