That escalated quickly... DH NC with his parents...

[Andeza]

So a while back I posted that we had moved out and moved pretty far away from Dh's parents, and that his M, who is likely an uPD of some flavor, was taking it very hard. Best I could figure, she had just watched her old age golden parachute plan move too far away to be a parachute, and DH had expressed to his parents that he's not running back to "take care of them" if something goes down. SIL is five minutes away and at this time at least does not work a standard job. Okay, all caught up now.

So now, much to my surprise (I'm not sure why I find it surprising, as it completely fits the character of everybody involved) DH has swiftly and efficiently cut contact with his parents. MIL has been ramping up ever since we left in a variety of ways mostly surrounding our DS. So DH implemented some sensible boundaries while gently suggesting she needed to talk to someone about her emotional upheaval. Didn't go over well, escalated from boundary statement to NC in about thirty minutes once FIL got involved. (Classic Huntsman type, regardless of MIL's particular disorder, he was pretty easy to figure out.) To FIL it is his utmost duty to protect his wife from everything. Including the truth, sadly. In the middle of this mess, it seems that MIL was about to drop a medical hoover... real or false alarm I don't know yet, although it doesn't matter ultimately when behavior is the problem.

DH, being the kind that will absolutely set the record straight no matter what happens, then reached out to a couple of his family members that he is loathe to lose contact with and stated the situation plainly and expressed a desire to maintain contact with them, but understanding if they chose not to. Both have so far expressed a desire to maintain contact and essentially stay out of the dispute. His other reason for doing this was to preempt whatever sob story MIL would no doubt concoct given time. It's the sad truth that the person who speaks first is more likely to be believed.

Sometimes... being married to a neurodivergent person can be very interesting. Well, we both are, but mine is masked better. It's a darn good thing we both are. If I wasn't, I'd probably think he was some kind of cold, heartless barbarian because he sort of sighed, shook his head a bit, and said essentially he'd expected this to happen at some point. No visible grief, no tears, no emotional upset really. I think he mostly detached long ago.

I'm in shock though. I hadn't really seen this coming the way he did, and it makes me sad that they're going to miss so much. They haven't even met the new baby yet... although admittedly they haven't seemed terribly interested in the new baby.  I suspect boys are prized over girls, which explains why DH was chosen to be the dutiful son, our DS is the GC that farts rainbows, and there's always been some oddness in their relationship with SIL that doesn't entirely make sense.

I don't even know if this is permanent... What a mess.

[Cat of the Canals]

I would check in with him now and then to see how he's feeling about it. In my experience, I can be somewhat detached and calm about it for a while, and then the emotional weight of it hits me like a ton of bricks, seemingly out of nowhere. It's not always a straight line.

In any case, I'm sorry for his loss and yours, and the grandparents your children won't have... though it's probably safe to say they were going to fall short on fulfilling those roles anyway.

[Andeza]

That's a good idea, Cat, thanks! I don't think he actually will; I think there's a good chance he's frankly grieved this loss in the past and has no processing left to do... It actually did hit me kind of hard, but my relationship with them was vastly different. MIL attempted to shove him into the dutiful son role, but they never had anything close to a good enough relationship that he could even begin to feel a sense of obligation. She was just blind to that fact and thought he would fall into the role anyway because... well, PD delusions I guess. As for me, I had been elevated to some sort of GC position very early in the relationship, which probably blinded me to the bad behavior for much longer than if I'd been a SC or mostly ignored.

We've been married almost ten years now, but sometimes he still surprises me. I thought he may fight to keep the relationship somewhat cordial for the sake of spending time with FIL, but Dh has expressed disappointment that FIL defends MIL's actions 100% of the time. No matter how ridiculous it is. And... over time she's become somewhat more obvious. I think, in some twisted version of reality, that she thought she was being healthy by expressing needs and expectations. However, her expectations are most definitely those of a disordered individual that has no idea how to make their way through life.

The grandparents my children won't have... I think that's the biggest gut punch for me here, especially since I'm already NC with my own uBPDm. But you're right of course. They were already starting to fall short on those roles, which is now obvious to me when I watch my own recovering (divorced) enDad interact with my children. He adores them, both of them, and plays with the toddler and teaches him words and doesn't get bored after five or ten minutes of interaction. And he helps me out a lot by watching the toddler here and there for a couple of minutes so I can get things done around the house, or just get dinner started. It's an entirely different dynamic.

[Andeza]

Yeah I'm gonna bump this with an update. I don't see a point to making a new thread.

Chapter 2: The Fauxpology Hoover!

uPDMIL sent a card in the mail, the sort that has a picture on one side and message on the other. I'm not being super specific even though I know the proper name for this thing so it's not searchable.

It was a fairly classic fauxpology. Sorry I made you feel this way, blah blah. No indication that the behavior was being worked on or changed, but there never is, is there? DH laughed, chucked it in the trash, and said essentially "Well that's the first time she's tried to use an apology to get what she wants." He's soooooo aware of the tricks and manipulations. And he is so very over them. He went on to say that she's never actually apologized to him for any of her behavior over the years and doesn't expect anything meaningful now.

The thing I find interesting is that this card was postmarked from another state, one which MIL has to go to each year for work purposes. This tells me that she may have done this on the downlow without letting FIL know. Since the actual NC message was sent between DH and FIL, I think that she's trying to paint the NC situation as being between them and trying to weasel her way around it. That also fits the narrative she has constructed to tell other members of the family, saying DH and his endad had a small disagreement. Minimizing the whole shebang down to a disagreement.

I wonder what will happen when we don't respond as she is probably expecting us to...

[Cat of the Canals]

Wow. A fauxpology p*stcard? What a sincere, thoughtful, and deeply personal gesture. [insert eyeroll here]

When my husband had a big blow-up with PDmil last year, her exact words were, "Well, I don't want ANYTHING from you!" Meaning she was "done." The next day she sent a brief fauxpology via text and has since that time pretended as if nothing ever happened. Their capacity for rugsweeping is something else.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Well, with that method you don't have the option of choosing not to open it. 

[Andeza]

Cat that was my reaction as well. I sat there staring at it saying "Seriously?" out loud by the road. Really heartfelt and long message there. Yup. We've got a real winner here.

CMC, yeah that also occurred to me. Which is funny because we always open stuff anyway. I think MIL has a lot of misconceptions about what NC looks like. She was NC with her own uHPDm for a number of years when DH and SIL were small, but she still gave the kids cards from the GPs and resumed contact not because the behavior changed, but because the kids were old enough not to be influenced in religious beliefs anymore. So there wasn't any recognition really of the toxic, underlying behavior, and at some point the kids were just tossed back into it to fend for themselves. Heck, they sent teen DH flying across the country on his own to visit the histrionic Gma and Gpa alone! And the clepto great-Gma that was still alive at the time. I'm still mind-boggled over that.

The scary thing is, had we stayed, we'd have been dealing with TWO aging PDs shortly. The uHPDGma and enGpa are planning to move to SIL's neighborhood. They'll all live within five miles of each other. can you say "Everybody loves Raymond?"

[Andeza]

Yeah I'll bump this. uPDMIL continued trying to reach out through various avenues. Her communications appeared to be secretive, perhaps hidden from enFIL?, but regardless of whether they were hidden or not they were definitely unwanted by DH. DH wrote an email to her summing up briefly why he was going no contact, being extremely clear, and specifically asked not to be contacted again. Within the next 24 hours we had two long sob-type messages full of flowery language and detailing, for the first time ever, the abuse that uPDMIL dealt with from her own parents. This was soooo messed up on so many levels and I'll get to that in a minute, but first, we have blocked them on all avenues and DH has paid for a C&D to be delivered to them. I didn't ask when, don't really care I suppose.

Now, to briefly break down the new info, and I do apologize for using somewhat odd phrasing at times, but... ya know... paraphrasing.

MIL made several statements regarding past abuse toward herself from her own parents. After these were related, she went on to pull out all the "we're FAaaaMMmmillLLYyy!" stops. Essentially she decided to rugsweep her own suffering because human plasma and red blood cells are thicker than H2O, and YES she used the actual phrase. I think my jaw nearly hit the tabletop. So not only did she mention horrible things that happened to her, she turned around and used it to say "See I had it worse! Now you need to forgive us the same way I forgave them!" And let the generational trauma continue for another cycle? Mmmmm... nope.

So we had one-up-manship, invalidation, etc etc for a bit there. I'm floored. I don't understand how she could not only reconcile with her parents but then go on to allow them relationships with their grandkids after that and never say a peep about any of it as so much as a warning to her own kids. And to use it as the reasoning for why DH ought to rugsweep the whole big thing and come back into the fold? Really takes the cake!

And the biggest thing she wants? The grandest, most important thing to her that she kinda demanded at first, when I guess she was assuming that DH was looking for a way back into everybody's good graces for some reason, is the most ridiculous thing and so totally narc... She wants us back on the big/group electronic communication by way of cellular phone that the extended family uses for even more perfection sharing nonsense. Aka "emoji overkill land"

Welp, it backfired on her spectacularly.

And while we've been NC for a good while now, DH has shaken off his literal abuse amnesia. His whole childhood worth of pretty much everything came back and sank that perfection story hard. We had thought the lack of recollection was due to a past injury... It was not. Hardcore gaslighting was big with MIL because of his memory issues, and she was able to get away with some of it at the time. Hindsight is quite clear now though, and it's become brutally apparent that she was grooming DH to take care of her should anything ever happen to enFIL. Words meaning exactly that, conveying exactly that expectation, were told to him from a young age.

Blegh. Just blegh. The whole mess is draining and I don't even have to really deal with it. But it's kicked my anxiety levels into overdrive. Yay. Sarcasm. I'm intensely hoping the note from official sources is the end of the situation. The perfect family never existed and needs to be let go. The old age golden parachute plan has left the building. 

[Cat of the Canals]

And the biggest thing she wants? The grandest, most important thing to her that she kinda demanded at first, when I guess she was assuming that DH was looking for a way back into everybody's good graces for some reason, is the most ridiculous thing and so totally narc... She wants us back on the big/group electronic communication by way of cellular phone that the extended family uses for even more perfection sharing nonsense. Aka "emoji overkill land"

It's kind of funny how often they inadvertently reveal how shallow they are. Of all the things you might ask for in a reconciliation, you'd think something like this would be at the very bottom. But naturally, she only cares how the relationship looks on the outside.

I'm wishing a whole boatload of NC peace to you and your H.

[moglow]

Mo's translation of that folderol: Others are asking about you and someone/MIL is trying to save face. In all likelihood they know [and possibly even applaud] his separation, and she just thinks she can somehow bypass that.

She's welcome to forgive whoever and continue on all she wants - that doesn't necessarily mean a continuation of YOUR relationship as she demands it to be. Forgiiiiiiiive me because I'm your moooooooootherrrrrrr!! That's not what forgiveness is - she's looking for conditional acceptance of her and her behavior. DH clearly asked to be left alone, unloading her steamer trunks as if "mine was so much worse!!" changes nothing. She just trampled over because that's not what she wants. And really, comparisons like that serve no one and nothing.

[Andeza]

That was my feeling, moglow. I'm betting somebody asked her something and she had no answer or had to pull something out of thin air. She'd opt for thin air, I'm pretty sure. She's quite crafty with words and twisting things. Extremely cunning and conniving. She'll worm her way out of it somehow. DH actually told them they were already forgiven. He's not into holding grudges. But as you well know, forgiven isn't what she really wants. She wants a return to her ideal, in other words complete reconciliation. There were offers of paying for fam talks with licensed people that are good at that sort of thing. (I'm being obtuse on purpose again) But given the crazy train that others have described it sounds like it would be a mess where she just worked overtime toward getting what she wants.

Cat, We will take all the peace we can get, thank you! 

[moglow]

She wants a return to her ideal, in other words complete reconciliation.

Just pointing out the contradiction here - she probably has no idea what that looks like or would mean. She wants a return to her limited *idea of reconciliation* - or absolution perhaps. To me she's just demonstrating yet again how y'all got where you are, much as I've experienced with mommie dearest. There too, complete denial of her/their part in any of it.

[Andeza]

Hmm, true. If we rolled back in time to what she thought was perfection, what she'd actually have is a deeply unhappy son that she doesn't understand. Any time he tried to speak out about the abuse, she would twist it around and make herself look right and better than him. But she doesn't understand that. Probably never will. Her loss.

Absolution? I think what she really wants is to just say whatever she has to say to get everything back how she wants and then be on good behavior for a while before fully reverting over time. Also, let's just forget the whole episode ever happened. I'm fairly certain of this because of things she has said to me. DH's sister (trying to be a flying monkey, smh) told him that a few years ago she sat down with their m and had a heart-to-heart and that their m's behavior changed after that and improved. She used this as proof that people can change and encouraged him to talk it out with their parents. .... Their m, however, had randomly told me one day that she had to be careful how she talked and what she said around her daughter (SIL) because SIL was very sensitive and couldn't handle a lot of stuff and she (MIL) had gotten in trouble. These are two wildly different accounts of the same thing. Sucks for her that my brain is a steel trap. DH's jaw nearly hit the floor with that little revelation when the two things clicked.

MIL ultimately sabotaged herself by telling me so many things over the years. I became a holder of secrets, with much family knowledge that wasn't shared with either of her children. I was treated like her BFF, not her DIL, and what she never understood is that the only person in the family that I would follow at the end of the day is my husband. And I don't keep secrets from him.

[Cat of the Canals]

DH's sister (trying to be a flying monkey, smh) told him that a few years ago she sat down with their m and had a heart-to-heart and that their m's behavior changed after that and improved. She used this as proof that people can change and encouraged him to talk it out with their parents. .... Their m, however, had randomly told me one day that she had to be careful how she talked and what she said around her daughter (SIL) because SIL was very sensitive and couldn't handle a lot of stuff and she (MIL) had gotten in trouble. These are two wildly different accounts of the same thing. Sucks for her that my brain is a steel trap. DH's jaw nearly hit the floor with that little revelation when the two things clicked.

My husband's brother had a "heart-to-heart" of sorts with PDmil a few years ago. He shared the conversation (screenshots of text messages) with H and said he thought it went well, and that she was very receptive to what he said. My husband and I were like, "Did he read the same messages we did?" They were having two parallel but separate conversations. MIL didn't respond to or acknowledge any of what he said, she just went off on her own tangents, one of which was to blame all of H and his brother's shortcomings on their dad's side of the family. But because she didn't fly into a rage, he believed it went well. The real reason she didn't rage is because he didn't actually confront her behavior directly. (And SPOILER ALERT: her behavior didn't change.)

We are so conditioned to fear their rages that if they do anything else, we say, "Well I think that went well!"

[Starboard Song]

Escalated from boundary statement to NC in about thirty minutes once FIL got involved. To FIL it is his utmost duty to protect his wife from everything. Including the truth, sadly.

I don't even know if this is permanent... What a mess.

We had a similar situation. I laid out boundaries to my FIL before we realized what we were dealing with. He said he didn't control his wife, so I told him to get her on the phone, then, and I'd tell her myself because this was important. Those boundaries applied for three months before she again flipped out on us, and we cut the mic. With exceptions for some major family events and estate issues, we've been NC for 7 years now. For us it was permanent, specifically because my FIL insulates her from the truth.

The last time we spoke, I came prepared with the fact bat. I knew every detail of what had occured, and could prove it, and didn't let nonsense go by. At last, beaten down, he admitted -- after 2 1/2 hours of debate -- that I had been right all along. He admitted to psychological diagnoses and long-term behavioral problems. He admitted that he'd managed to stay married by learning to cater to her and cajole her. His solution, then, was for us to write yet another apology-tour letter and try to win her over.

I flatly denied that request.

There is no way to know, today, whether this is permanent. You and DH have work to do.

But I write to tell you this: when our trial began my wife and I acknowledged that situations like this can damage marriages. We committed that we would NOT let that happen to us. We would proceed with open communications and mutual respect. We would NOT pretend that she was in the lead because it was her parents: in these situations it no longer matters. I did need, however, to respect her lifetime of experience with these people, compared to my 20 years. We would NOT lionize either position: I always lean towards reconciliation and VLC, she always leans towards absolutism and was more prepared for NC. Neither of those positions is inherently to be respected. We would NOT lie to the other or hide deep frustrations, but would share them.

This is the man you loved so much that you swore to die with him. And he with you. So please remember to stay ever so close to one another on this. This is the hardest stuff most of us will ever do.

Be good. Be strong.

[Andeza]

I'd be willing to say it's permanent at this point. DH has drawn his line in the sand and that's that. He's very set on permanent NC.

We, as a couple, are doing fine. We're neither exactly normal, but we're weird in the same ways. So it works. It works quite well, actually.

[feralcat]

I like that!  "We're weird, but in the same ways"   
My DH is neuro divergent, I'm .....more emotional, self analytical.
But he's also the SG and has a unPdM and enabler dad, so we do understand each other re the effects .
And we're definitely non standard ! And I like that.

[Andeza]

Just a brief note. We have heard through a family member that not all is well in PDland. They were not being a flying monkey, more expressing they get why we're not floundering in the mire anymore. Seems uPDMIL's parents did move in down the street. It's bad. HPDGma is showing signs of dementia, heavily it would seem, and has zero ability to respect boundaries of course (not that she ever did). They just show up at MIL's or SIL's house without checking or texting and expect to be let in. Or, let themselves in at MIL's house because for some reason I will never understand, she gave them a key. Brought that on herself, yup!

The result of all this is that MIL is drinking more and gaining weight. For an image obsessed individual I think this means she is deeply unhappy and depressed. But you better believe all those family photos still show the mostest perfectest picture perfect family EVAH! As this was all being relayed I looked at DH and said "Well it's a good thing we left. People that show up unannounced at my door get a talkin' to and sent away." He just laughed. He knew exactly how that would go over. Like a lead balloon! Yes, it is well and truly good that we left before the insanity could kick off, and the NC means that the disfunction is not affecting us. I just get to snort and laugh at the family pictures knowing what lies beneath the surface. I can appreciate the irony, at a distance.

3 years NC with my uBPDm, and a little over 1 year NC with the parents-in-law. It is very quiet. As the dust settles from my dad passing away, I do feel lonely. I've zero desire to bring the PDs back into my life. I am, however, adopted. I've started searching again, trying to figure out who my biological father is. Wish me luck.

[bloomie]

Andeza - This kind of confirmation that we have made the correct decision to say goodbye to the drama and trauma doesn't always happen. How good to know you are right where you need to be. Thinking of you as you begin the search for your biological father.