Paraempathy

[DetachedAndEngaged]

My father is a retired minister and a uNPD.

I had a very tumultuous and painful childhood. After graduating from college in my early 20's and becoming completely independent financially, I realized that there was something seriously wrong with him, though it would be another two decades before I came to even hear of personality disorders. After his first post-graduation visit with me, I went NC for two years because he tried to be ultra-controlling and I simply didn't stand for it.

Once I discovered what PDs were in my 40's I realized he somehow fit the Axis 2 criteria, but couldn't place him exactly. For a while I had him pegged as Passive-Aggressive PD, but the DSM changed and that disappeared. It took another 10 years and meeting my now-wife's NPD father and sister to figure out that my dad is also an NPD.

The primary reason it took me so long to put 1 + 2 together to get 3 is that, given his profession, I'd always seen him as an ultra-compassionate and caring person with everyone, except our immediate family and me in particular. I had always seen his relationship to me as exceptional and chalked it up to his seriously dysfunctional relationship with his father.

What I have come to realize is that his empathy towards others isn't really empathy, though it doesn't appear that way to many (if any) people other than my wife and myself.

One of the most common comments people make to me after meeting my father is "Wow! He is an amazing listener!"

How could a good listener be a narcissist?

What I have come to recognize is that when my father listens to people he has their full and undivided attention—he becomes the center of their world. It provides him narcissistic supply. When he responds, he always relates a story from his experience that is at least tangentially (thought frequently not exactly) connected and casts him in the role of a wise, compassionate counselor. The responses he gives draw from a narrow set of experiences; at this point, I find them very predictable. To someone who hasn't know him as long as I have, it is easy to perceive him as deeply thoughtful and empathetic. It is only within the past few years that I've come to see that what looks like compassion is really narcissism—its him talking about what a great guy he is.

My dad volunteers a ton. People say he gives so much of himself. On the one hand this is true. He's donated 50+ gallons of blood. He's worked 1000's of hours for Habitat for Humanity. He's been in leadership positions for so many non-profits I can't even count them. Most importantly, he's received tons of awards, plaques and accolades for his volunteering.

That's the give away: he never does anything unless it puts him in the spotlight. He never quietly helps someone. Anything charitable he does he announces over and over and over again. For example, every time I've talked to him in the past 4 months he's told me the story of helping his neighbor learn how to use the internet.

Everything he does that appears as empathy for others is fundamentally something else.

I finally found a way to describe it: paraempathy.

"Para" is a Greek suffix that means "around"— what he displays borders on empathy, but it isn't actually empathy. He doesn't give of himself unless he becomes the center of attention.

Has anyone else seen this in a PD? Especially a PD that has a successful career in the helping professions?

[Andeza]

I haven't seen it personally, but I know it exists. I believe that's what Matthew 7:22 is actually talking about, not to derail this thread to the spiritual discussion, just to point out that this kind of behavior around good deeds (or empathy) has existed and been recorded for thousands of years. PD behavior, it would seem, has not changed over the millennia.

[Hattie]

I have heard this referred to as Altruistic Narcissism before. It is pretty common in narc women who pride themselves in being the perfect wife/ mother etc but it is really all about their self image. My mum is a bit like that. I also had an ex like that. He used to boast about how he had "generously" given people lots of money and the like

[Boat Babe]

It's what you do (good or bad) when no-one sees you that tells your story.

[1footouttadefog]

I have known many ministers who were narcs and operated in a similar way as you have described here.

They seem to like the halo it raises over their heads and yet there is something not real about there empathy toward others. 

[Sheppane]

"He never quietly helps someone"

Thats the line that gives it away I think. Yes I am very familiar with this scenario. 
The need for the audience,  the recognition, the boosting of the low self esteem. The feeling that it is not worth doing these things for their own sake,  that the recognition of the goodness by others is the most important part. Sounds like you have a lot of awareness around this particular pattern but I can understand how it must have been hard to see it like that from what you described. It's hard when it doesn't neatly fit the box. But yes  I have seen this exact pattern too. 

[SonofThunder]

Sorry you experience this.  My uNPDf helps out others all the time by using his money, position in the community, experiences and skills with his hands in mechanics, and even talked a adult friends 20 yr old daughter into staying in my parents home so my father could counsel her in depression, since he's lived with it for so long.  *i think he's a closet-perv as well and likes to be around young ladies as it makes him feel powerful as a male. 

His 'paraempathy' as you call it, is sickening to me because everyone in relationship circles 3-5 see him as a nice, giving and helpful man.  But my mother (circle 1) and us two children (circle 2) experience him as a covert, manipulative, controlling, verbally abusive man who does everything for his own hidden trophies... ie; my term for the same kind of thing...'trophyism'. 

My sibling and I have a funny saying we share for laughs:  "at his funeral, everyone in the church will be crying at the loss and celebrating the greatness and generosity of this man, but my brother and I will be in the corner with the weird natural feeling of a biological father loss, yet celebrating together that the drama, regarding him, is finally over for us and our mother." 

I believe the keys to understanding the real motives of these types is what their (behind the scenes) reactions are when their 'paraempathetic' outpourings are not received/recognized in a manner that they believe are worthy.  The PD's i deal with, will quickly write-off people and organizations/groups if the recipients don't provide a 'trophy' of praise (or a large-enough trophy) for their perceived efforts.   That imo, is the revealing of the true motive of 'self' in these people.  Its huge pharisaic hypocrisy.   

SoT

[DetachedAndEngaged]

Sorry to take so long to respond back... been awfully busy with work.

I should have known that the board would be full of folk who sussed out this particular bit of pathology long ago.

Andeza, I can't count the number of times I've heard my dad cite Matthew 7:22 to criticize other ministers, ironically. You are right.

Hattie, "Altruistic Narcissism" is spot on! Thank you!

It's what you do (good or bad) when no-one sees you that tells your story.

I have known many ministers who were narcs and operated in a similar way as you have described here.

They seem to like the halo it raises over their heads and yet there is something not real about there empathy toward others. 

You are correct. I've been able to see that about many ministers I've know (and I've known a LOT), but it took a long time to ID it in the one I was closest too. Kinda like its hard to see our own nose hairs.

Sheppane and SoT, Yes. Yes. and Yes.

As always, this board rocks.

Thanks for your perspectives, everyone.

[Hazy111]

Detached and Engaged , sorry im late to this thread, but as others say you have a really good take on your father, the scales have fallen from your eyes. You have a good perspective on it.   I believe its far more common that people realise. My take.

Just my two penneth, I also used to believe that "good listeners"  cant be narcissistic as they are never stuck on transmit. But as you have discovered thats far from the truth. The opposite can be true. I had a n ex work colleague/friend who used to call himself a "good listener" He was very charming and polite and his raison d'etre in life seemed to be the pursuit of women and money. His form of supply.   

For the narcissist it comes down to one thing and one thing only, generating narcissistic supply and controlling that supply if possible. 

Ive met a few "good " religious narcissists. Narcissist therapists are  interesting, as they are well aware of the condition and have convinced themselves ( i assume) that they arent, as they are doing "good. " Therapy is a brilliant form of supply (they are in a powerful captive position, one to one, no interruptions) and you get paid as well! 

Once you see it , you cant unsee it. "Paraempathy" i like or faux empathy even.

[DetachedAndEngaged]

Narcissist therapists are  interesting, as they are well aware of the condition and have convinced themselves ( i assume) that they arent, as they are doing "good. " Therapy is a brilliant form of supply (they are in a powerful captive position, one to one, no interruptions) and you get paid as well! 

Once you see it , you cant unsee it. "Paraempathy" i like or faux empathy even.

Thanks for responding, Hazy111.

I agree entirely about narc therapists. My dad did a lot of pastoral counseling for a couple of decades. He used the concepts and vocabulary from that as tools for deflection and gaslighting.

I went back and forth quite a bit about how to label this sort of behavior. Narcissism is a spectrum disorder (like everything) and in my dad's case I don't think he's a 10, so "faux" doesn't fit. That's a big part of why it took me so very long to figure it out. But, yes, I think in some cases it is entirely fake. Sociopaths certainly fit that bill.

[Seven]

My mother.  To a T.  Except the minister part of course.  But she still hid behind her religion as well.  The hypocritical Catholic

"Oh, your mothers so great!"
"Oh, your mothers the best cook"

SHE.SOAKED.IT.UP.LIKE.A.SPONGE.  Couldn't get enough.

One time while I was researching empathy while trying  to "find myself" , I thought that's what she was, an empath.  I even brought it up to her.  She beamed with pride "yes, that's who I am!  I am so giving to other people!"

I didn't realize it Wasn't true empathy until finding this forum, but "empathy for a cause" is what I called it.  If she didn't get the praise she thought she deserved, then she'd talk super-horribly about that person who didn't give it to her.

[Cat of the Canals]

This sounds very similar to my mother. She's quite social and has many "friends," and she's always active in several groups on a volunteer basis. Most people who meet her think she's wonderful and kind, and I imagine many people think she's a "good listener." (My husband being one of the few exceptions. Smart man.)

Since coming Out of the FOG, though, I've noticed she befriends two types of people.
1. People she believes are somehow talented/powerful/etc.
2. People she can "take care of."

Both give her enormous supply. One of her Type 1 friends is a musician, and I hear about him just about EVERY SINGLE TIME we talk on the phone. He's not doing anything particularly interesting at this point, but she finds a way to bring him up, because being close to him makes her feel important. She will never let that go. He will - even after he's dead and gone -  be a "genius."

Similarly, one of her Type 2 friends had surgery, and my mother agreed to stay with her for the few days after. One of the things my mother kept repeating to me was, "Everyone keeps saying how generous it is that I've offered to do this, but I keep telling them it isn't a big deal." Really? Is that why I keep hearing about it? Because it's so NOT a big deal???? Then she regaled me with tons of overly personal information about the friend, such as how often she was getting up to use the commode and when they were going to take her catheter out.  Again, I think knowing these intimate details about someone makes her feel important.

And she never misses a chance to moan about all the volunteer work she does, and how no one appreciates her or helps her enough. Everything she does, she does to make herself feel important.