Looking for advice about a possible divorce

[WearyHusband]

I've been married for 20 years to my uPDw. We have four kids. I am a person of faith, and I've been faithful to her throughout our marriage. Gosh, I love her, but I'm considering ending our marriage. I've been in therapy and recovery from Codependency (CODA) for many months. Out of the FOG was like a "lightbulb" for me as I realized, "OMG, there's a whole community who understands what I'm going through." The confusion. The FOG. The crazy making behavior. The extreme mood swings and reactions to trivial things. The circular arguments. The gaslighting. The "baiting". Part of my own journey is realizing that my Christian faith regarding "laying down your life for your wife" has been perverted into becoming a doormat and acquiescing and placating and becoming a man with severely depleted self-esteem. My wife has repeatedly asserted that all our marriage problems are my fault. All her pain is my fault. She asks me, "What would you tell our daughter if she ends up marrying someone like you?" Then, when I bring up these comments and tell her that they are hurtful, she denies saying them. It's crazy-making and logic is seldom part of our relationship.

I read Fjelstad's book, "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist." It was like reading my life. I've been a caretaker to an abusive person who has a lot of unresolved trauma. When she's at her best she is absolutely wonderful. She's a wonderful mom. A great friend and advice giver. But in the privacy of our marriage relationship, it's a different story. We've been sexless for 7 months, the fourth time in the last few years where she's cut off all sexual contact and physical affection. My most common past harmful behavior toward my wife was yelling during arguments (not name calling, but raising my voice and speaking disrespectfully, trying to regain control and power). As I've gone through therapy the last few years, I've healed, apologized to her, and changed. Then things "flipped" and I became
acquiescent the last few years. Placating. Constantly apologizing over and over. Empathizing. I heard such severe attacks on my character, and I took them to heart so deeply that my self-esteem was almost completely eroded. I had severe thoughts of suicidal ideas, thinking that what she said may be true and that I am the cause of all her pain and all our marriage problems. I have experienced so much confusion, along with the pain of feeling so rejected and craving even the simplest gesture of affection and acceptance. In the past, when my wife would berate me, I would argue, defend myself, etc. I realize now that due to me deeply ingrained patterns of codependency, I valued her opinion of me more than God's view of me and my own opinion. I idolized her and looked to her to meet a need that I can only find from God and my care for myself - not in a selfish way, but in a healthy way.

Although I've never laid a hand on my wife in an abusive way, she has been so afraid of me that for several months she refused to ride in the same car with me. It was baffling and irrational. Her fears are her justification for refusing to have sex, and this manifests as her painting a picture of me as "locking her in a pattern of abuse for our entire marriage".

I've told her, "I don't understand it, but If I am abusive, then you need to leave. Half of what we own is yours. Please go if that's what you need to do to protect yourself." She refuses.
I've told her, "Let's go to a third party marriage therapist together to help me understand how I'm abusive." She refuses to go to a marriage therapist together.
We've been in marriage therapy in the past (8 years ago). After three months, the therapist told us that he thought we needed someone with more clinical experience and recommended my wife get a psych evaluation. She denies this ever happened.

My uPDw experienced dissociation and severe abandonment and sexual abuse while she was growing up. Because I know her past, I've tried to be a "rescuer". I really do love her and see so much good in her. But the last four years have become so toxic, I'm considering if I am willing to continue in the marriage. I've been living in a separate room in our house for the last five months to protect myself from her verbal and emotional abuse. What's so frustrating is that she denies saying or doing anything that is abusive. When I bring up specific things she's said or done multiple times, she denies it. I don't think she's lying or gaslighting. I think she dissociates and has no memory or awareness of how she behaves.

My father died a couple years ago.

As I mourned, I told her, "I really just want to be held right now." She said, "I'm sorry. I can't do that." Ouch. That hurt so deeply in a time when I needed a human to be present and offer the comfort and human decency of a simply embrace.

I've been the sole income provider for the 20 years of our marriage. We have four kids, age 19-13. I don't take this decision lightly. I've always thought modeling "toughing it out and staying together no matter what" was the best example we could set for our children. Now I'm wondering what I would tell me kids if they were in my situation (which ironically is what my wife asked me!")

Here's my question and I would appreciate advice from the Out of the FOG community:

1) If I choose to pursue divorce, what are wise things I should consider regarding my children (again, she is an excellent, caring and attentive mother. I don't want to separate my kids from her. Except for how she treats me, I am not aware of ways she harms them.)

2) I've received counsel that BPD/NPD spouses can become highly retaliatory when faced with "abandonment" or divorce. This is so hard for me to believe, but I am realizing my own naivete and propensity to live in "magical thinking" regarding my marriage. What is your experience regarding divorce and the response of BPD/NPD spouses? What might I do to protect myself legally? If (and this is still an "If") I choose to pursue a divorce, I hope to work with an arbiter, not a lawyer.

Would appreciate any advice.

-WH

[escapingman]

OMG, this could have been written by me. My only advice is the same as I would give to myself, buckle up for the ride and get out. I am still buckling up....

[blacksheep7]

Wearyhusband,

I'm sorry that you are going through this.  It's a tough situation with four children. The fact that they are teens, they could have a good understanding and they probably already see what's going on which does affect them greatly.  I do understand your pain and heartbeak of loving your w but  it is not a way to live, always under stress.  She's completely indifferent to your feelings  I see that your w is not accepting any help which means denial in many ways.

I don't have much advice but since you said that you are a man of faith, you could get advice from your church, minister or pastor that can give you probably more suggestions and options.

I'm sure others here will reply.
Take care

[JustKeepTrying]

Oh boy, lots here to unpack but I will keep simple.

First, I am sending you virtual hugs for the loss of your father.  I am also sending you patience, wisdom and perseverance for the next part of your life journey.  I will pray for you that God will keep you close at this time.

Second, talk to a lawyer asap.  At the minimum, know your rights and laws in your part of the woods.  Then, sit with it until you fully understand the ramnifications of those actions.  Journal - journal freely giving into all the conscious and subconscious thoughts.  This will help you decide your next steps.

Third, get a therapist for yourself outside of your marital counselor.  Someone you can trust that you can talk to and work it out with.  It is important that you have a trained person who you can share these issues with - While I understand tha your wife has experienced severe traume - I am sure that living with her has some been traumatic as well.  Just because it not as intense as what she has experienced does not mean it is any less.

Fourth, put all your kids in individual therapy.  Whether they like it or not.  Give them a person they can trust  - a safe place to go to wokr out their issues and help develop the tools they need to live through the divorce and beyond.

FIfth, as for retaliation etc.  Yes, there may be some but there is little you can do and it too shall pass.  I am dealing with unforseen retaliation and it is severely affecting my life but there is little I can do but wait.  Take the high road and pray it will get better in the end.  I now realize I need to take of myself before I can take of others.

Six, and this is the hardest, she may not be the excellent mother you think she is.  And i don't really know as I don't know you but I never would have thought that my OCPDxh would throw my DS (who is autistic) out of the house in the middle of a pandemic.  Never would have dreamed that.  But he did.  And we are all living with the consequences of those actions. 

Like I said in the beginning, I will keep you and all of your family in my prayers.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

Hello,
I read Fjelstad's book twice.....it helped me tremendously.

I listened to a podcast yesterday about divorcing a narcissist. Every situation is different....best advice- try not to focus on the what if's. Find your peace....be clear about your decision and take steps forward. Find your supports .....keep reading the book.

Good luck

[Lauren17]

This is a rotten situation. I'm sad to hear you're finding yourself living it.
I'd also like to recommend  reading Splitting: Protecting yourself while divorcing a borderline or narcissistic. (Details in references, I think)
The thing that helped me when I was in your spot was brainstorming options. Walk out today. Trial separation. Divorce when kids are grown. Etc. I'm sure there are many more. Then sit with those options and start to think through pros and cons of each.
Good luck and keep posting. The Out of the FOG family has helped me more than I can say.

[losingmyself]

I'm just going to second the book that Lauren17 suggested, Splitting by Bill Eddy.
Good luck and God bless

[Penny Lane]

I know you don't want a lawyer but ... you need a lawyer. Even if you go through mediation and don't have a court decide on the final agreement. If others' experience is any judge your ex will become more difficult than you think possible. It will be worth it — but you will be glad that you protected yourself.