Its almost like a mental illness with Dad now - hes pushing people away

[p123]

Dads just getting worse and worse. Hes now pushing people away with his extreme behaviour.
Some of the stuff he comes up makes no senses at all - I worry that hes well down the path of it being a mental illness with him.

His latest is he OBSESSED that hes not ahd the 3rd booster covid jab yet. Its seems to be a bit random here in the  UK  and people seem to get letters at random. Its got to be 6 months after the 2nd but of course, Dad wants his at 6 months and 1 day (which was 2 weeks ago).

The GP doesnt deal with it, the nurse who comes to the house doesnt. I've told him this literally 20 times, hes phoned the GP about 20 times and they've told him. Hes asked the District nurse and they've told him. Hes asked me to call the helpline, theres a message DO NOT CALL TO ASK ABOUT THE BOOSTER, WAIT FORA LETTER. But hes got his cousimn to phone 3-4 times now. Everyone appears to be getting sick of him now. Everyone from health professionals, family, ex-friends do all they can to avoid him now - and who can blame them to be honest....

He told me today the Nurse raised her voice with him. Can't blame her- apparently he told her he wanted it sorted and she had to sort it TODAY. I can imagine.....

He's now pulling the "I can't sleep because I'm worried I've not had the booster", then "I'm not eating because I'm so worried", "Its making me ill".
He has a BIG problem with anxiety and, with how he is, he wants something done NOW and someone had better to do it. Waiting is not for him.

In the past, I've tried to get him to talk to his GP about his general anxiety. Nope. Doesn't believe such a thing exists - you're either "mental" as he calls it and locked in a padded cell or you have to just pull your socks up and get on with it. Great eh? (Personal experience of anxiety/depression so lets just say we dont have conversations about it).

So I've had enough, told him today, I can't do anything, its out of my control, I'm not discussing it again........ That'll last 2-3 days.

Honestly, anyone else had this? He just seems to be sliding down a slippery slope of being more and more unhappy as he gets older and no-one can help him. If it doesnt go his way this is how he gets.

I'll help if I can but, part of me thinks what can I do? and wash my hands of it all...

[Boat Babe]

You didn't cause this.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.

I think you may gain some peace and be less emotionally yanked around by your father if you take the three C's on board. I think that, and having a clear set of boundaries in your mind, that you implement, will go a long way to giving you some much needed internal peace.

If, as you say, his mental health be is deteriorating, you will need to be a a good place yourself in order to deal with that challenge. Put your oxygen mask on first.

[Hazy111]

p123 personality disorder is a mental illness. Its Cluster B on the DSM. Youre visiting a site dealing with people with PD mental illness. You know this right?

He sounds like hes seriously running out of supply and control that served him all his life. He may well be having a "breakdown" "narcissistic raging" at the dying of the sun (him) and all his power.  Have you been threatened with the police yet btw? Or he could be faking it, hes still in good physical health?

I like to see it as the the death of a star analogy. The planets that loyally circled him are now breaking free. Losing his influence , one last hurrah at trying to re establish his position at the centre of his Universe before he blows up and shrinks into a husk.

My father went through it and is now in a nursing home where nobody visits and he cant understand why? A King without a Country.

[Sneezy]

p123 - You are dealing with mix of PD, mental illness, depression, anxiety, aging, and possibly memory issues, Alzheimer's, and dementia down the road.  Oh, and don't forget to add a worldwide pandemic into the mix!  Your dad isn't going to get better, and it's likely he will get worse.  That is the true and deep sadness of this intersection between personality disorders and aging.

So what do you do?  You set firm boundaries and you don't take any of his moods personally.  See how easy that is 

Actually, it is really hard to do.  But first, take care of yourself.  And then next, decide where your boundaries are.  How often are you willing to talk to your dad and/or visit?  What will you do for him and what won't you do?  It will be difficult, because your dad is used to people catering to him.  But for your own sake (and your family's), keep those boundaries up and keep working on them.  You can do it!

[nanotech]

PDs are very black/ white in their thinking.
He's feeling panicky, as if he's now simply not immunised.
All the scientists have told us that the waning is pretty gradual, and as long as we go for booster when called, we will be fine in terms of our protection.   It isn't like suddenly falling off a cliff.

Unfortunately I think this is the way your dad feels. It's a PD thing. I've seen it with my own UNPDdad. They feel either completely safe, or totally unsafe.

One thing you could do, is ring 119. I've rung them a couple of times just to see how the land lay re getting a family member booked in. I got information and I found them supportive.
You can ring on behalf of someone else, and you don't have to tell your dad at all.
I rang them on behalf of my  grown up son, who has asthma. They can tell you if a letter has been sent, or if not, when it's likely due.
I was also going to ring for UNPDdad, but then the next day he received a letter.

This time around he rang himself, and was booked in over the phone. I KNOW it might seem like you are 'fixing', and that will give your dad narcissistic supply, but as long as you don't tell him, that won't happen.
I'm not an expert at all and I can't guarantee you'll have the same experience as me.  I just found that this helped my situation a couple of times.
At the moment he's doing a good job of passing on his anxiety to you.
This is a suggestion that could help him, but I'm thinking primarily of you.

[p123]

You didn't cause this.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.

I think you may gain some peace and be less emotionally yanked around by your father if you take the three C's on board. I think that, and having a clear set of boundaries in your mind, that you implement, will go a long way to giving you some much needed internal peace.

If, as you say, his mental health be is deteriorating, you will need to be a a good place yourself in order to deal with that challenge. Put your oxygen mask on first.

Brilliant way to look at it - Wow tjats made things a lot clearer....

[p123]

p123 personality disorder is a mental illness. Its Cluster B on the DSM. Youre visiting a site dealing with people with PD mental illness. You know this right?

He sounds like hes seriously running out of supply and control that served him all his life. He may well be having a "breakdown" "narcissistic raging" at the dying of the sun (him) and all his power.  Have you been threatened with the police yet btw? Or he could be faking it, hes still in good physical health?

I like to see it as the the death of a star analogy. The planets that loyally circled him are now breaking free. Losing his influence , one last hurrah at trying to re establish his position at the centre of his Universe before he blows up and shrinks into a husk.

My father went through it and is now in a nursing home where nobody visits and he cant understand why? A King without a Country.

Yes of course.... But  probably so far its not really manifest itself other than his behaviour towards me. I was just thinking of depression/anxiety affecting him...
At the moment, as far as hes concerned theres nothing wrong with him.

I like the death star thing. Its spot on. I can just see him reaching out trying to control but fading away into nothing.

[p123]

p123 - You are dealing with mix of PD, mental illness, depression, anxiety, aging, and possibly memory issues, Alzheimer's, and dementia down the road.  Oh, and don't forget to add a worldwide pandemic into the mix!  Your dad isn't going to get better, and it's likely he will get worse.  That is the true and deep sadness of this intersection between personality disorders and aging.

So what do you do?  You set firm boundaries and you don't take any of his moods personally.  See how easy that is 

Actually, it is really hard to do.  But first, take care of yourself.  And then next, decide where your boundaries are.  How often are you willing to talk to your dad and/or visit?  What will you do for him and what won't you do?  It will be difficult, because your dad is used to people catering to him.  But for your own sake (and your family's), keep those boundaries up and keep working on them.  You can do it!

I try but I'm awful at it......

I think its human nature to want to help but its so difficult. I've pretty much got to talk to him but its just no fun at all when hes like this.

[p123]

PDs are very black/ white in their thinking.
He's feeling panicky, as if he's now simply not immunised.
All the scientists have told us that the waning is pretty gradual, and as long as we go for booster when called, we will be fine in terms of our protection.   It isn't like suddenly falling off a cliff.

Unfortunately I think this is the way your dad feels. It's a PD thing. I've seen it with my own UNPDdad. They feel either completely safe, or totally unsafe.

One thing you could do, is ring 119. I've rung them a couple of times just to see how the land lay re getting a family member booked in. I got information and I found them supportive.
You can ring on behalf of someone else, and you don't have to tell your dad at all.
I rang them on behalf of my  grown up son, who has asthma. They can tell you if a letter has been sent, or if not, when it's likely due.
I was also going to ring for UNPDdad, but then the next day he received a letter.

This time around he rang himself, and was booked in over the phone. I KNOW it might seem like you are 'fixing', and that will give your dad narcissistic supply, but as long as you don't tell him, that won't happen.
I'm not an expert at all and I can't guarantee you'll have the same experience as me.  I just found that this helped my situation a couple of times.
At the moment he's doing a good job of passing on his anxiety to you.
This is a suggestion that could help him, but I'm thinking primarily of you.

Thanks nano - sounds like him.

I'm in wales so that doesnt help because even the rules are different here. He sees something on tv saying all over 50s should have had a letter and hes off - not in wales.
You can't call the number in wales- they will refuse to speak to you. They just say wait for the letter.

Thing is with Dad - he never goes out. Hes never going to catch covid. When it was bad a year or so ago, he refused to listen to lockdown at all. If you remember, I was the worst son int he world because I refused to visit. Brother drove to him, picked him up, took him to his house etc. This was stupid and all before ANY vaccine. So its annoying that hes like this now when he was totally stupid before!

[Boat Babe]

Why are you awful at it? Very serious question.

It's a question you need to investigate, with compassion, or nothing will change. You will continue to be at his beck and call and your wife and children will suffer. So will you.

Please understand the nightmare that is trauma bonding. It keeps you in abusive relationships.

[p123]

PDs are very black/ white in their thinking.
He's feeling panicky, as if he's now simply not immunised.
All the scientists have told us that the waning is pretty gradual, and as long as we go for booster when called, we will be fine in terms of our protection.   It isn't like suddenly falling off a cliff.

Unfortunately I think this is the way your dad feels. It's a PD thing. I've seen it with my own UNPDdad. They feel either completely safe, or totally unsafe.

One thing you could do, is ring 119. I've rung them a couple of times just to see how the land lay re getting a family member booked in. I got information and I found them supportive.
You can ring on behalf of someone else, and you don't have to tell your dad at all.
I rang them on behalf of my  grown up son, who has asthma. They can tell you if a letter has been sent, or if not, when it's likely due.
I was also going to ring for UNPDdad, but then the next day he received a letter.

This time around he rang himself, and was booked in over the phone. I KNOW it might seem like you are 'fixing', and that will give your dad narcissistic supply, but as long as you don't tell him, that won't happen.
I'm not an expert at all and I can't guarantee you'll have the same experience as me.  I just found that this helped my situation a couple of times.
At the moment he's doing a good job of passing on his anxiety to you.
This is a suggestion that could help him, but I'm thinking primarily of you.

Know what you mean about ringing myself though....... It might be easier BUT one phone call that I do will mean:-
1. Deffo wont get new hearing aid
2. I will be down to do the next 1000 phone calls for whatever reason.

Its a toss up, lesser of two evils. I do try not to get involved in the medical stuff because mostly they won't speak to me because I don't have consent. This just ends up with me telling Dad this and him saying "well, you need to call them back and explain things better, because they'll have to speak to you because I can't hear on the phone".

Which is normal for Dad. Rules inc covid lockdown rules don't apply to him in his head because he has special dispensation he thinks.

[p123]

Why are you awful at it? Very serious question.

It's a question you need to investigate, with compassion, or nothing will change. You will continue to be at his beck and call and your wife and children will suffer. So will you.

Please understand the nightmare that is trauma bonding. It keeps you in abusive relationships.

I'm 90% better than I used to be. I used to be awful.....

Its the last 10% of things that he gets away with still. Im slowly eroding those away.
But well aware I do let him annoy me too much.

[Boat Babe]

I SO hear you mate.

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm 90% better than I used to be. I used to be awful.....

Its the last 10% of things that he gets away with still. Im slowly eroding those away.
But well aware I do let him annoy me too much.

I think this is how it goes, most of the time. Unless you go NC overnight, setting boundaries usually comes in steps. It'd probably be too overwhelming and exhausting to try to do it at once. 

So it's normal, but frustrating all the same. Here you've made all this progress saying no to A, B, and C. But you still find yourself saying yes to X, Y, and Z. It might even be more frustrating than being in the FOG, because back then we didn't know that "no" was even an option!

[square]

I actually see your progress reflected in your father - not that you can hope to change his behavior, but you have, slightly.

The fact that he went after his cousin shows that on some level he understands you said no. He'll not stop trying, but he stopped putting 100% of his energy into your compliance. He's spreading it around a bit.

Congrats.

[p123]

I actually see your progress reflected in your father - not that you can hope to change his behavior, but you have, slightly.

The fact that he went after his cousin shows that on some level he understands you said no. He'll not stop trying, but he stopped putting 100% of his energy into your compliance. He's spreading it around a bit.

Congrats.

Ha ha yes he does now spread it round a lot. Anyone can be his slave.....

It is quite funny because his cousin used to be a FM. He'd call me and tell me how ill Dad was and how all he wanted was for me to do a few things for him. I'd just nod and say "yes".
Now hes getting a taste of it and I can see his resolve cracking already.

[nanotech]

PDs are very black/ white in their thinking.
He's feeling panicky, as if he's now simply not immunised.
All the scientists have told us that the waning is pretty gradual, and as long as we go for booster when called, we will be fine in terms of our protection.   It isn't like suddenly falling off a cliff.

Unfortunately I think this is the way your dad feels. It's a PD thing. I've seen it with my own UNPDdad. They feel either completely safe, or totally unsafe.

One thing you could do, is ring 119. I've rung them a couple of times just to see how the land lay re getting a family member booked in. I got information and I found them supportive.
You can ring on behalf of someone else, and you don't have to tell your dad at all.
I rang them on behalf of my  grown up son, who has asthma. They can tell you if a letter has been sent, or if not, when it's likely due.
I was also going to ring for UNPDdad, but then the next day he received a letter.

This time around he rang himself, and was booked in over the phone. I KNOW it might seem like you are 'fixing', and that will give your dad narcissistic supply, but as long as you don't tell him, that won't happen.
I'm not an expert at all and I can't guarantee you'll have the same experience as me.  I just found that this helped my situation a couple of times.
At the moment he's doing a good job of passing on his anxiety to you.
This is a suggestion that could help him, but I'm thinking primarily of you.

Thanks nano - sounds like him.

I'm in wales so that doesnt help because even the rules are different here. He sees something on tv saying all over 50s should have had a letter and hes off - not in wales.
You can't call the number in wales- they will refuse to speak to you. They just say wait for the letter.

Thing is with Dad - he never goes out. Hes never going to catch covid. When it was bad a year or so ago, he refused to listen to lockdown at all. If you remember, I was the worst son int he world because I refused to visit. Brother drove to him, picked him up, took him to his house etc. This was stupid and all before ANY vaccine. So its annoying that hes like this now when he was totally stupid before!

About 119 in Wales, I didn't realise that.
I can see why he's being annoying. I remember him being against the lockdown rules last year.  So now he's just staying in! 
I guess he's doing whatever serves him in terms of gaining narcissistic supply from you, or whoever he can.  It's so difficult for you P123.

[nanotech]

PDs are very black/ white in their thinking.
He's feeling panicky, as if he's now simply not immunised.
All the scientists have told us that the waning is pretty gradual, and as long as we go for booster when called, we will be fine in terms of our protection.   It isn't like suddenly falling off a cliff.

Unfortunately I think this is the way your dad feels. It's a PD thing. I've seen it with my own UNPDdad. They feel either completely safe, or totally unsafe.

One thing you could do, is ring 119. I've rung them a couple of times just to see how the land lay re getting a family member booked in. I got information and I found them supportive.
You can ring on behalf of someone else, and you don't have to tell your dad at all.
I rang them on behalf of my  grown up son, who has asthma. They can tell you if a letter has been sent, or if not, when it's likely due.
I was also going to ring for UNPDdad, but then the next day he received a letter.

This time around he rang himself, and was booked in over the phone. I KNOW it might seem like you are 'fixing', and that will give your dad narcissistic supply, but as long as you don't tell him, that won't happen.
I'm not an expert at all and I can't guarantee you'll have the same experience as me.  I just found that this helped my situation a couple of times.
At the moment he's doing a good job of passing on his anxiety to you.
This is a suggestion that could help him, but I'm thinking primarily of you.

Know what you mean about ringing myself though....... It might be easier BUT one phone call that I do will mean:-
1. Deffo wont get new hearing aid
2. I will be down to do the next 1000 phone calls for whatever reason.

Its a toss up, lesser of two evils. I do try not to get involved in the medical stuff because mostly they won't speak to me because I don't have consent. This just ends up with me telling Dad this and him saying "well, you need to call them back and explain things better, because they'll have to speak to you because I can't hear on the phone".

Which is normal for Dad. Rules inc covid lockdown rules don't apply to him in his head because he has special dispensation he thinks.

Yes I do take your point. It can be a real slippery slope when you do things for them.

[p123]

PDs are very black/ white in their thinking.
He's feeling panicky, as if he's now simply not immunised.
All the scientists have told us that the waning is pretty gradual, and as long as we go for booster when called, we will be fine in terms of our protection.   It isn't like suddenly falling off a cliff.

Unfortunately I think this is the way your dad feels. It's a PD thing. I've seen it with my own UNPDdad. They feel either completely safe, or totally unsafe.

One thing you could do, is ring 119. I've rung them a couple of times just to see how the land lay re getting a family member booked in. I got information and I found them supportive.
You can ring on behalf of someone else, and you don't have to tell your dad at all.
I rang them on behalf of my  grown up son, who has asthma. They can tell you if a letter has been sent, or if not, when it's likely due.
I was also going to ring for UNPDdad, but then the next day he received a letter.

This time around he rang himself, and was booked in over the phone. I KNOW it might seem like you are 'fixing', and that will give your dad narcissistic supply, but as long as you don't tell him, that won't happen.
I'm not an expert at all and I can't guarantee you'll have the same experience as me.  I just found that this helped my situation a couple of times.
At the moment he's doing a good job of passing on his anxiety to you.
This is a suggestion that could help him, but I'm thinking primarily of you.

Thanks nano - sounds like him.

I'm in wales so that doesnt help because even the rules are different here. He sees something on tv saying all over 50s should have had a letter and hes off - not in wales.
You can't call the number in wales- they will refuse to speak to you. They just say wait for the letter.

Thing is with Dad - he never goes out. Hes never going to catch covid. When it was bad a year or so ago, he refused to listen to lockdown at all. If you remember, I was the worst son int he world because I refused to visit. Brother drove to him, picked him up, took him to his house etc. This was stupid and all before ANY vaccine. So its annoying that hes like this now when he was totally stupid before!

About 119 in Wales, I didn't realise that.
I can see why he's being annoying. I remember him being against the lockdown rules last year.  So now he's just staying in! 
I guess he's doing whatever serves him in terms of gaining narcissistic supply from you, or whoever he can.  It's so difficult for you P123.

Yes annoyingly a lot is different in wales. The covid pass app doesnt work in wales - we've not to go to have a pass to go to the cinema.

I got a train to london the other week with work. When the train is in the Severn tunnel (which as you prob know goes under the River Severn which is the border) "you are entering england you may remove you're mask". On the London underground "you must wear a mask". Coming home "we are now entering the Severn Tunnel please put on your mask",

Crazy or what?

[p123]

PDs are very black/ white in their thinking.
He's feeling panicky, as if he's now simply not immunised.
All the scientists have told us that the waning is pretty gradual, and as long as we go for booster when called, we will be fine in terms of our protection.   It isn't like suddenly falling off a cliff.

Unfortunately I think this is the way your dad feels. It's a PD thing. I've seen it with my own UNPDdad. They feel either completely safe, or totally unsafe.

One thing you could do, is ring 119. I've rung them a couple of times just to see how the land lay re getting a family member booked in. I got information and I found them supportive.
You can ring on behalf of someone else, and you don't have to tell your dad at all.
I rang them on behalf of my  grown up son, who has asthma. They can tell you if a letter has been sent, or if not, when it's likely due.
I was also going to ring for UNPDdad, but then the next day he received a letter.

This time around he rang himself, and was booked in over the phone. I KNOW it might seem like you are 'fixing', and that will give your dad narcissistic supply, but as long as you don't tell him, that won't happen.
I'm not an expert at all and I can't guarantee you'll have the same experience as me.  I just found that this helped my situation a couple of times.
At the moment he's doing a good job of passing on his anxiety to you.
This is a suggestion that could help him, but I'm thinking primarily of you.

Thanks nano - sounds like him.

I'm in wales so that doesnt help because even the rules are different here. He sees something on tv saying all over 50s should have had a letter and hes off - not in wales.
You can't call the number in wales- they will refuse to speak to you. They just say wait for the letter.

Thing is with Dad - he never goes out. Hes never going to catch covid. When it was bad a year or so ago, he refused to listen to lockdown at all. If you remember, I was the worst son int he world because I refused to visit. Brother drove to him, picked him up, took him to his house etc. This was stupid and all before ANY vaccine. So its annoying that hes like this now when he was totally stupid before!

About 119 in Wales, I didn't realise that.
I can see why he's being annoying. I remember him being against the lockdown rules last year.  So now he's just staying in! 
I guess he's doing whatever serves him in terms of gaining narcissistic supply from you, or whoever he can.  It's so difficult for you P123.

Yes Dad didnt agree with the lockdown rules because it affected him i.e. I couldnt visit!

Problem was brother was too stupid to understand 1) what the law was and 2) It actually made sense for Dad to isolate. Ive never been a fan of lockdown but at the beginning, the risks were there for Dad.

Of course, once brother visited that was it. I was the bad one for refusing. Not sure if it was ever the same in England but, at one time, you weren't allowed to leave you're county.
Fine for brother living a mile away. In South Wales at least, the counties are very small (e.g. newport is a county, cardiff is its own county) - so for me to travel to see Dad would have meant leaving my own county (newport), crossing two other counties (caerphilly and cardiff) before going into Dads county (rhondda cynon taff). Now I really didnt want a fine for doing that!

Of course, Dad answer (as it always is!) is that if I got pulled over by the police I should "explain to them that I need urgent care". Thats Dad for you. Always thinks hes on deaths door and its urgent I visit. Of course, not sure the police would have agreed it was so urgent when they realised my brother lived a mile away and I was driving from 30 miles away!

In the end, they kept on and kept on, I'd say to Dad no I can't visit, he'd speak to brother who'd tell him yes I can visit because hes old. I did email my local welsh assembly parliament member in the end, explained the situation and they're response was "sorry you're right, its not an emergency" Printed that out, gave Dad 2 copies. I was pretty peed off at the time that I had to do that mind!