Does anyone ever wonder how on earth did I survive childhood?

[p123]

Knowing what I know now I look back and sometimes think, What the heck?

BUT when I was a kid, I can't even remember noticing. Is this normal? I was VERY VERY shy as a kid until I went away to college but, I've had a lot of problems over the years with anxiety/depression and, as I get older, I do wonder how much Dad is to blame.

As I get older, I also wonder how much of what I was told as a kid was lies....

Dad, as I've worked out (took me years) is racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, small minded. Then we have selfish, spitefull and tight fisted. How did I make it out alive?

If you're interested heres my story. My parents divorced when I was 3 (brother was 2). Lived in Canada at the time but Dad brought us back home to the UK. He brought us up alone. Never saw much of mother ever again.  Lived on a very rough council estate (social housing) and I went to a poor school.  I did well at school and went to college and "escaped". I've not got my own family, own IT business, lovely house, lovely kids etc. Complete opposite.

Some things with Dad years later don't add up.

In 1971 Dads NEVER had custody it just was not done. Knowing what I know now, Dad goes out of his way not to cause a fuss, or do anything different. I'm going to put "to be on the safe side" on his gravestone. His views on why men go to work, and women stay home to look after the kids is legendary. A few years ago my brothers partner (who he'd split with) had "problems" so social services asked him to take custody temporarily. Dad went on about how she'd have to go into a childrens home because men had to go to work and not look after  kids. First thing I thought - but what about you in 1971?

Im currently a bit short of work. Its only temporary nothing major. Dad is telling me I need to cancel all my kids activities like ballet, gymnastics etc. because "you need the money" and "they can do without it".  (Actually its not going to make a huge amount of difference). It got me to thinking - what were you like with me when I was a kid?

Worse of all - he is not interested ONE LITTLE BIT in his grandchildren. He hates kids. I know its being a narc - they just get in the way of access to me. That gets me thinking, you hate kids, what on earth happened in 1971 then?

His "official" story is that my mother asked for a divorce, he didn't want but agreed if he signed custody of kids over to him. Then she never bothered with us. I dunno knowing him now I just can't see that ever happening......

I would bet my mortgage now knowing Dads character that he would NOT step up, do something out of the ordinary and put kids first like he said he did. Its a difficult one and it always plays on my mind these days.

Maybe he was nice guy all those years ago and old age has turned him into what he is now? Who knows?

[square]

Have any memories been occuring to you?

Either scenario is possible - your father may have become far more rigid, anxious, and narcissistic over time. Or perhaps he was exactly this way the whole time. Or the third option, something in between, also possible.

He likely had the same values the whole time, but his ability to cope may have changed and hardened into what he is today.

Your father's anxiety seems to be all-encompassing, and his coping method is to ensnare others, mainly you, to look after him. My MIL and my DD are both anxious, and when they are triggered, their mental vision seems to close in to a pinpoint. They see only one solution, whichmay even be bizarre, and they cannot be coaxed to accept any solution other than the one they hold in a death grip - even if the alternative might actually be more comfortable to them. Your father reminds me of that in his panicked rigidity.

My own father was anxious all his life but it grew worse as he aged. So when I was a child, he coped okay. Perhaps it was that way for you.

It surely was unusual at the time that you were raised by a single father, especially in a divorce (as opposed to widower) situation. A man I knew was also raised by his father (in the 70s-90s). His mother, who he somewhat reconnected with later in life, was an odd and detached woman. I never met her but I think more like high functioning schizoid rather than antisocial. So his narcissistic father was actually more warm and caring of the two - but the choices were rather sparse. Do you have any sense of your mother?

[Hepatica]

Dear p123,

It is such a good question, and such a vast one. How did we survive? And next: how do we move beyond survival to thrive?

It hit me about five years ago, how little the body needs to live, when my mother fell gravely ill, was on life support twice, survived and is somehow still going. How she was hooked up to all of those machines, how sick she was before she even went in, basically skin and bone and nearing eighty years old. And there she is, still going on after that illness should have caused her death. Our bodies take very little nourishment to survive, and so as children we get enough food and water and we go on. But what happens beyond that?

My home life growing up seemed to have so little love. It was dark and full of conflict and my mother was so much like how you explain your father, with fixed views on everything, narrow views and very survival oriented. I honestly think that part comes from her growing up during WWII. She was raised on rations and born on the eve of the Nazi's dropping bombs so near to where she lived. I think with that sort of trauma, those first five years, that are so important, kept her stuck in survival mode for life. Love was like a luxury and she didn't see the need for it. Basic food and water was all a child should need. I forgive her for that, because I did not experience a World War. They say when a country experiences war, it takes generations for the children born later on to recover from the generational trauma. We so need to avoid war. 

Next question is how do we move from survival to thriving? I mean, what is the recipe for a life beyond basic subsistence, like our parents had, to one of great joy and love? It's a great spiritual and philosophical question too!

[moglow]

I've had this very discussion with one of my brothers lately - we've about decided we were raised by wolves! Your dad sounds a lot like mother, except she's also a violent person who doesn't hesitate to unleash on those she believes she can get away with. Not a fun mix.

Mother and Daddy divorced when I was around 10 and she remarried about a year later, but honestly, I/we have few memories of her other than the dramatic meltdowns and violent episodes. Daddy's career took him away for months at the time and my stepfather's required long hours, and neither of us remember them being around when mother imploded. It's like she timed it, and we've since realized she can, did and does control it depending on her audience. I don't think either Daddy or Dad realized how deep the ugliness went within her.

I once asked Daddy what happened between them, and he said he honestly didn't know. I don't think anyone in any adult relationship is blameless because Lord knows we all bring our own stuff to the table and some is easier to manage than others, but I do believe him. Some of her outbursts are so far outside the realm of normal or even reasonable, I'm sure he was blindsided by the rages over and over again. I don't know how he managed as long as he did, and hate that I absorbed so many of her messages where he was concerned. Personally I'm still hoping there's a special place in hell for people who drive deliberate wedges between loved ones.

Like Square, I think there's a broad range of possibilities with your dad and how he got where he is. Your mother may have left, may have been forced out, and there's even the possibility where he picked up and left and she had no idea where you were after that. Or any possibly mix of all the above. I think mine made is so uncomfortable if not outright painful, that Daddy took a big step back just when we needed him to step up - and parental alienation was definitely a big role in our lives.

I suspect you had people who stepped in where and as they could, as we did. Looking back, I see where I was included when it doesn't make much sense, excused in school for no apparent reason, weekends or weeks away with my grandparents [not a common occurrence with my cousins or even my brothers]. I'm working on refocusing to those blessings and that love, trying to let go of the resentments. It's not easy and won't happen overnight, but I hope you can do the same - we're all a work in progress.

[jennfr]

...
Some things with Dad years later don't add up.

In 1971 Dads NEVER had custody it just was not done...

Growing up in the 70's, our two-doors-away neighbor was a man who probably fit the description of your dad, he was twice divorced, with full custody of 3 kids from the marriages.  As I recall from the girls, he would send them to buy him cigarettes & booze in the mornings before school, quite a significant distance away.

...That gets me thinking, you hate kids, what on earth happened in 1971 then?

His "official" story is that my mother asked for a divorce, he didn't want but agreed if he signed custody of kids over to him. Then she never bothered with us. I dunno knowing him now I just can't see that ever happening......

I would bet my mortgage now knowing Dads character that he would NOT step up, do something out of the ordinary and put kids first like he said he did. Its a difficult one and it always plays on my mind these days.

Maybe he was nice guy all those years ago and old age has turned him into what he is now? Who knows?

Wouldn't that be typical narc behavior, to demand the kids in exchange ,to punish her for leaving him? 
If he can't keep her, he can at least take away what's hers?

[Leonor]

Hi p123,

Your story wrenched my heart.

I've read your posts over the years and now the relationship between you and your dad makes so much more sense to me. Not that you owe me or anyone an explanation, or that I didn't understand your pain before. But your dad is just so intense, and your struggles with him are so painful.

He's literally all you had. And he had total control over you. No wonder he's so manipulative as you move forward with your life, and no wonder it's so hard for you to draw boundaries around him.

In a healthy family, your parents provide support and encouragement;  it's like a bouncy house, where you get to try new things and fall over and bump into stuff, but you're pretty much safe until you're ready to rumble out into the world.

The loss of your mother is major. We hear a lot about daughters with "daddy issues" or sons struggling with their fathers, but everyone I know who has lost their mother, especially as a young child, is left with a searing hole in their soul.

Not all women are great moms. Plenty are really crappy moms. And many dads are wonderful, warm human beings. But even a halfway decent single dad would raise his children with extra compassion and bring kind, dependable women into his children's lives, whether a teacher or neighbor or aunt, the same way single moms are encouraged to bring safe, good male role models into the lives of their children.

And even if a relationship with your mother was not possible, or if her presence in you and your brother's lives would have caused greater damage, then the least your dad can do is tell you the truth, in age appropriate ways, so that you're not left wondering as a little boy what happened to mommy. Even today I get random texts from my teenage boys: "where u at." They're out doing their dude thing, and the last thing they would want for me to do is actually show up and reveal to their cool dude friends that they in fact do have parents, but they just want to make sure I'm out there, somewhere.

You've heard the phrase, "it takes a village to raise a child?" Because villages are good for children! We parents are not our child's world. We're here to make them feel safe and independent as they move out into their world, not shuffle us away into some dark, small place where they can keep us all to themselves.

No, I don't know how you survived living with the emotional black hole that is your father. I really don't. I also think it's telling that you don't remember much about life with him, or how he was when you were little. I think it's telling that you mention off the cuff after so many years here that you know next to nothing about your mom (I had actually assumed your dad was a recent - but dysfunctional - widower, from his neediness.) Or that he moved you and your brother to an entirety different country.

And if you're wondering how you survived, that tells me there was something major that you had to survive. Is it possible that your focus on your dad being a whiny pain today is a way to kind of not think about the pain he inflicted on you and your brother growing up? Is it so hard for you to say no to him because of what saying no meant for you as a young boy?

You are a great dad, and you deserve all the live and stability in your life today. Your father, not so much.

[Hazy111]

P123,,,  when i went therapy i  just had massive chunks of my childhood that i never remembered. I dont remember bad ones, just terrible nightmares,, waking up petrified etc.. migraines ... but nothing really bad  and the key one  is .,,, do you remember many happy moments with your parents ..... my mother...zero... father very very fleeting........ positive moments??? ....  Err no ....  Ahh... the blanks are disassociation....Too painful at the time and wiped from the conscious  memory..... but the body still feels the emotions,, anxiety /depression etc  "The body keeps the score"   ....  Remember this is about you ....not your father.... your needs....so leave the guilt.  You may even develop some empathy for your brother and the pain you both suffered,,,,, but thats way way down the track

Your father did the best he could.... but he wasnt very good at it ... his needs came before yours.....I think you would really benefit from long term therapy if you could afford it... it may well be very painful as you start to remember that poor little frightened boy still inside you....   Good luck

Ohh just a quick one... my uncle won custody for his two children (2 and 6)  in about 1971  in UK  . But that was because his sister agreed to move in.... none of this turned out very well for any of the parties concerned .... but thats a massive story. Everybody could have benefitted from therapy of some sort,,, but UK 70/80/90/2000s whats the chances?? ...its weak isnt it?? Lets not go there...

[p123]

Have any memories been occuring to you?

Either scenario is possible - your father may have become far more rigid, anxious, and narcissistic over time. Or perhaps he was exactly this way the whole time. Or the third option, something in between, also possible.

He likely had the same values the whole time, but his ability to cope may have changed and hardened into what he is today.

Your father's anxiety seems to be all-encompassing, and his coping method is to ensnare others, mainly you, to look after him. My MIL and my DD are both anxious, and when they are triggered, their mental vision seems to close in to a pinpoint. They see only one solution, whichmay even be bizarre, and they cannot be coaxed to accept any solution other than the one they hold in a death grip - even if the alternative might actually be more comfortable to them. Your father reminds me of that in his panicked rigidity.

My own father was anxious all his life but it grew worse as he aged. So when I was a child, he coped okay. Perhaps it was that way for you.

It surely was unusual at the time that you were raised by a single father, especially in a divorce (as opposed to widower) situation. A man I knew was also raised by his father (in the 70s-90s). His mother, who he somewhat reconnected with later in life, was an odd and detached woman. I never met her but I think more like high functioning schizoid rather than antisocial. So his narcissistic father was actually more warm and caring of the two - but the choices were rather sparse. Do you have any sense of your mother?

I cant ever remember being sad when I was a kid......
BUT looking back I can see maybe I did have problems that followed me into adult life. It got me wondering if it all affected me.

I think looking back now I can see some of the decisions he made and I can think "are you crazy?". Some of the stuff is just so narrow minded, small minded etc and shows a massive tendency to let others do things for him.

For instance, he decided he "didnt want to get into debt" with a morgage. Weird yeh? So he "knew someone" who could get a council house for us (social housing). Job done for Dad, someone else is sorting it for him.... Trouble is the house was in the middle of a housing estate which is listed as one of the top 10 most deprived, crime ridden in the country.....
Why on earth would you move you're 2 young sons there? Just to "not have a mortgage to pay"?

I guess I'm lucky my career choice wasnt drug dealer!

[p123]

...
Some things with Dad years later don't add up.

In 1971 Dads NEVER had custody it just was not done...

Growing up in the 70's, our two-doors-away neighbor was a man who probably fit the description of your dad, he was twice divorced, with full custody of 3 kids from the marriages.  As I recall from the girls, he would send them to buy him cigarettes & booze in the mornings before school, quite a significant distance away.

...That gets me thinking, you hate kids, what on earth happened in 1971 then?

His "official" story is that my mother asked for a divorce, he didn't want but agreed if he signed custody of kids over to him. Then she never bothered with us. I dunno knowing him now I just can't see that ever happening......

I would bet my mortgage now knowing Dads character that he would NOT step up, do something out of the ordinary and put kids first like he said he did. Its a difficult one and it always plays on my mind these days.

Maybe he was nice guy all those years ago and old age has turned him into what he is now? Who knows?

Wouldn't that be typical narc behavior, to demand the kids in exchange ,to punish her for leaving him? 
If he can't keep her, he can at least take away what's hers?

Do you know what? I thought of that......

Im pretty sure my mother made some really stupid decisions too. After all what mother willingly gives up their kids?
Not sure but I guess even now the odds are stacked massively in favour of the mother for custody if she chooses to fight it.

I've heard there was possibly someone else involved. So yes I can see Dad doing that to get back at her.

[p123]

Hi p123,

Your story wrenched my heart.

I've read your posts over the years and now the relationship between you and your dad makes so much more sense to me. Not that you owe me or anyone an explanation, or that I didn't understand your pain before. But your dad is just so intense, and your struggles with him are so painful.

He's literally all you had. And he had total control over you. No wonder he's so manipulative as you move forward with your life, and no wonder it's so hard for you to draw boundaries around him.

In a healthy family, your parents provide support and encouragement;  it's like a bouncy house, where you get to try new things and fall over and bump into stuff, but you're pretty much safe until you're ready to rumble out into the world.

The loss of your mother is major. We hear a lot about daughters with "daddy issues" or sons struggling with their fathers, but everyone I know who has lost their mother, especially as a young child, is left with a searing hole in their soul.

Not all women are great moms. Plenty are really crappy moms. And many dads are wonderful, warm human beings. But even a halfway decent single dad would raise his children with extra compassion and bring kind, dependable women into his children's lives, whether a teacher or neighbor or aunt, the same way single moms are encouraged to bring safe, good male role models into the lives of their children.

And even if a relationship with your mother was not possible, or if her presence in you and your brother's lives would have caused greater damage, then the least your dad can do is tell you the truth, in age appropriate ways, so that you're not left wondering as a little boy what happened to mommy. Even today I get random texts from my teenage boys: "where u at." They're out doing their dude thing, and the last thing they would want for me to do is actually show up and reveal to their cool dude friends that they in fact do have parents, but they just want to make sure I'm out there, somewhere.

You've heard the phrase, "it takes a village to raise a child?" Because villages are good for children! We parents are not our child's world. We're here to make them feel safe and independent as they move out into their world, not shuffle us away into some dark, small place where they can keep us all to themselves.

No, I don't know how you survived living with the emotional black hole that is your father. I really don't. I also think it's telling that you don't remember much about life with him, or how he was when you were little. I think it's telling that you mention off the cuff after so many years here that you know next to nothing about your mom (I had actually assumed your dad was a recent - but dysfunctional - widower, from his neediness.) Or that he moved you and your brother to an entirety different country.

And if you're wondering how you survived, that tells me there was something major that you had to survive. Is it possible that your focus on your dad being a whiny pain today is a way to kind of not think about the pain he inflicted on you and your brother growing up? Is it so hard for you to say no to him because of what saying no meant for you as a young boy?

You are a great dad, and you deserve all the live and stability in your life today. Your father, not so much.

Thanks Leonor,....

Yes I've had a strange life to be sure..... Like I said, Im from the UK, parent emigrated to Canada. Lived there 2 years then got divorced. Dad came home with us.
I do remember getting presents from mother for a few years then it stopped. Dad told me years later she wasnt reliable so he told her to stop.

As I grew up I guess I got on ok without a mother. Didnt bother me. I didnt have any ill will I just didnt know her. I have met her a few times since but not many (she still lives in canada) shes like a distant aunt I guess.

Dad remarried when I was 10. Hated my step mother. She was a truly evil person. Dad divorced again when I was 21 (Away in college).

Not seen or spoken to my mother for years now. I get the odd email but I'm not sure I really want to bother. She seems to go through phases, I get birthday cards for a few years then nothing. One year she mixed up my wife and my birthdays. Like Wow....

Its been tough for me. Yeh I went away to college, got married. Been married 25 years now, two lovely kids.

I've had massive problems over the years. Im ok now. Like I said I was very shy - going to college was good for me. BUT, I've had depression/anxiety and I never feel completely "right".
Im sure my childhood has caused all this if I'm honest.

Going forward, yeh a few years ago I began to see Dad for what he was. He caused a lot of trouble and I did realise it had to change or I'd be divorced too. He wasn;t happy and hes still not.

Hes 87 now..... I seem to have dragged myself out of it all and made a life for myself. Hes still hanging in there trying to drag me back down. Im not afraid to say, will I be sad when he goes? Probably not to be honest. I've seen through him and can see how selfish he is....... In a way it'll be like the last bit of my crappy early life finally letting me go.

[daughter]

I really do wonder how I survived my childhood reasonably intact, without major self-destructive habits, but I've medical problems related to childhood neglect and social skill insecurities from neither parent adequately nurturing my self-worth or expressing genuine affection towards me. I think I'm a stoic person, often disappointed in other people, and remaining too loyal to folks who aren't kind enough to me.

[Andeza]

I survived... With depression, anxiety, PTSD from a single event, likely C-PTSD from the whole 20 year mess, and now I'm trying to find my way as a mother to two children who only grew up with an example of how NOT to do it. We are battered and scarred, whether it's physical or psychological.

I asked my husband this same question a couple of weeks ago. How did we survive? His conclusion was that we didn't need our parent's emotional nurturing. I'm not in agreement, but he is wired differently than I am so it may very well be true for him. I'm at a stage in my life now, having just had a second child a few months ago, that I do wish I had a mature female in my life (a mother figure) that could be trusted to give good advice and sound wisdom. But I don't.

[Boat Babe]

I survived... With depression, anxiety, PTSD from a single event, likely C-PTSD from the whole 20 year mess, and now I'm trying to find my way as a mother to two children who only grew up with an example of how NOT to do it. We are battered and scarred, whether it's physical or psychological.

I asked my husband this same question a couple of weeks ago. How did we survive? His conclusion was that we didn't need our parent's emotional nurturing. I'm not in agreement, but he is wired differently than I am so it may very well be true for him. I'm at a stage in my life now, having just had a second child a few months ago, that I do wish I had a mature female in my life (a mother figure) that could be trusted to give good advice and sound wisdom. But I don't.

Hey Andeza, I'll tell you something surprising. By some strange alchemy of the soul we develop into the mothers we wish we'd had. By that I mean that I really needed a person like me around when I was little. I am pretty much the polar opposite of my uPDMum, in part by temperament and in part by sheer bloody mindedness that I wouldn't be anything like her. (Of course with age comes the realization that we do have some things in common, how could we not) The person I have become is the mother I never fully had. Hope that makes sense.

[Andeza]

Totally makes sense, Boat Babe.  Thanks!

[p123]

Jeez I wonder sometimes how I ever escaped my hometown and didnt end up stuck in a factory job like Dad. His attitude and small mindedness is unbelievable......

Those who don't remember, I've done ok, gone to college, run my own IT consultancy company. I never forget my roots but hey, its a big wide world out there. Dad however just does not get this and won't let it go.

Things are quiet contract wise at the moment. It happens - part of the game. You've got to deal with. You take the rough (i.e. zero income) with the smooth (5x income). Its not for everyone in IT - some people prefer the constant definite (but low) salary. Not for me....

Dad of course, is one of those. His favourite term is "a jobs a job".  Umm no. Hes been badgering me for WEEKS that I should take a job working in a supermarket or something (because a "a jobs a job")... Jeez seriously Dad think about it - if I take a job then I'm not available contract work. Its going to mean I'm stuck with it - not what I want to do.
It annoys me a lot that he thinks so little of what I do. I said to him "So if I was a surgeon or something would you suggest I do the same or wait for a decent surgeons job to come along?" "Oh thats different - but you're not a surgeon".

Thanks for the vote of confidence in my career choice Dad!
I honestly have never ever met anyone as small-minded as Dad - then again a few years ago he did he'd NEVER get a taxi/cab and I shouldn't either because "they're not meant for people like us". Eh? Us? Sometimes I think Dad really means I should remember I come from a rural, deprived area and a poor family and not get any ideas above my station.... It annoys me so much,.

[Liketheducks]

Do I ever wonder how on earth I survived childhood?  Yep, daily.    I survived, like many of us, by becoming the over functioning adult in the room as a kid.   I've read your story.   If you don't hear it from anyone else, I'm proud of you.   You've thrived.   You've created a great family, career, and life.   I'm struck by the nanosecond it takes me to go from....I'm ok.....to I'm not worth it....when the inevitable slings and arrows of life happen.    If nothing else, we all have extra super human resilience.   Hang in there.   You're doing it right.

[Beowolf]

I often wonder how my life would be different if I had had a father without mental health issues. In fact, I actively strive to become the imagined, optimal version of myself that was not impacted by a BPDf. However, I am also aware of the qualities and insight I have been able to cultivate as a result of my experiences with a BPDf.

[Hilltop]

I think it's amazing that you have overcome such a hard younger life and have achieved so much.  You have done more than survive, you are certainly thriving.

I grew up with parents that were emotionally neglectful.  My father was overt in letting me know I irritated him, constant silent treatments followed by rages and I grew up with them constantly telling me that I was difficult.  In my early adult years I feel I did better than what I am doing now.  I seem to have hit a wall and depression/anxiety has become a feature of my life.  Yeah I survived but I don't feel like I am thriving.  In fact those early messages we receive from our parents can really do a number on our self worth throughout our life. I don't think it helped that I stayed in contact with my parents and even in adulthood they have continued giving the message that they find me difficult and don't enjoy my company. 

I think emotionally it is really hard for people to overcome the hurt that is done in these early years.  I have been able to understand what my parents have done, understand it is damaging and hurtful but really that hasn't helped me heal.  So did I survive childhood, yeah but wow, my parents really gave me some stuff to work through and it isn't easy.  I mean we were just kids, I didn't even understand what was going on half the time, I was just told it was me, I was to blame, I was wrong, I was difficult and I really didn't understand what was happening, so that was internalised to something is wrong with me.  I still have this belief today, that is how ingrained it is.

I don't see this as the end though, I am breaking away from them and their hurtful behaviour and now working on myself rather than trying to understand them.  I am hoping in time my negativity will fade and I'll accept how things are.

[p123]

Do I ever wonder how on earth I survived childhood?  Yep, daily.    I survived, like many of us, by becoming the over functioning adult in the room as a kid.   I've read your story.   If you don't hear it from anyone else, I'm proud of you.   You've thrived.   You've created a great family, career, and life.   I'm struck by the nanosecond it takes me to go from....I'm ok.....to I'm not worth it....when the inevitable slings and arrows of life happen.    If nothing else, we all have extra super human resilience.   Hang in there.   You're doing it right.

Thanks 'ducks.

I'm proud of where I'm from, proud of my heritage etc. but I don't want to be like 90% of the people born there. I'm nothing special - my school was poor, I suppose I'm lucky to have the ability to get on with things. I always say to those who moan, you could have done the same as me.

I just don;t get Dad - Im sure something he begrudges I've done well... Hey ho.

Will mean nothing to USA based members but my hometown is the South Wales Valleys. Very industrial traditionally coal mining (not any more) area. Bit deprived. Saying that its 15 miles from the capital city of Cardiff but people won't travel for work!

[Boat Babe]

Valley boy !