How/why did you choose NC over LC?

[neilyneil]

TL;DR I am being encouraged to go NC with my father. I have cut down on conversations with him to 2-3 times a week versus daily. Most go okay, but then there are times where I realize the toll the relationship is taking on me.

More explanation ...

I am the only family member who is still in contact with my father (parents separated, 2 younger siblings are NC).

He has a long term girlfriend whom I have never met and have no desire to ever meet. He recently told me he would be spending the holidays with her when we usually spend them together (more specifically, I choose to spend holidays with my father over other family). He asked me to visit with him last week since he won't be around. I agreed, despite my DH and therapist advising against it. I spent the day before the trip extremely overwhelmed and a sobbing emotional wreck at the thought of canceling. Putting boundaries feels like I'm killing my dad.

I ended up going on the visit. At first, everything was fine. At the end of the first day, the girlfriend calls. I leave the room to give some space. After a while I come back in and inappropriate comments are being made. I not quite yell but very sternly say "stop!" They laugh about it and the call ends. The last day we're at the mall and he asks me to help him buy her undergarments. Which I stupidly and begrudgingly do.

90% of the visit was perfectly fine, but the other 10% leaves me feeling very weird and gross. I can't feel this disgust with myself anymore.

How did you make the decision to go NC?

[blues_cruise]

I chose no contact because the long term effects of stress were starting to have a physical impact, plus I had a lot of mental health things to work through which felt impossible to do when I was stressed and hypervigilant constantly. No contact was a way of drawing a line in the sand and simplifying things for myself. Any boundaries I had tried to introduce prior to that had just earned me 'punishment' (manipulation and scorn), so even extremely low contact just didn't work. Every visit and every phone call was a distressing, upsetting ordeal and I just couldn't cope with it anymore. I now know that I have PTSD and panic disorder, so removing the cause of this was a healing thing for me to do for myself.

If you're considering no contact my best advice is to figure out what you want to achieve from it, plus to be aware that it doesn't necessarily offer an immediate fix and that it will likely throw up other difficulties such as retaliation and social stigma. If your situation is at the point of being unbearable and you can't see any other way of improving it (scaling back contact further and introducing other boundaries, for instance) then no contact can be the healthiest option.

I can't feel this disgust with myself anymore.

That really jumps out at me. Disgust is closely linked to shame and I think it's something that a lot of people end up carrying, when really the shame should belong to their parent. I remember a lot of my father's behaviour making me feel grossed out and just...wrong. The innappropriate comments and your father expecting you to come along and help pick out undergarments for his girlfriend is extremely out of order and sounds like it could be in the realm of emotional incest. I'm really sorry he puts you in those kinds of scenarios.

[moglow]

I chose no contact when I realized just how empty our "relationship" was. One last emotionless recitation from mommie dearest of all her resentments and disappointments, and the door closed quietly for me. It wasn't easy or painless by any means but the only thing left to do. I finally understood there was nothing to do but finally take better care of myself.

I'd maintained limited and more limited contact for years, every time spending weeks in recovery after her tantrums and abuse. I thought I had to hold on "because she's my mother" even knowing she showed little interest or compassion, never mind love towards any of us. There's an emptiness in her nothing can fill, and it's driven by an anger every bit as bottomless. Worse, she seems to enjoy it, hurting others. That's the one thing I finally couldn't ignore.

I just couldn't pretend any longer, for her or anyone else. It wasn't so much a choice between limiting contact and none at all, as a choice to do better for myself. I truly am better, kinder, more peaceful without her.

[daughter]

What positive outcome do you foresee from continuing contact?  Is FOG/duty remaining reason? 

If you feel "disgust" even 10% time, then there's reason to step back and reconsider.  If therapist encourages NC, or "time-out period" of significantly reduced or even curtailed contact, then it may in fact be prudent to do so.

[JustKathy]

I never weighed LC versus NC. In both cases (NPDmother and enFather), it went straight to NC and it happened pretty spontaneously. Both of them committed acts that were so egregious I decided right then and there that it had to end.

In the case of NPDmother, I was out of work and had a great job lead that she managed to sabotage. For the first time in my life, I stood up to her. I called her and gave her a piece of my mind. She went infantile and started crying and screaming and calling to my father to come and protect her from me. I hung up the phone and that was it. The end.

I remained in contact with my father until he disinherited me to please my mother. Both my husband and I pleaded with him to reconsider but he kept saying he had to do it because I had hurt my mother so badly. After I got off the phone I started to have chest pains and went to the ER, thinking I was having a heart attack. They told me it was a severe panic attack but that "something bad" was going to happen to me if I didn't get rid of the stress. So I got rid of the stress.

[xredshoesx]

there's no middle ground with my biological mother and after i found my biological father i knew if i wanted to have any chance of a relationship with my dad, his wife, or my half sisters i had to make a choice.  i chose my dad.  we're not close but when it comes down to it, i'm closer to him and his wife than i ever was to my mother.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

What made me choose NC over LC was the way I always felt so bad about who I was as a person when being around them. I noticed it was a pattern. It was consistently small things out of nowhere that caused huge backlash against me. It was the pattern and realizing no matter how I tried to accommodate them, things never got better.       
     
I believe it is alright to do whatever you need to ensure your own wellbeing. I think there are some things you just know in your heart. Whatever you chose, I think you will get feedback based on how you begin to feel. If you are happier and calmer, then I think those are good signs. I think it is also alright to try whatever you want, then assess how you are feeling over a period of time after and adjust as needed.       

[treesgrowslowly]

I went NC after trying LC for about a year or so.

The frequency of contact when I went LC - I made a pact with myself that I would tolerate 1 visit a month. If she used it up on the 2nd of the month, she was 'done' in my mind until the next page on the calendar was turned.

I never told uNPDm this plan. I knew by then that if I told her I needed 'space' she would FREAK out. It sorta worked, I mean, some months she was too busy to notice. But eventually, she pushed back on this boundary, and honestly, she wanted control. Before I went LC, most months I did not see her more than once but it was when SHE decided. She couldn't handle being in a dynamic with someone who wanted autonomy, and the right to say no to her. She can't accept peoples boundaries - mine, or anyone's.

I don't recall exactly how long I did my LC, but eventually,I got tired of her pushing for more. I went NC, because LC didn't work for me. I was just as exhausted emotionally by her abuse, and so LC didn't work because she refused to accept the boundary.

Nowadays, I talk about her as my abuser. People are understanding if you say "I left an abusive relationship"...until you say that it was with your parent. If the parent was the abuser, then apparently, by society's standards, we are wrong to leave that abusive relationship. Hopefully in the future that will change and society will see that leaving an abuser is leaving an abuser, regardless of what DNA we share with them. I do not think I could have recovered from some of the codependency / PTSD if I had stayed in contact with my abuser. I gave her decades of 'chances' to get it right...how long would we tell a loved one to wait for an abuser to change? I am glad I went NC. It saved me from being abused into my 50s, which i know is what would be my fate if I stayed in contact with her.

Good luck to you. It is a painful road but people here really get it.

Trees

[Starboard Song]

We chose NC via a common backdoor: they announced they no longer wanted to have a relationship, and a few weeks later we were told this was permanent. That they'd crossed a point of no return and, so, would never want a relationship with us. That was sufficient for us to stop communicating, though we continued to allow them to visit with our son.

We implemented a new boundary. We said that if they ever had anything remotely negative to say about us that they had to do it speaking to us, and never in print. They'd been too abusive and undisciplined in print.

It didn't take long before something angered my MIL and she wrote truly nasty stuff, including a very formal statement that her only goal was to have us out of her life while still seeing our son.

That was it. If you cannot manage to even pretend to love us, and cannot manage to abide by even the most rudimentary conventions for kind behavior, you are out. It was about that time that we learned about PDs and found this site. I think NC is always a very last resort. It causes a great deal of trouble, so only when it evades a great deal of trouble is it worth it.

But when boundaries are not administrable, and when you are unable to thrive for those who reliably love you because of one of these people who can't, then we all must do the right thing for all those we love by excising those who do not reliably love us back.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I was already LC with my ignoring Nparents. A really egregious thing happened, I called out that ONE behavior in a lifetime of them, and called a timeout in the relationship.

...Well, that escalated quickly.

I ignored hoovering and smear campaigns for months. NC became permanent in my mind when my father deliberately tried to set me up to be charged with abusing my own children.

With my in-laws it was similar. I only saw them once or twice a year, and my FIL had already apparently given up on me. Kids and I hadn't seen him for a couple of years when it went down with MiL. I tried one time to stand up for myself in a mature way after having been belittled, undermined and raged at in my own home. It went back a forth a couple of times, only getting more and more outrageous. When I started getting back writing assignments and accusations of having cooked chicken when I knew that wasn't her favorite, I was done.

[bee well]

I also chose NC to protect my mental and physical health, after a particularly disturbing episode. I had tried to enforce boundaries, and reason about things to no avail for years. The last attempt I made at  trying to make myself understood was met with an attack to which I did not respond.

It was  very hard to accept that people who were so outwardly "good and respectable," were in reality callous and cared about little else than status and other superficial values. I also was in denial that people could be so cruel to family. I knew it on an intellectual level but it had never hit me in the gut. (That on my part went contrary to everything I had experienced in life until then, perhaps it was a survival mechanism gone haywire). As a result I had ignored the red flags and put up with the gaslighting and abuse, and  continued my "cheerleader" role until I could not take it anymore.

So I guess I could say NC was a matter of survival.  The hoovering and guilt tripping ensued after NC. Fortunately I have been strong enough not to respond. I know I did the right thing. Even though it feels horrible at times, that is diminishing, and I am so much better.  After I started educating myself the confusion lessened, and I realized it isn't "just me." I recently accepted the fact I was being scapegoated, that role taken over from another family member who had died. That role seems to be fluid in my FOO.

I went NC with FOO as a last resort. I do think LC can work, obviously it depends on the particular circumstances. I am able to navigate LC with Inlaw family, for example. Although I recognize that it is not the healthiest solution, it's the best one for me at this time.

One of the best things that came out of this is that I realized there are many options in life than I had previously thought. Some of them are always comfortable but they are choices.

We don't have to accept what is handed to us without question.

All the best to you as you make your decisions.

[Hazy111]

To understand PD and narcissism is to understand "narcissistic supply" . LC allows you to be their "fuel", their supply.

[Andeza]

I realized I was spending a huge chunk of time recovering from any and all contact with my uBPDm. The healing process having to be done over and over and over was consuming my life. I've made significantly more progress since I went NC. There was no "final straw" no final outburst from her that told me it was time. It just needed doing.

[happygoat]

I started NC with my Mom over three years ago. I was in recovery for CPTSD from corrosive invalidation. I was still drinking.  My head cleared just enough to realize that my alcohol addiction was no longer helping me. It was contributing to the confusion that I was experiencing. It made me weak and more vulnerable to the gaslighting.  Over the past few years I have gone NC with everyone in my family except my youngest daughter.  She has struggled with drug addiction and mental health issues most of her life. I feel like I am getting sucked back into the sick family system every time I speak with her but my Mom instincts will not let me give up on her yet, even though I am so afraid of her. All of these post speak to me. I think that I have made the right decision for my recovery and my life. Not that I am going to have this wonderful sweet life. I am too old and I am the scapegoat.  There is no real reconciliation or recovery for my family dysfunction.  From what I understand they just think I need to be a better person and they are trying to help me do that.  They do not see their behavior towards me as dysfunctional or cruel. I wish I could say that I am over not being good enough for them, but the truth is I never will be and I am tired of trying. All I hope for now is the lack of active abuse. I will have to go away and I am still trying to figure out how to do that.  They are very good at sabotage and well respected in the community.  They have money and connections, and they hate me. The only reason they were in a relationship with me is to keep tabs on me and hurt me for sport.  The alcohol addiction and scapegoating caused so much cognitive dissonance. Even after a year of abstinence I was so confused that I let one of my abusers read my diagnosis!  She really knew how to hurt me then.  It was like I gave her instructions. I am alone, but at least I can lock my door and things are where I left them.  I am learning that I can take my time and decide who I will trust and at what level. I don't have to say goodbye forever. I can be NC today because I really have no choice if I want to stay sane and functional.  Maybe some happiness will come later on down the line.

Wishing you well on your journey!

[salamander]

Hi there! This is a tough path to navigate, and you are doing a great job.

Ultimately, I went NC because LC wasn't working, and she UPDmom couldn't/wouldn't respect my boundaries. After a few years of what I thought was successful LC, she showed up for a 'surprise visit' along with her husband on my doorstep. My doorstep, which was roughly 2,000 miles away from their own doorstep. I had no interest in seeing or talking with either one of them. I verbalized this to her after she spent the better part of an hour pounding on the front door, yelling about how she was there, and blowing up my phone. I 'ran the gauntlet' to my car, left, and hid out for the better part of six hours. When I attempted to return to my home, her husband was parked in front of my building, blocking my ingress to my home. I had to get law enforcement involved. She has attempted, many times over the last three years, to contact me, on her terms of course. This includes things such as asking my friends and acquaintances what my address is, where I live, vehicle description and license plate number.  I broke NC in October of this year to send her an email that laid out some boundaries and asked two questions. She has yet to respond to that email - not that I'm surprised.

I wouldn't say that I live in fear. They have no power over me, no control. I don't belong to them. That being said, I am very aware of anything that is or could be a threat to the happy life I have built here, without them. I am still very careful about who all knows exactly where I live, as I have no doubt that they will return to the area in which I live in yet another unwelcome attempt to locate me.

[patricia42521]

Hi my mother has BPD with some narcissistic tendencies, not sure where she falls on the scale with regards to NPD. Anyway I have tried and tried for the past 20 yrs to hold some boundaries with her but she just will not accept them. She constantly tries to reassert her rules. We foolishly moved my mother in with us (hubby and 2 kids) after my father died, what a disaster. I was trying to hold my boundaries whilst constantly being abused she then started emotionally abusing my daughter who was 9 at the time. Mental health and I agreed that she needed to be moved out of the home into assisted living for the sake of my daughter and the rest of us who were basically living upstairs to avoid her moods/rages.
All was okayish as I was visiting her weekly. However she was ringing approximately 7 - 13 every day just spamming my phone. So I blocked her, making the decision that I would ring her once a week. Since then she has been insane, the fact that I am not available to her 24/7 sent her over the edge.   I then broke my arm and wrist and could no longer visit as I couldnt drive.  Then one week I didnt phone as I was physically exhausted with not sleeping with my arm and I just couldnt face the drama/crying and accusations, so she turned up at our house and created a big scene. I asked her to leave. She then turned up a fortnight later and started banging on the windows and shouting to be let in. My husband asked her to leave, my daughter was terrified. She then turned up yesterday again. It is this constant refusal to accept the boundaries and behave that have led me to the decision to go NC. I know it will be hard but I have been thinking about it for months now. I feel it is the right thing to do. The fact that I dreaded having to ring her lets me know how dysfunctional it all is, never mind the uninvited visits and irrational behaviour. I am not going to explain myself as I know there is no point. She will not accept blame, as she is currently blaming it all on my daughter. My 14 yr old is the golden child in her eyes. (he also wants nothing to do with her) I feel I owe it to myself and my family and I have honestly exhausted all other avenues. #

[Sidney37]

I chose NC when LC wasn't acceptable to NPDm. Her expectation from the time I left for college until I attempted LC in my mid 40s was that I call her a minimum of twice a day, every day to tell her every private detail of the lives of me, husband, kids, neighbors, in-laws, etc.  I read the book "Boundaries" and started setting very minor boundaries regarding what I told her on these calls and how often I called.  I set some basic boundaries on how to react when she verbally abused me as well.  She accepts no bounds whatsoever.  None. 

I skipped a few days of calling and she was furious.  It quickly snowballed from refusing to answer her phone on Mother's Day when I called, to thinking she could punish me by withholding information about a trip she was taking (I didn't care at all), to social media smear campaigns and suicide threats where she blamed me for enabling father's suicide threat.  This over calling every 3rd day, taking a weekend trip that didn't include her (she lives 8 hours away), posting a photo on social media of my child without telling her first (in case someone mentioned it to her, she'd look bad if she didn't know), and not telling her the details of a doctor's appointment of someone who didn't want her to know. 

I expected an apology for the suicide threat blames and the lies posted on social media about me that included pictures of my kids.  It's been years.  The only apology I got was the typical PD apology  - it's someone else's fault that she treats me the way she does (she learned it from her boss), I'm too sensitive and the things she says and does are to help me but I can't see that.

Every few months an email shows up in the box where I have their emails auto sent.  The therapist and I have decided to occasionally read and always keep them because at some point, I'll probably need legal involvement and a restraining order. 

I've been completely NC since the beginning of covid when i answered the phone without looking at the caller Id first and nearly NC for a year or so before.

[mary_poppins]

Good question. It's better to think of how would this relationship make you feel in 2, 3, 5 years from now. Would contact with your father make you feel bad about yourself? Would it interfere with your job, romantic relationships, positive thinking, physical and emotional health? is he the covert type who uses those abuse tactics that Sam Vaknin is talking about in his videos (I think covert abusers are the most dangerous because they make you feel as if you're safe with them when you're not) or is he on the less abusive side?

Everyone has this point of no return when something happens between them and the PD parent that convinces them to cut them out for good. I had this moment when my parents showed no remorse or empathy when a relative died and threw all that in my face. They milked that family death for all the supply they needed and I couldn't believe it. My own parents were mocking a dear relative of mine who died of stroke! this was traumatising to me so I had to cut them out. I later resumed contact but am preparing for NC again.

Take your time and don't rush NC. Do what you feel it's good for you atm. I think we have a pretty good intuition and we know, deep down when it's the 'time' to move on from them. And when we get that undeniable feeling, we take action too. But first you need to be ready mentally for it.

As someone here said-there's no right or wrong way to go NC and there's no specific time to do it. We've been abused our entire lives and sincerely, that's all we need to go NC. Past abuses do not vanish miraculously, they stay with us and we need to carry their load wherever we go. It's not a small thing. It's huge.