When they purposely try to hurt you.... but you don't respond

[JenniferSmith]

One of my family members did something a while back that I can't interpret any other way other than purposefully trying to hurt my feelings.  It was a big thing and involved a major life event - think wedding/birth/funeral.  In each case, when I have told friends about it they are speechless because it is so beyond the pale (not violent or illegal though). They actually get a look of shock on their face for a few moments before they know what to say to me.

I've honestly tried to think of all the possible reasons my family member did this, giving them all possible benefit of doubt, and the only logical explanation that makes sense is that they chose to do something that would deeply hurt me  (based on our history, I know this person to be holding on to a lot of anger toward me) .  I genuinely don't believe I am trying to read negative intent here. There just aren't any logical explanations such as making a mistake, accidentally forgetting, etc. It was actually a series of actions over several days that took awareness and thought, not something like an off-handed remark made in the heat of the moment.

And if they had done this years ago, before I had worked so hard on myself and sorting all this stuff out, it would have deeply, deeply, deeply hurt me.

But this time, I was upset for a few hours. I was hurt and angry. I cried and vented to friends. But that feeling very quickly shifted to me seeing this action as just another example of them purposely trying to hurt me and I wanted no part of such a game. It was as if they made one of the most aggressive chess moves possible and I just pushed my chair from the table, stood up, and walked away from the game completely.

Instead of being hurt, I see this action as being entirely reflective of their limitations and weaknesses, and not about me in any way. Almost as if a small child is throwing a tantrum and hitting you on your shins with tiny fists .... you don't take it personally and get angry at them for the pain.

Its been a while now since this incident happened and my feelings haven't changed much.    Maybe I actually have reached another level of healing where I am secure enough that I don't even need to react to a major provocation.  My honest feeling is almost one of genuine confusion - why would someone ever do such a thing if the purpose wasn't inflict hurt?  And is it possible for someone to try to hurt you and then you are not hurt by their actions?  I think I'm working on believing that I have genuinely risen above this person's ability to hurt me.

I'm sorry for the lack of specific details, but I guess my question is-  have you ever been able to not respond when you know the other person wants a response and/or wants to hurt you?

[Cat of the Canals]

I had some very cruel "friends" in my youth that taught me never to respond to such things. Sometimes I think it's to my detriment, because it isn't really a choice. It's like I'm so deeply in Medium Chill/Grey Rock that I can't respond. I actually have a tendency to feel nothing until a day or two after the fact.

There have been times recently where I wish I had just a touch of reaction in the moment. Not to cry or shout or confront. But to simply state something like, "What a horrible thing to say." Just the tiniest boundary statement that let's them know, "I know what you're doing, but this is all the reaction you'll get out of me." But maybe that's misguided, and I'm better off not reacting at all. I don't know.

Anyway, congratulations. I still think it's a blessing to get to a point where they simply can't get under your skin.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

JenniferSmith - to answer your question, yes.

Personally, I think when we get to such a point that we have the clarity to see an act as hurtful, the insight to realize it was deliberate and then deploy the skills to not respond, I think we have perhaps arrived at a great level of healing. In my opinion, I feel like we have taken back the power position in our own lives. I feel like I want to say "great job".

I also experienced something at a major family event (wedding, not mine) that I thought was too appalling to not be deliberate. It went on for days. I did not react or engage. A few days after, I felt so much better. It was validation that I did the right thing for myself. (Oddly however, I think my FOO just got so much worse.) 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yes, that's what made me really really mean NC for good with my NF. It was evident that his smear campaign was very deliberate in the lies he put in writing, and that it was done with intent to harm me and my children. There was no other reason why he would write certain things, carefully worded to dance along the legal line of libel, with (impossible) time stamps on his allegations the way he did. I made it very clear as dispassionately as possible we were done and if I ever saw him again it would be in front of a judge. And then responded to nothing whatsoever from any of my FOO.

At the time I did not have the ability to see that without a huge emotional reaction that took months to feel at all normal afterwards. I am now able to revisit the facts of what led to my NC and why it is permanent without that kind of emotion. Now it kind of feels detached, like I'm describing something I saw in a movie. If there was another round of it from him it would not be the same, but I still highly doubt I would simply not react inside. It sounds like you are still a human too. I don't think the goal is to never feel these emotions again, but to be able to process them in a way that doesn't other a) take over your life or b) deny whatever genuine hurt is there.

Because you say you want to be beyond giving them any ability to hurt you or cause a reaction at all, I'm questioning that belief. You have removed yourself from the relationship as much as possible. And I get the feeling of pride in your progress in that what would have hurt you deeply in the past was a few-hours blip. I do think that's wonderful and shows genuine healing progress. It sounds like you handled this event with major strength and grace, reaching out for support when you needed it. Well done. But I do think it could be an unfair pressure on yourself to say, "I want to just not have any reaction at all."

If you are indeed saying that. Reading your post again, I realize I may be misinterpreting your goal here. If you mean just not give THEM a reaction or a response, well then heck yeah 100%! I do that all the time. But I still need to express my feelings to a friend or you wonderful people, and I think that is good too. Or at minimum in my journal. I don't stuff down emotions anymore, and I think deciding, "No more emotions about xyz," would be unhealthy for me.  Feelings just are what they are and sometimes the same or similar events provoke widely different responses from me, simply because I change. It's all good. I hope I don't sound terribly patronizing!

[JenniferSmith]

JenniferSmith - to answer your question, yes.

Personally, I think when we get to such a point that we have the clarity to see an act as hurtful, the insight to realize it was deliberate and then deploy the skills to not respond, I think we have perhaps arrived at a great level of healing. In my opinion, I feel like we have taken back the power position in our own lives. I feel like I want to say "great job".

I also experienced something at a major family event (wedding, not mine) that I thought was too appalling to not be deliberate. It went on for days. I did not react or engage. A few days after, I felt so much better. It was validation that I did the right thing for myself. (Oddly however, I think my FOO just got so much worse.)

I like the way you phrased that - "clarity to see an act as hurtful, insight to realize it was deliberate, and deploy the skills not to respond" - that is exactly what happened here.

My goal in life is to be authentic, so I've been mulling over this situation and trying to determine if I am actually being authentic. Thanks for your comments, I appreciate them.

[JenniferSmith]

Yes, that's what made me really really mean NC for good with my NF. It was evident that his smear campaign was very deliberate in the lies he put in writing, and that it was done with intent to harm me and my children. There was no other reason why he would write certain things, carefully worded to dance along the legal line of libel, with (impossible) time stamps on his allegations the way he did. I made it very clear as dispassionately as possible we were done and if I ever saw him again it would be in front of a judge. And then responded to nothing whatsoever from any of my FOO.

At the time I did not have the ability to see that without a huge emotional reaction that took months to feel at all normal afterwards. I am now able to revisit the facts of what led to my NC and why it is permanent without that kind of emotion. Now it kind of feels detached, like I'm describing something I saw in a movie. If there was another round of it from him it would not be the same, but I still highly doubt I would simply not react inside. It sounds like you are still a human too. I don't think the goal is to never feel these emotions again, but to be able to process them in a way that doesn't other a) take over your life or b) deny whatever genuine hurt is there.

Because you say you want to be beyond giving them any ability to hurt you or cause a reaction at all, I'm questioning that belief. You have removed yourself from the relationship as much as possible. And I get the feeling of pride in your progress in that what would have hurt you deeply in the past was a few-hours blip. I do think that's wonderful and shows genuine healing progress. It sounds like you handled this event with major strength and grace, reaching out for support when you needed it. Well done. But I do think it could be an unfair pressure on yourself to say, "I want to just not have any reaction at all."

If you are indeed saying that. Reading your post again, I realize I may be misinterpreting your goal here. If you mean just not give THEM a reaction or a response, well then heck yeah 100%! I do that all the time. But I still need to express my feelings to a friend or you wonderful people, and I think that is good too. Or at minimum in my journal. I don't stuff down emotions anymore, and I think deciding, "No more emotions about xyz," would be unhealthy for me.  Feelings just are what they are and sometimes the same or similar events provoke widely different responses from me, simply because I change. It's all good. I hope I don't sound terribly patronizing!

It sounds like you are getting closer to this point yourself where if this type of action happened again from your NF, you would feel stronger inside, even if it did hurt.

I definitely felt hurt when this initially happened. I have just been trying to sort out how my feelings shifted rather quickly to more of a sense of confusion - like why would this person ever do such a thing?   Confusion feels a bit better to me than intense hurt.  I don't want to deny my feelings or push them away, so its been a process to figure out if this "I'm not interested in playing this game anymore" is genuine and authentic, or just a protective mechanism.

I think its also due to the fact I've spent years sorting out my feelings about this person and since we're mostly estranged, I've had the space to not be constantly triggered by them.  The estrangement has allowed me to develop an inner strength that would have been much harder if I was having to interact with them on a regular basis.  I think all of us here are trying to find a way to have a sense of inner peace despite the shenanigans of our family members.  I think its easier done with some than others.

[JustKathy]

To answer your question, yes, I reached that point fairly early on. When I was in high school my Nmother's actions were causing me so much distress I would break down and cry every time, and every time I could see that she was absolutely delighted that I was suffering. By the time I left home at 18 I had learned not to ever respond to her cruelty, at least not where she could see it.

Once I became aware that my mother had a PD the hurt turned to anger. I was angry that I didn't have a normal mother and I was angry that no one else seemed to see how awful she was, or at least they pretended not to see it. Unfortunately, I did let that anger get to me, which is probably the reason why I ended up with a terrible anxiety disorder. But taking the anger home with me rather than showing it publicly was the best way to handle it. At least I finally had the satisfaction of knowing that I had the upper hand. No matter how hard she tried, she no longer got a reaction out of me. In the end, I was the one who had all the power.

It was as if they made one of the most aggressive chess moves possible and I just pushed my chair from the table, stood up, and walked away from the game completely.

I love this so much. Yes, once you can do that, you've won the game!

[blacksheep7]

[quote author=JenniferSmith link=topic=89264.msg762551#msg762551 date=1630019684
Instead of being hurt, I see this action as being entirely reflective of their limitations and weaknesses, and not about me in any way.
[/quote]

Yes, that is exactly spot on.  Sorry for your hurt.
I went nc with NM a first time and reconnected after three years.  I was not  much informed about the narcisstic personality and coming Out of the FOG back then. All I knew is that she was toxic and hurting me more than doing good.

When I reconnected, she came to my house for the day as usual, once a week.  We were sitting at the kitchen table and she said with no emotion, remorse «you know the necklace you liked (she had promised to give it to me), well I gave it to (my niece, sis dd).  You weren't talking to me anyhow so I hope you don't mind».  
I knew at that very instant that I wouldn't give her the pleasure she wanted.  She wouldn't have told me if she didn't want to hurt me intentionally. I said «no» with no emotion.
What a betrayal, sick.  Childlike behavior. Back then in my mind, I couldn't get that a parent would hurt their child like that instead of trying to work things out. 
Today I am happy that it was given to my only niece that I have contact with. She has emotional intelligence and is the only one that can see and talk about the dysfunction in the family. She went through her own trauma healing with her M, my sister who just shut down when she was young and stayed superficial and frivolous just like NM. I didn't tell her about this and never will.

[JustKathy]

I knew at that very instant that I wouldn't give her the pleasure she wanted.  She wouldn't have told me if she didn't want to hurt me intentionally. I said «no» with no emotion.

Blacksheep, that's also how it was with me. It was VERY obvious when my mother was doing things to hurt me, and that was my cue to keep my cool and not react. My mother also made a habit of giving away childhood possessions, and while it hurt like hell, I just mourned the loss of that item in private while pretending I didn't care.

Sometimes when they don't get the reaction they want they do double down and try harder. When my enFather had me disinherited I didn't react at all. He later had his lawyer mail me a copy of the original will along with the updated will that had me removed, and a letter I was supposed to sign saying I knew I had been disinherited and was agreeing not to contest it. It was a gut-wrenching moment for me, but I threw that letter in the trash and didn't respond. As far as they know, I've been emotionally unaffected by it.

[blacksheep7]

I knew at that very instant that I wouldn't give her the pleasure she wanted.  She wouldn't have told me if she didn't want to hurt me intentionally. I said «no» with no emotion.

Blacksheep, that's also how it was with me. It was VERY obvious when my mother was doing things to hurt me, and that was my cue to keep my cool and not react. My mother also made a habit of giving away childhood possessions, and while it hurt like hell, I just mourned the loss of that item in private while pretending I didn't care.

Sometimes when they don't get the reaction they want they do double down and try harder. When my enFather had me disinherited I didn't react at all. He later had his lawyer mail me a copy of the original will along with the updated will that had me removed, and a letter I was supposed to sign saying I knew I had been disinherited and was agreeing not to contest it. It was a gut-wrenching moment for me, but I threw that letter in the trash and didn't respond. As far as they know, I've been emotionally unaffected by it.

So sorry for your childhood!  I've read much of your posts. Wow, you have much merit.   It take lots of courage to change from reaction to respond. To let it slide but the pain still remains, the scars.   Not easy, I don't have to practice it anymore being nc with all Foo.   It took me a hell of long time to let go my anger.  Near the very end of having a relationship with NM, I became sarcastic towards her, like she was with me. She complained sarcasticly all of our adult life of not getting enough attention, after we left home.  We had gotten some peace and happiness, got out of  living with NF, a Jekyl and Hyde.  She hadn't felt sorry  or comfort us  about the way we were treated, just saying that we were bad because we acted out in petty ways, some not so. But I understand today why I or we (my siblings were like that) hungry for love & attention.  It was only the neighbours who were catered to  dinner parties as all of our family was in Europe.  NF would send us to the museum alone with money, to the movies whatever, out of the house. We were very young, barely a teen.  NM was trying very hard to keep up appearances but every so often, the passive-aggressive remarks were given.  It was emotional torture.  At one point as teens, we built a wall and became frivolous, superficial and remained that way for a long time, even as an adult. It was the best way to live, to be happy or mainly pretend to.   

My sibs and I  would get a greeting, when calling her,  filled with sarcasm of not calling enough!  Heard it for decades, I had enough. 
I didn't show  her love, no affection only the obligated kiss when meeting. I was a dutiful  daughter even though I felt  her indifference in me, the ignoring M type. That's what bugged her insecurity. I would dispute her behavior so I became her blacksheep.

[WonderGirl]

I just posted something similar....a sudden empowerment to not be injured by some B/NPD's bad behavior. It's euphoric, right? Congratulations on your progress and wishes for a future of positivity.

[JenniferSmith]

I just posted something similar....a sudden empowerment to not be injured by some B/NPD's bad behavior. It's euphoric, right? Congratulations on your progress and wishes for a future of positivity.

Yes, it does feel very empowering.  What is sad it that those of us on this forum have had to learn how to develop such a thick skin to protect ourselves from people like this in our own families...

[JenniferSmith]

When my enFather had me disinherited I didn't react at all. He later had his lawyer mail me a copy of the original will along with the updated will that had me removed, and a letter I was supposed to sign saying I knew I had been disinherited and was agreeing not to contest it. It was a gut-wrenching moment for me, but I threw that letter in the trash and didn't respond. As far as they know, I've been emotionally unaffected by it.

You have clearly done a lot of work to get to a point to cope with something like that. Sadly this is the type of scenario I was referencing when I made this thread.... something just overtly cruel and only intended to cause emotional pain.  The more I think about it,  it seems that in order to survive, we have to learn how to not let these people hurt us. We would not be able to function if we just remained perpetual human punching bags for decades.

[Hilltop]

My mother would do or say things to hurt me and for a long time I responded as I thought I had to talk about it to try to help the relationship, in the beginning I just thought it was a misunderstanding or there was something off there we needed to fix or talk about and it would be alright after that.  It took me a long time to work out that she meant to hurt me by her words or actions and that's when I stopped responding and acted like nothing was wrong.  After that she doubled down and tried harder to hurt me to get that response and reaction from me and that's when I finally understood that yes she did mean to hurt me and was actively trying to hurt me.  What she eventually did and said was so obvious, so over the top it couldn't be ignored as anything else.

Although that hurts I found it quite informative.  In the end I woke up and actually saw what was going on which has helped me.  Although its hard to see it as a gift in the beginning, that's how I view it now.  She showed her hand and I chose to walk away from the game.

I think not responding and not reacting is the best option.  In some circumstances I like to say "If you think so".  It lets the other person have their opinion however its not saying you agree, its like leaving it with them however its not agreeing or reacting, its just simply acknowledging that it's their opinion.  At the end of the day any one can have their opinion, its theirs to have, however this is saying that you aren't taking it on board. I wouldn't use this though with really horrible insults, only those negative comments where its good to let them know that meh whatever.

I think its great you have come to a point where you can leave it with them.  To me the end goal, the victory for me is to really understand that its all on them, that their opinion doesn't define me, it isn't true about me.  If they want to say or do something to bring me down that is about them, not me because all of that is the truth.  When you take the emotion out of it, it does seem really silly to think that this one persons idea about you or belief about you is the truth, it really isn't, its just their opinion.

I really believe having a strong sense of self is so important because it really only hurts when we believe the underlying message they are trying to send or we value their opinion when perhaps we shouldn't.  I mean if they mean to do us harm why do we value their opinion about us and once you get that feeling of seeing them sort of removed then yes that is victory, that is freedom because when they do something you see it as THEIR thing, not your own and that negativity then remains with them which is where it should be.

I am so glad you were able to walk away, its such a great place to get to.

[Happypants]

Yes, it does feel very empowering.  What is sad it that those of us on this forum have had to learn how to develop such a thick skin to protect ourselves from people like this in our own families...

.......and trying to stop that protective shield from dulling interactions with non-pds (in my personal experience) 

[bloomie]

I think its also due to the fact I've spent years sorting out my feelings about this person and since we're mostly estranged, I've had the space to not be constantly triggered by them.  The estrangement has allowed me to develop an inner strength that would have been much harder if I was having to interact with them on a regular basis.  I think all of us here are trying to find a way to have a sense of inner peace despite the shenanigans of our family members.  I think its easier done with some than others.

This is key... you have taken the time and space to get clear on what you are dealing with and how you do/do not want to engage. BRAVO!!

I have been in a similar position - just targeted, ugly, deliberate and impossible not to be thought out cruelty.  Often and over time this took place until I had come to expect it and in time, with distance and work it had little hold over me other than to reinforce the vMC I reside in.

I have come to see it like this... the person that did this kind of thing to me was miserable and angry underneath and needed someone to off load that onto. Any emotional response was better for this person than my hard won cool, calm, composed going on with my life and ignoring all of the increasingly outrageous and provocative attempts to get me to engage.

I had outraged her by separating myself from her harmful behaviors and not buying into the family paradigm that exempts her from responsibility for her own choices. Unwittingly, that held up a mirror she was going to smash to pieces by attempting to crush my spirit and destroy my character in other's eyes.

When I turn from emotionally engaging in all of this, when my internal boundaries are firmly in place, in my own case, that person has to rightly sit with themselves and find somewhere else to put their emotional garbage or deal with themselves. Up to them. Not my side of the street.

Does not mean I don't feel anything, because it is quite disheartening and breathtaking to behold another human being acting like this and sad, but I move through those emotions, process them as you have done, and let it go as it is not mine to carry all of this around.