BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?

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wesayro

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BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?
« on: August 31, 2021, 01:41:55 PM »
I am basically NC with most of my family as they have discarded me and my 3 children. NMum seems to be attempting to re-assert control: first through EnDad, now throught BPDSis. Let's call her S1. She and I have, over the years, had a fairly close, but one-sided relationship (ie. she was the only one "allowed" to be emotional, have needs or insecurities and was never available for me as a support - emotionally or practically. She would occasionally spend time with my kids, but only if it was absolutely at her discretion as to when and how it occurred, and not ever because I asked or needed help, despite her being single, having minimal commitments and no children, and supposedly loving and supporting me).
I accepted this, in part because of my family's long-held view that she is incapable of being held to adult responsibilities (discussed by the family in pitying and often unkind ways - any discussion of actual problem-solving or steps to support S1's issues were heartily agreed with but never followed through on). I can now see how divisive this behaviour is, how it has been used on me as well, and how it allows NMum to hold all the strings of control and jiggle them to make everyone dance.

S1 is very enmeshed with EDad and NMum, and as I began to reduce contact with them (after they refused to cut contact with Narc ex-husband, who there is also restraining order against), she became more and more toxic in her interactions with me - but, like NMum, maintaining a lying facade of fake nice. Her fake nice was/is more persistent, confusing, frustrating and hurtful because it feels much more personal somehow. Maybe because she has made more of an attempt to get close to me . I kind of wish she would just yell and swear at me so I could just write her off, but this covert stuff is really twisted. She acts as if nothing I say, do or feel even exists, unless it meets her needs. It feels like a barrage, as I know that NMum is counting on the fact that she has "allowed" enDad to repair his relationship with me to an extent, which means that when S1 feels rejected by me because I don't want to deal with her gaslighting and manipulation, that I will have to put my relationship with my sick Dad on the line doubly - because he will be under the pump from both Nmum and S1.

S1 has been harassing me on and off for nearly a year now. I blocked her number over 6 months ago. When we last tried to discuss and sort things out, she was sarcastic and denigrating to me while i was sharing something personal and vulnerable. I expressed my hurt and got: sorry you feel that way. We had already been barely on speaking terms due to her gaslighting and persistence in defending my Nex-h. I waited two weeks and then told her that I wasn't comfortable having her at my home or to attend my sons birthday, but that she could facetime call him while we sang happy birthday etc. On the day of my sons birthday she arrived at my home. In the days that followed she attempted to make arrangements with my kids to meet with them without my knowledge. I was blamed and vilified for all of this of course. Apparently she didn't deserve to be punished by being banished from her nephew's birthday party, she didn't think I would come to the door, she didn't think she was doing anything wrong, etc etc. All my fault, none hers, all me being awful, cruel, nasty, all her friends agree with her that I am nasty and unreasonable etc.
So in short, no apology or acknowledgment of anything at all  :roll:

Fast forward to yesterday, she contacts me wanting to do family therapy with me.
Then an email from a dispute resolution centre saying that she has requested I attend mediation with her regarding my children and her access to them.
I reply to her email about family therapy - asking if she means the mediation she has already arranged.
She replies no, that's in addition. NOthing else. No explanation of the fact that she's just arranged mediation without my knowledge, or any apparent reason.
I ask why. Silly idea  :doh:
Cue word vomit of made up things, accusing me of arguing with her about her reasons when she's given them previously. Asks in sickening pretend nice manner if I would like her to repeat the reasons that she claims to have previously given but which I have apparently denied the existence of. Then asks in ridiculous flowery lovey dovey language if I have a better suggestion for how we can resolve our issues together.  :stars:
Well for the last point, no, i don't, because she doesn't care about my issues, only hers, right?

I realise now that I shouldn't have engaged, shouldn't have asked why. I was curious, not sure why, as I already had all the information I should have needed, but I wanted to know if maybe, just maybe, she had had some kind of realisation and would just reply with something constructive, or based in reality.

I had so hoped that when Nmum discarded me, it was for real. Now I wait for Edad to call and start the badgering as well  :-\

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nanotech

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Re: BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2021, 03:52:34 PM »
I am basically NC with most of my family as they have discarded me and my 3 children. NMum seems to be attempting to re-assert control: first through EnDad, now throught BPDSis. Let's call her S1. She and I have, over the years, had a fairly close, but one-sided relationship (ie. she was the only one "allowed" to be emotional, have needs or insecurities and was never available for me as a support - emotionally or practically. She would occasionally spend time with my kids, but only if it was absolutely at her discretion as to when and how it occurred, and not ever because I asked or needed help, despite her being single, having minimal commitments and no children, and supposedly loving and supporting me).
I accepted this, in part because of my family's long-held view that she is incapable of being held to adult responsibilities (discussed by the family in pitying and often unkind ways - any discussion of actual problem-solving or steps to support S1's issues were heartily agreed with but never followed through on). I can now see how divisive this behaviour is, how it has been used on me as well, and how it allows NMum to hold all the strings of control and jiggle them to make everyone dance.

S1 is very enmeshed with EDad and NMum, and as I began to reduce contact with them (after they refused to cut contact with Narc ex-husband, who there is also restraining order against), she became more and more toxic in her interactions with me - but, like NMum, maintaining a lying facade of fake nice. Her fake nice was/is more persistent, confusing, frustrating and hurtful because it feels much more personal somehow. Maybe because she has made more of an attempt to get close to me . I kind of wish she would just yell and swear at me so I could just write her off, but this covert stuff is really twisted. She acts as if nothing I say, do or feel even exists, unless it meets her needs. It feels like a barrage, as I know that NMum is counting on the fact that she has "allowed" enDad to repair his relationship with me to an extent, which means that when S1 feels rejected by me because I don't want to deal with her gaslighting and manipulation, that I will have to put my relationship with my sick Dad on the line doubly - because he will be under the pump from both Nmum and S1.

S1 has been harassing me on and off for nearly a year now. I blocked her number over 6 months ago. When we last tried to discuss and sort things out, she was sarcastic and denigrating to me while i was sharing something personal and vulnerable. I expressed my hurt and got: sorry you feel that way. We had already been barely on speaking terms due to her gaslighting and persistence in defending my Nex-h. I waited two weeks and then told her that I wasn't comfortable having her at my home or to attend my sons birthday, but that she could facetime call him while we sang happy birthday etc. On the day of my sons birthday she arrived at my home. In the days that followed she attempted to make arrangements with my kids to meet with them without my knowledge. I was blamed and vilified for all of this of course. Apparently she didn't deserve to be punished by being banished from her nephew's birthday party, she didn't think I would come to the door, she didn't think she was doing anything wrong, etc etc. All my fault, none hers, all me being awful, cruel, nasty, all her friends agree with her that I am nasty and unreasonable etc.
So in short, no apology or acknowledgment of anything at all  :roll:

Fast forward to yesterday, she contacts me wanting to do family therapy with me.
Then an email from a dispute resolution centre saying that she has requested I attend mediation with her regarding my children and her access to them.
I reply to her email about family therapy - asking if she means the mediation she has already arranged.
She replies no, that's in addition. NOthing else. No explanation of the fact that she's just arranged mediation without my knowledge, or any apparent reason.
I ask why. Silly idea  :doh:
Cue word vomit of made up things, accusing me of arguing with her about her reasons when she's given them previously. Asks in sickening pretend nice manner if I would like her to repeat the reasons that she claims to have previously given but which I have apparently denied the existence of. Then asks in ridiculous flowery lovey dovey language if I have a better suggestion for how we can resolve our issues together.  :stars:
Well for the last point, no, i don't, because she doesn't care about my issues, only hers, right?

I realise now that I shouldn't have engaged, shouldn't have asked why. I was curious, not sure why, as I already had all the information I should have needed, but I wanted to know if maybe, just maybe, she had had some kind of realisation and would just reply with something constructive, or based in reality.

I had so hoped that when Nmum discarded me, it was for real. Now I wait for Edad to call and start the badgering as well  :-\

What a tangled web of **** !
Donít permit any badgering. Donít be in contact. Donít go to her mediation.
We have very similar sisters. Iím  no contact with mine, now. Itís wonderful.
I had to withdraw when she railed against my newly erected boundaries.
As regards your ex, I also had a similarly reaction from my BPD mum and UNPD sis, re my violent ex.
They felt sorry for him. It wasnít his fault. They missed him. I ďshould remember the good timesĒ Wth 🤦‍♀️  :sadno:
 They also blamed me somehow, for his violence.
Itís a strike to the heart when your family betray you like this.
I think the meditation plot is an ambush. Be really careful.
Iím sending hugs xxxxx

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wesayro

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Re: BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2021, 12:43:56 PM »
Ugh I'm sorry your family is similar and you've gone through similar betrayals. It seems incomprehensible doesn't it? My counsellor made a good point several months ago when I wastrying to process some of this, that at least when my parents kicked me out of home at 17 I had a significant amount of time outside of the family unit, and so when they did eventually manage to draw me back in, it never quite felt right.

I've declined the mediation - direct to the dispute resolution centre. Having been exposed to such small amount of her for the first time in a while, I can see very clearly why she has persisted with trying to get me into repeated verbal discussions - because there's no evidence of them - she can twist them and make of them whatever she wants. In only a couple of emails she has made multiple false claims, that I could easily refute, and provide evidence of them being utterly false, but I won't - I know there's no point, she doesn't care, and would only argue more. Exactly the same pattern as my Nex-husband and NMum - it makes me feel ill even thinking about it. Honesty was held up by my parents to be one of the most important qualities in anyone, Edad still goes on about how Nmum is such an honest person. But she won't speak to me because I stopped accepting her lies and gaslighting.
We were constantly shamed throughout childhood for anything my parents perceived as dishonesty. I still have a real complex and deep stress reaction when there is any suggestion that I am being dishonest or misrepresenting something.

My family all feel sorry for my ex too. Not for me or the kids who have put up with everything he has dished out on us for the previous 5 years. My Mum has also made it very clear that it's my fault. She actually said that I should just forgive him - like she forgave me!!!! (For a party I had when I was 17, that she then subsequently kicked me out of home for, estranged me from my sisters - told them I had left to be with my friends - they were 14 and 12) None of them have once asked if me and the kids were ok - family violence here as well.

S1's final email assault where she blasted me with about 13 questions instead of answering the one question I had asked her, she finished with saying not to contact her unless it was to treat her with respect and act like an adult and that if I contact her she will take out a restraining order. She's said this sort of thing before, then she contacts me (via text or email) again, so that she can give me another blast, and finishes it off with, and don't forget, don't contact me unless you're willing to talk in person, none of this texting stuff. It's ridiculous. I've ignored and blocked so much of it. It would almost be funny if she attempted to get a restraining order, as it's been her who has made all of the contact.

Thanks for listening and sending hugs xxx

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nanotech

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Re: BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2021, 10:24:25 AM »
Well done not going to the meditation.
 I was kicked out at 17 too, for staying out all night. I was at my friendís house,

Iíd rung and asked her. She was fine and dandy about it that night, but then by the next day when I went home sheíd decided I was lying. I got screamed at. There was some attempted violence alongside the screaming as my mum chased me from bedroom to bedroom, calling me names (slut shaming) and trying to hit me. I had to swing my bag at her to keep her off me. It was petrifying.
I was trying to leave, but she wanted to attack me. I was just getting some things to take with me.
 I ran out of the house, shaking, having no idea where I was going.
I was then later, similarly badmouthed to my younger brother and sister.
I felt like I was a bad person for a long time. I definitely got blamed for it not working out with my abuser. She had liked him, so it must be my fault.  She never called him an abuser.  She continued to feel sympathy for him for years and years. 
 Mum had the slut/ Virgin thing going on big time. Black and white thinking with no grey areas.
Yet I wasnít protected at 14, from the abuser who came into our family and charmed my mum. 

Iíve no idea why your mum would feel sorry for your ex. It seens to be quite a common pattern in PD families.
I have one theory though.  I think PDs see  their immediate family as extensions  of themselves- not really people as such. So for them,  the Ďrealí people are the others,  who we choose to marry or be with?
Their low self esteem is raised by their connection with these  Ďrealí people? So when that goes pear shaped itís all about THEIR loss, not ours?  And itís all our fault? 
 :stars:
And yes, the same experience too about honesty! My Ndad was held up as the most honest person ever! He wasnít! He still isnít honest, expecially with himself and his own behaviour and responses. Neither are my NSIs, Nbrother, and enabling sister.
Theyíre all in the fog. Honesty is actually the last thing they all are, either to themselves or to each other.

There are also a lot of family secrets- and as time goes on i can see how I was gaslighted on these, as were other extended family and friends too,  to preserve the status of the family.

I think when they pontificate about honesty, they are really talking about  LOYALTY to the  twisted family system.

 Iím sending hugs! XxxxX


« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 10:51:23 AM by nanotech »

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Honey_B

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Re: BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2021, 05:20:27 AM »
Wow, it sounds like we have the same sister  :stars:

I am so sorry for what you are going through, its feels awful to be betrayed by a sister. In my case, its was also awful to be discarded by my mother but somehow my PD sister's betrayal is worse.

My sister is much more insidious than my PD narc mother. My mother will rage and accuse, her narcissism is very obvious, but my sister is so much more understated and it was harder to figure her out. She would pretend to be "normal", stating that she wanted me and my son in her life, but then turning around behind my back and telling lies to family members about me. She pretends to be a victim of me, that I am so cruel and unfeeling towards her. In reality, I have done so much to invite her into my family, allowing her to spend time with my son, inviting her to New Years eve, to the cinema, etc. I was always paying for everything and she has happily eaten my food, taken everything I have offered but never given anything back in the form of caring or loyalty. She just sucked up everything she could get for free from me and paid me back by talking trash behind my back.

I think its wise to not go to the mediation, she will just spread more lies to paint a picture where you are the villain and she is the innocent victim.

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Sheppane

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Re: BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2021, 06:31:28 AM »
I listen to a podcast on YouTube discussing " toxic loyalty ". This is what the system demands. And if you don't give it , you're done. It will always be your fault as no one else is capable of taking responsibility. Rang true for me.

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AlisonWonder

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Re: BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2021, 09:21:59 PM »


Iíve no idea why your mum would feel sorry for your ex. It seens to be quite a common pattern in PD families.
I have one theory though.  I think PDs see  their immediate family as extensions  of themselves- not really people as such. So for them,  the Ďrealí people are the others,  who we choose to marry or be with?
Their low self esteem is raised by their connection with these  Ďrealí people? So when that goes pear shaped itís all about THEIR loss, not ours?  And itís all our fault? 

I think when they pontificate about honesty, they are really talking about  LOYALTY to the  twisted family system.
 

These two insights, wow.  I'm glad I came back, thank you nanotech.
child of the 60s, clinically disturbed mother, responsible cptsd father, much-older abusive siblings

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wesayro

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Re: BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2021, 01:38:41 PM »
Well done not going to the meditation.
 I was kicked out at 17 too, for staying out all night. I was at my friendís house,

Iíd rung and asked her. She was fine and dandy about it that night, but then by the next day when I went home sheíd decided I was lying. I got screamed at. There was some attempted violence alongside the screaming as my mum chased me from bedroom to bedroom, calling me names (slut shaming) and trying to hit me. I had to swing my bag at her to keep her off me. It was petrifying.
I was trying to leave, but she wanted to attack me. I was just getting some things to take with me.
 I ran out of the house, shaking, having no idea where I was going.
I was then later, similarly badmouthed to my younger brother and sister.
I felt like I was a bad person for a long time. I definitely got blamed for it not working out with my abuser. She had liked him, so it must be my fault.  She never called him an abuser.  She continued to feel sympathy for him for years and years. 
 Mum had the slut/ Virgin thing going on big time. Black and white thinking with no grey areas.
Yet I wasnít protected at 14, from the abuser who came into our family and charmed my mum. 

Iíve no idea why your mum would feel sorry for your ex. It seens to be quite a common pattern in PD families.
I have one theory though.  I think PDs see  their immediate family as extensions  of themselves- not really people as such. So for them,  the Ďrealí people are the others,  who we choose to marry or be with?
Their low self esteem is raised by their connection with these  Ďrealí people? So when that goes pear shaped itís all about THEIR loss, not ours?  And itís all our fault? 
 :stars:
And yes, the same experience too about honesty! My Ndad was held up as the most honest person ever! He wasnít! He still isnít honest, expecially with himself and his own behaviour and responses. Neither are my NSIs, Nbrother, and enabling sister.
Theyíre all in the fog. Honesty is actually the last thing they all are, either to themselves or to each other.

There are also a lot of family secrets- and as time goes on i can see how I was gaslighted on these, as were other extended family and friends too,  to preserve the status of the family.

I think when they pontificate about honesty, they are really talking about  LOYALTY to the  twisted family system.

 Iím sending hugs! XxxxX

Thank you Nano xx
I'm so sorry - what an awful scary thing to go through at 14 AND at  17!!! I'm so sorry you weren't protected by the people who should have been first to protect you xxx

I think you are so right with your insights about "real" and "not real" people. My nmum "adopts" extra daughters - ones who have loving mothers already of course, and so see her through that lens when she spends time with their children. They assume that she is a loving and doting grandmother - like their mother - except that she spends more time with other people's grandchildren than with her own.
In the fog indeed, as if saying words over and over makes them real.
I was very glad I didn't go through with mediation. AFter the threats of restraining order, BPDsis had my Dad call and ask if she could drop a present off for my daughter. I said she could drop it in the letterbox. He turned up at the front door with her. Not exactly the behaviour of someone who is trying to avoid contact  :blink:

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wesayro

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Re: BPD sis becoming more like NMum - is this common?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2021, 01:52:21 PM »
Wow, it sounds like we have the same sister  :stars:

I am so sorry for what you are going through, its feels awful to be betrayed by a sister. In my case, its was also awful to be discarded by my mother but somehow my PD sister's betrayal is worse.

My sister is much more insidious than my PD narc mother. My mother will rage and accuse, her narcissism is very obvious, but my sister is so much more understated and it was harder to figure her out. She would pretend to be "normal", stating that she wanted me and my son in her life, but then turning around behind my back and telling lies to family members about me. She pretends to be a victim of me, that I am so cruel and unfeeling towards her. In reality, I have done so much to invite her into my family, allowing her to spend time with my son, inviting her to New Years eve, to the cinema, etc. I was always paying for everything and she has happily eaten my food, taken everything I have offered but never given anything back in the form of caring or loyalty. She just sucked up everything she could get for free from me and paid me back by talking trash behind my back.

I think its wise to not go to the mediation, she will just spread more lies to paint a picture where you are the villain and she is the innocent victim.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you can relate, it really is awful, and such a taboo subject. It's very lonesome to feel that no one understands or has been through similar so I do really appreciate your sharing. Your sister does sound very similar to mine in a lot of ways.
I can definitely see her pattern of denial and gaslighting and that she just wants to be able to charm and manipulate in person, as the pattern in my family is for them all to lie and gaslight me and twist my words and versions of events, and leave me to attempt to 'prove' them wrong, while they continue to calmly and covertly describe why I am so ridiculous and irrational and unreasonable. No way, no point. Even with written evidence. They are never wrong.