Invalidating literally everything I say

Hattie · October 15, 2021, 05:43:35 PM

Had a text conversation with my mum today. It basically consisted of me saying something and then my mum invalidating it, then rinse and repeat several times. So many of our conversations are like that! She quite literally invalidates Every. Single. Thing. I say...

I'm honestly not exaggerating. Literally every single thing!!

11JB68 · October 15, 2021, 06:01:08 PM

Oh Hattie, so sad and frustrating.
Do you MC or react?

Hattie · October 15, 2021, 06:22:14 PM

I'm not sure really. I do what I usually do, which is try and gently correct her, and also to laugh it off. It is pretty covert, as she uses a lot of veiled sarcasm, so it is difficult to call her out on it. I often don't quite realise what is happening until after the fact, when I'm left with a horrible aftertaste.

And yeah, it is mightily frustrating. Thanks for the reply

Hazy111 · October 16, 2021, 09:23:37 AM

I often don't quite realise what is happening until after the fact, when I'm left with a horrible aftertaste.

Millions can relate.

Thats basically the definition of an interaction with a PD person (when theyre not putting on an act). In Oliver James' seminal work "They f**K you up" he describes that after a conversation with a PD person you are often left with the impression that something is not quite right.

Simon · October 16, 2021, 11:27:54 AM

Quote from: Hazy111 on October 16, 2021, 09:23:37 AM
Millions can relate.

Yep!
I can think of a few people I know (knew) that were guilty of that, as well as my ex of course.

One odd episode that springs to mind happened a few years ago when I moved to a new area.
An elderly woman who lives a few doors down from me was walking to the bus stop, and I was on my way out somewhere, so I said hello and walked with her as far as the bus stop.

It was January, and very cold, and we commented on it, like you do (lol), and she suddenly said "Oh, I've left the heating on in the living room!".
I said something like "Ooh, that's gonna run the fuel bill up.", and her face changed and said "Well, I can afford it, and it'll keep the room warm."
So I replied "Yeah, it'll be nice and toasty when you get back in.", and her face changed again and she said "Yes, but it's going to use up a lot of electricity!".
By this point, we'd reached the bus stop, and I said bye, and she didn't look at me and just mumbled "Mmm".

As I walked away, I remember thinking "There's no agreeing with her!"

BTW, even though she's elderly, this isn't any sign of dementia.
She's always been this way, and still is to this day.
She just loves being contrary, and watching people squirm I think.

She's also been know to throw herself to the ground and tantrum if she doesn't get her own way (I haven't seen this yet).
From everything I've heard, I'd say Borderline with a large dose of Histrionic.

Is that what's happening to you Hattie?
Do you get the impression that no matter what side of the fence you settle on, she'd find reason to be on the other side?
I'd find that exhausting to put up with.

square · October 16, 2021, 12:51:01 PM

My MIL does that in both minor and major ways.

In the minor way it makes conversation go in jolts. I tend to say things that try to establish a common ground sich as agreeing with something or saying something empathetic about the emotion I assume she's having. But in tiny subtle ways those get thrown off and the conversation lurches oddly.

She also corrects in such strong ways. She has this little irritated headshake and she repeats "No. No. It didn't happen that way" like you were totally wrong when in fact you were 98% right but she disagreed on one inconsequential detail. Like if I said "is your friend Harry back in NYC yet?" she'll do the headshake and "No. No. He's from Yonkers." Whereas I would either totally ignore this detail or at most say "yeah, he's back in Yonkers." But my message would be YES. Hers is NO.

And as for the big invalidations, hoo boy.

escapingman · October 16, 2021, 01:06:22 PM

Similar experience with PDMIL.... Went to a park many years ago when the youngest were only a baby - think about 6 months. Came back to MIL and FIL and we sat in the garden and I said some baby around the same age was fed an ice cream and I thought that was too young for ice cream and I wouldn't give our children ice creams at that age. Yes you guessed it right, off she went to the freezer to collect ice creams for them. I can't remember exaclyt what happened next but she was in the bad books with me from there on.

Lauren17 · October 16, 2021, 11:54:03 PM

My mother, not a PD, gets like this sometimes too.
Here's the great thing about a text. You don't have to answer!!
I used to defend and explain and try to joke it away. Now, I just think "oh, Mom is in a mood." I tell her I have to walk the dog. And I stop answering.

Hattie · October 17, 2021, 04:58:18 PM

Thanks for all the replies, folks.

Hazy- oh, that is interesting. I have seen that book many times but never read it. Definitely relate to the feeling of something not being righ.

Simon- yes, my mum does exactly that a lot! I read a book on verbal abuse and it called that behaviour "countering". Apparently its hallmark is when the person is so busy countering you, they end up contradicting themselves

The text conversation I had with my mum on this occasion was a little different though. It was more like this(I'm paraphrasing):

Mum: what are you up to this weekend? Are you still doing that boring activity? (She means helping a friend with something. Actually, I was looking forward to it)
Me: yes. And I'm going for a drink another friend.
Mum: busy busy! (Snarky subtext as I haven't visited her in several months). Are you going to your evening class?
Me: yes, I'm there now. Here is a short video of my teacher demonstrating what we have learnt this evening.
Mum: that looks easy! (It wasn't)
Me: um, it is harder than it looks. In real life you have to do that really quickly.
Mum: what a thrill! (Snarky subtext)

It is like she is trying to suck all the energy and joy out of my life. Kind of hard to convey, as it is very subtle, but is really draining. I think she is basically envious of my friends and hobbies, and resents that I am focusing on them and not her

Square: It is interesting isn't it that these type of slightly ambiguous answers can be delivered in a way that is considerate of the other person, or makes them feel like an idiot. Big difference.

Escapingman: that sounds seriously irritating. Sometimes it is easier to see the abuse when it is perpetuated on a third party, particularly a child.

Lauren17-i agree that not answering is a good strategy. I have blocked my mum on certain channels, and muted her on others. I am LC but NC feels too much for me. The trouble is most of my conversations with my mum are like this $:-\$

Simon · October 17, 2021, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: Hattie on October 17, 2021, 04:58:18 PM
It is like she is trying to suck all the energy and joy out of my life. Kind of hard to convey, as it is very subtle, but is really draining.

Oh, I can see what you mean.
I've encountered a few people like that over the years.
Very passive-aggressive.

In fact, one of my Brothers has always been like that, but only with me, and not the other siblings.
I think you are spot on when you say it's down to jealousy.
Whenever there was reason for me to celebrate a success or an accomplishment, he would be the only one that would come out with a passive-aggressive comment, and try to minimize it.
Strange isn't it?

All you want is for them to congratulate you, like you would if it was them, but they just don't have it in them.
Wouldn't want to be them, that's for sure.

Boat Babe · October 18, 2021, 02:16:06 AM

I hear you Hattie, I hear you.

My mother is very similar. Hers is a relentless negativity that colours everything. A kneejerk "No!" to any suggestion of something pleasant or constructive. A passive aggressive dig at things I hold dear. Rinse Repeat.

Hazy111 · October 18, 2021, 08:54:58 AM

Kind of hard to convey, as it is very subtle, but is really draining

Yes , millions can relate Pt2. the classic pass/agg comment.

Over the years as ive started to come Out of the FOG and learnt about PD and pass/agg etc . Ive experienced it so many times with so many people and so called friends (when the mask has suddenly dropped) , i came to the conclusion that PD is the norm not the exception.

I just cant be bothered with either placating or ignoring it (until the next time it happens).

Ive just shifted these people out of my life where possible . As you say its just draining .

Hattie · October 19, 2021, 02:53:58 PM

Thanks guys. It helps to have the behaviour labelled as passive/ aggressive. I guess that is indeed what I'm dealing with. Hard to see when you are in the thick of it.

Oh well, guess I'll just stick with my LC boundary!

Cat of the Canals · October 25, 2021, 06:43:13 PM

Quote from: square on October 16, 2021, 12:51:01 PM
My MIL does that in both minor and major ways.

In the minor way it makes conversation go in jolts. I tend to say things that try to establish a common ground sich as agreeing with something or saying something empathetic about the emotion I assume she's having. But in tiny subtle ways those get thrown off and the conversation lurches oddly.

She also corrects in such strong ways. She has this little irritated headshake and she repeats "No. No. It didn't happen that way" like you were totally wrong when in fact you were 98% right but she disagreed on one inconsequential detail. Like if I said "is your friend Harry back in NYC yet?" she'll do the headshake and "No. No. He's from Yonkers." Whereas I would either totally ignore this detail or at most say "yeah, he's back in Yonkers." But my message would be YES. Hers is NO.

And as for the big invalidations, hoo boy.

Do we have the same MIL?

Mine also acts incredibly annoyed and put upon if you ask her questions about anything she's talking about. We are trying to show interest (which is hard, believe me), but she responds as if we are rudely interrupting her monologue. Certain questions are accompanied with a melodramatic sigh and an eyeroll to make it clear that you're just a complete idiot for not knowing that her former coworker's surname is JOHNSON, not Jones!

Fortuna · November 07, 2021, 01:44:49 PM

Yeah, this is so common. Once I tried to bring up that I didn't feel like I could have an opinion. She told me my opinion was dead wrong and she always allows me to have one.

I just stared I couldn't even speak for all the irony in that statement. At one point I think I said the sky was blue and she told me it was more gray. (spolier, it wasn't), but yes every single freaking time.

j.banquo · November 11, 2021, 01:19:27 PM

Quote from: Hattie on October 15, 2021, 05:43:35 PM
Had a text conversation with my mum today. It basically consisted of me saying something and then my mum invalidating it, then rinse and repeat several times. So many of our conversations are like that! She quite literally invalidates Every. Single. Thing. I say...

I'm honestly not exaggerating. Literally every single thing!!

I'm really sorry to hear that. That's recently become one of my mother's favorite ways to interact with me. Especially in person. It's the equivalent of arguing that 2 + 2 = 4, with step-by-step proof, she agrees with the entire argument, and then completely rejects the conclusion.

One time I tried six times in a row, and at the end was laughing my head off because it was exactly like the Laurel & Hardy routine "Who's On First?" Or like in Guardians of the Galaxy, when child-Groot keeps coming back to the prison cell with things completely unlike and unrelated to what they keep asking him to get.

So I'm feeling for you right now, my heart goes out to you.