Need help setting boundaries and navigating kid's birthday parties

[Blackbird11]

I'm still in divorce process with uPDh. For reasons I can't get into on here for sake of anonyminity, I try to at least maintain a line of communication with stbx and some members of his family.

When I have to spend time with him and my child, I gray rock like there's no tomorrow and just keep the peace.

My kid is turning 4 this month. Because I maintain some communication with his family, I said to stbx "would you like to collab on DS birthday party?" He said yes. I told him my budget. He agreed to match this very, very modest budget.

I've mentioned on here before: He doesn't pay any child support (yet); has never offered to give me money for anything in relation to our child - including work-related childcare; and I'm currently paying off the insane amount of debt that he accumulated during the marriage. This is why it's a small budget/party. I didn't say this to him because it's a fuse I don't want to light. Easier to let a judge deal with him.

Now I knew after I brought up the party that he would never bring it up again or do any work towards it. Because we were getting down to the wire, I wound up enlisting a friend to help me with planning (she's very talented in that dept!) and I created a digital invite. Sent to stbx for him to distribute to a few people he'd like to invite, as well as the details my friend and I had discussed.

Of course he wanted me to edit the digital invite to his liking; asked us to modify the theme to something he preferred better; wanted to change all of the details; and then proceeded to ask me to double the budget/invite list.

I'll spare the explanation of the week-long texting drama that ensued when I refused to increase the budget/scope of the party. I kept calmly letting him know that I don't have more money than that to contribute. Not to mention there's a pandemic which is further incentive to keep it small.

I eventually told him that he should have a separate party because it's easier - we can both do things the way we prefer. He agreed to that.

A few hours later he texted me an invite to the party he is throwing, and said I'm welcome to attend.

I haven't responded to that invite. I also haven't invited him to stop by the party that I'm hosting.

I am frozen in indecision because this feels like a trap.

Do I simply ignore the invite? What if he asks me again if I'm going? 

Do I attend his party because it's my child and I don't want them to be upset that I wasn't at the party? Because that's an easy one for stbx to use in the negative PR campaign around me.

Do I not attend and then what do I tell my kid?

Do I say he's welcome to stop by my party?

Does anyone have experience with this that they can share?

TIA 

[Poison Ivy]

My suggestion is that you not go to STBX's party for your child and that you respond a polite time before the party with "No, thank you, I won't be attending." I also suggest that you don't invite him to your party for your child.

[pushit]

I've been through this exact same thing numerous times with my exPDw.  It's been a real circus in our world.  At first we tried birthday parties together at a neutral location, that worked a few times but it was terribly uncomfortable being around her family.  Then once out of the blue my exPDw sent invites to a party to be held at her house.  She told our daughter I was invited but also sent me an email that she wasn't comfortable having me at her house.  It put me in a jam because my daughter wanted me there, but my ex was painting me as an abusive partner that she was afraid of.  I would have gone for my daughter's sake, and just stayed outside and left after a short while, but in typical fashion my ex made it an impossible situation.

Since that incident I have kept everything separate and it works much better.  I would suggest creating your own birthday traditions that are separate.  Let them pick dinner, let them pick the type of celebration they want (where to go, what activity to do).  Keep it light and fun with lots of treats and ice cream.  Just make the day about them and let them choose everything.  Don't be afraid to be honest with your kiddo about why you won't be at dad's party, but you can keep it simple and not share all the reasons why.  In my situation the kids eventually picked up on the fact that mom usually tells them something different than what she tells me, so they don't really ask questions now.  The kids know I won't be at mom's parties and we'll celebrate on our own over here.  You should also expect that it won't stop, my exPDw has since tried to invite me to parties at her house but I tell her no.  I've gotten to the point where I just don't respond and I don't care what the other parents might think.

If we open up the door to cooperation it unfortunately gives the PD an opportunity to create chaos and mess with us.  I've found it much easier to keep the door closed and not allow my exPDw to impact my life.  As long as the kids and I are doing okay it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks.

[hhaw]

I'd keep the back and forth over the shared party, print it out, put it in the file you've assigned for that type of communication then politely reply you won't be attending the STBX's party.... perhaps make up a reason that won't make it appear you're avoiding the STBX and his family. Print that.  File it.

You tried hard to promote co parenting at the highest level.  The STBX did what he does...... it's documented.  It is what it is.  No need to think about it again. You've shown this Judge you're a very stable parent, willing to support the other parent in being the best darned dad he can be....... you couldn't force him to be appropriate, though you bent over backwards... the Judge will SEE that for what it is. 

About the family...... you can always do and suggest other shared activities with them to enjoy your 4yo.  You can promote healthy happy activities and interactions.... you behave the way you want them to behave, then release expectations.

Accept their choices.

Document their choices.

Go back to offering happy family activities sharing your 4yo.... I'd make them super simple and very brief if the STBX is to be involved. Longer if he's not.

Document.
Print.
File. 

You're doing a super job, btw.

I hope you have the happiest, joy filled 4yo BD party you can possibly have while ditching all thoughts about the PD, the busted shared party and what his family think, bc all you can do at this point is be happy and share that with your child, IME.

[cgr68311]

It doesn't sound there are any real or alleged DV or abuse issues, if that was the case and he was fine about doing his own thing, then I wouldn't sweat it too much. I think he's being cordial by sending an invite, probably hasn't given it too much thought into it but you have which I'd understandable.

I'm no expert but when we are dealing with PD coparents, our sensitivity, expectations, reasoning  and tactfulness is seldom reciprocated and then we get trapped and crushed. It's happened to me so many times the last couple years that now if I receive an invite from PDx I don't even acknowledge it anymore, because in the old past even when still together, I would get excited get S3 excited and then she would just forget or do other me stuff and blamed it on me as usual

[Associate of Daniel]

In my experience there's no such thing as co parenting with a pd.  Parallell parenting works a lot better.

So, 2 seperate birthday parties for ds (now 14).  One by his uNPD father (read:  uNPD smother) and one by me.  Neither of us show up at the other's party, nor invites the other.

It took a very short time for ds to accept that was the way things were and he's been fine with it.

I'm sure deep down he'd like us to be together but he also knows it would NOT be a good idea.

Parallell parenting is much less stressful for me and therefore for ds.

AOD

[Penny Lane]

Big picture: You and he are in the very early stages still, and you're figuring out how things will look post-divorce.

As unpleasant as this is, I think this is actually a good thing. He has shown that it will not work for you two to collaborate on things like birthday parties. You tried it, it didn't work. Great, now you don't have to try to work with him. Birthday parties will be separate from now on and I think you can extrapolate that to other areas. And if he ever comes back and says "I can't work with her, look she won't even include me on birthday parties" you can (in your head, or in court if necessary) point to this event as why you do that.

Now that that has been decided you are allowed to put up more boundaries around this! I vote for, you don't go to his party and don't invite him to yours. I suspect that's where you'll end up anyway; DH's ex insisted on a clause in the order that they all celebrate birthdays together, and now she refuses to invite him to the parties she hosts. Birthday parties and the drama around them have been VERY unpleasant and the less they have to communicate on them, the better.

Negative PR campaign - don't worry about it, you can't control what he says.

What do you say to him? "Thanks for the invite but I think going forward it'll be best for our child if we do these separately so there's no confusion. Have fun!"

What do you say to your child? "Now that mommy and daddy don't live together you're going to have TWO birthday parties! How exciting! Have fun with your daddy and we'll have a great party over here too!" Your ex wants it to be a trap where either you have to go to his party or upset your kid, but your kid will absolutely take their cues from you. With an older kid you might need to say "This is one of those things that's going to look a little different going forward." But I think whatever age you would add something about how this is a GOOD thing, you get two parties, two sets of presents, etc!

I think the more you can detangle your lives and have separate events, the better. Obviously it's not an ideal coparenting situation. But you aren't going to have an ideal coparenting situation with a PD - all you can do is make the best of the situation and work with their (bad) behavior.

[Blackbird11]

Gosh thank you all so much for sending your thoughts and experiences with this! It has been so helpful!!!

So as a result of the feedback I received on here, I sent stbx a text yesterday "Hey - thanks for the invite. Unfortunately I already have plans for that day but I know DS will have a blast!"

Thought that would be the end of it.

Today is my son's actual birthday so stbx came over to say hi and bring him to school.

Stbx said to me - IN FRONT OF MY CHILD -
"so you really can't come to the party? What are you doing that day that you can't come? "

I said "I'd prefer not to discuss this right now."

I was also half asleep and kind of taken by surprise, so he asked me if I could at least drop my son off at the party because stbx has work until right before it starts. I agreed to be agreeable and keep the peace in that moment.

The party is still about a week and a half away. I would prefer NOT to drop my son off and plan on telling stbx that he will need to pick him up.

He is most definitely going to want to come to the party I am throwing and now I need to get brave and just explain to him that I don't think it's appropriate.

Once again, I don't know what to do. He is constantly pushing his way in!! 

[Poison Ivy]

My ex had a few quite memorable "saying things in front of the children" incidents. And our children are adults. It infuriated me. I waited until we were alone and then told him that it was inappropriate for him to say such things in front of our children or other people.

[Associate of Daniel]

Aarrgghh.  Maybe you'll need to ride this one out, but from next year, there'll be a party at mum's when your son is with you and another party at dad's when he's with dad.

No extra pick up/drop off necessary and no appearance at said parties by opposite parent.

Sooo much easier.

AOD

[pushit]

I still think it's salvageable to do what you want this year, you just have to put your foot down and let stbx know you feel it would be better to celebrate separately.  I think it would be fine to explain that same thing to your son, but in simple terms that don't elaborate on the game stbx is playing.  That's what I did with my kids, I just told them I think it works better to do parties separately and they were fine with that pretty quickly.  After a couple times it became our norm.  Plus, like Penny Lane said - emphasize that he now gets to have two parties, that is a huge selling point for kids.  Do what you want to do moving forward, and don't worry about the catch 22 situation they are placing you in.

He is constantly pushing his way in!! 

This right here describes my relationship with my exPDw perfectly.  In my head I equate it to a parasite constantly trying to infect the host.  Anytime I allow the door to open a little bit she abuses that, she seems to think it gives her carte blanche to do anything she wants.  For a short while this summer I allowed drop off and pick up at our houses, she started using that as an excuse to stop by and drop things off for the kids that they "forgot" at her house.  At first she asked to stop by, then she just started notifying me she was on her way.  Then those visits turned into her playing with the kids for 20-30 minutes in the front yard, and so on.  It was obvious she was trying to create a situation where she had the right to swing by whenever she wanted, so I had to close the door again and go back to public exchanges.

It was a great reminder for me that I have to keep the boundaries tight and not let my guard down no matter what promises are made.  This is what I was eluding to in my previous post when I said you should expect it to continue.  Whether it has to do with birthday parties, doctor appointments, activities, whatever, they will constantly try to weaken your boundaries.  The only solution I've come up with is to never give in to the little changes they suggest, it never serves to benefit both sides.

[notrightinthehead]

Blackbird, just a litte hint - when you said, you had other plans and that's why you could not attend - you were JADEing, (explain + justify). This opened the door for him to start arguing. If you say "I will not be attending."  no door is opened. When he tries and asks why,  you will answer, "because I will not be attending." or for variation "because I prefer it that way." Let him kick the door, you just stick to your statement. 

[Penny Lane]

Sometimes as sort of a thought exercise I like to think about the kindest (reasonable) interpretation of the PD's action and think about how I would proceed accordingly.

The kindest thing I can think of here is that you and your ex have different ideas about how birthday parties will go in the future, and he lacks the problem-solving skills to work through it in a healthy way.

So in that case the solution is to sort of force productivity as you try to work through the idea of post-divorce birthday parties.

I understand why you said you were busy rather than saying the truth, which is that you think all birthday parties should be separate. Sometimes we have to do that kind of deflection. But if you feel safe doing so, a productive and true thing to say would be that you aren't going because you envision birthday parties as a separate event, post-divorce. You think it will be best for your child if you and he make your own arrangements for birthday celebrations.

He will probably want to have a fight about it. For whatever reason he wants you to come to his party and vice versa. This is that lack of problem-solving skills. (A healthy person might say, "I think it would be good for our child if we could come together and celebrate birthdays, is there anything I can do to make that something you're willing to consider?" But of course a healthy person wouldn't have created a situation where the separate parties is so critical to begin with.) You have to do ALL the problem-solving here.

The good news is though, you don't have to engage in the fight that he wants! You did exactly right "I don't want to discuss this now." In fact you don't have to discuss it ever. You can just tell him what you're going to do, and you don't need his help to do it. The language of "I think this is best for our child because ..." is a helpful CYA thing if it comes up in court, and I think it's valuable in coparenting relationships, but as notright said you don't even have to do that. You can just say that you're not going and decline to invite him to your party.

Another thing I like to say is "I'm not able to." You don't have to say why you're not able to. You don't want to so you're not able to. You can't because you have plans to wash your hair or weed the garden or do literally anything other than the ridiculous thing he's asking. You could say to him, "I'm sorry, I realized after we spoke that I'm not able to take (child) to the birthday party. I assume I'll see you at (time) to pick him up, unless I hear otherwise." I like "I can't" because, there's no JADE and it's hard to argue with the message of "this is not possible for me." (BM certainly has tried, along the lines of your ex's "what's so important that..." DH just ignores it. He already said what he's going to say - he can't.)

Also, to build on pushit's point, the more you allow your ex to do things like come over and see your child on their birthday, the more he's going to push boundaries. I think eventually he's going to push your boundaries so hard that you're forced to shut it down. I also think you would be much, much happier if your position was ALWAYS "let's stick to the order." I know it's sad that your child might not get to see their dad in that case, however, your ex has shown you that he cannot handle the privilege of extra in-person contact with you. It might be easier to start enforcing tighter boundaries now, rather than after it becomes a crisis when the boundaries have loosened further.

For example: DH and his ex are supposed to communicate through a parenting website. BM starts emailing. DH gets a faster response from her by replying to emails, so he lets it continue. Emails turn into texts. Then she's texting him at night. The texts quickly become unproductive and rude. Then it's late night drunken phone calls. So, he started screenshotting every text, saving every voicemail, and attaching them to an Our Family Wizard message and replying there. And going forward when she tries to test the boundary of communication, he is firm - only Our Family Wizard messages.

It probably feels like you have been dealing with this forever, but you're still very early in your post-divorce life. You're both still figuring out what it's going to look like. This will all get a lot easier - at some point you will have been doing years and years of separate parties (my guess is that after a year or two, he'll stop hosting parties altogether) and you won't even have to discuss it. I promise, this all gets easier. Maybe not easy, but easier.

[Blackbird11]

Thank you all again for taking the time to offer advice and share your experiences! This has been so helpful.

An update: Tonight is the party. In a discussion earlier this week I mentioned to stbx that it's not looking like I can drop my son off there because I have to work. He seemed ok with this - and it is actually true!

When he previously put me on the spot and asked me to drop him off at the party (because he scheduled the party at a time he wasn't able to make on time due to a work commitment  ) I didn't even take a moment to think about if this would affect my job. Obviously neither did he! He just assumed I would do it (such confidence!).

My schedule is all over the place because I constantly work/live around stbx's erratic work schedule. My boss almost put me on part time hours because of me having to leave work in the afternoons to pick up my son @ school - which I do the majority of the time. I had to go out and get after school care for my son so I didn't lose my job/income.

So, again - this week has been me running around to pick up/drop off son and it's also a really busy work week - so I can actually use this afternoon/evening to put in more hours and get everything done since he'll be with dad.

So I just text messaged stbx to confirm when he is picking up son (who will be @ my house with babysitter downstairs as I am working).

YA'LL - this whole situation is going to result in some drama. I can see it already 

First - STBX will likely rage at me (either verbally or passive aggressively) because I'm not dropping son @ party.

Also, STBX and family (and my neighbors/kids - who are all attending, because stbx is best friends with all of them) - will think that I am the problem because I am not being a team player to keep it amicable for my child and attending the party.

My people pleasing self is freaking out!!! But I will stand my ground. I have many things I need to get done before my son comes home Sunday and I only have one free Friday and Saturday off each month due to stbx's work schedule.

Thanks for listening!

[Penny Lane]

Good job staying strong! He can be fun party dad for a day. Your son and everyone else who matters will see who's the parent that shows up consistently.

How did it go?

[Blackbird11]

Well Penny Lane, on the surface it went relatively smoothly. My after care is a babysitter in my house for my son, and stbx picked up son for the party with no issue.

I do sometimes wonder how he would behave if there wasn't a witness. That may have helped the situation. 

The issue is that in the days following the party he has already said to me - in front of my son - how he wished I could have been there - guilt trip of sorts. Again, I said "I don't want to talk about this right now."

He has no problem using this type of thing as part of his campaign to show how difficult I'm making things, but to be honest I feel like I made the right decision. Now my party for the kids is coming up this week and I just pray it goes smoothly and he doesn't invite himself over.