need to process a hoover

[wesorya]

I've had very limited contact with my parents for the past few years. As I started to set boundaries to limit the impact of my uPD Mum's behaviour on myself and my kids, she attempted to use enDad to regain control. I set boundaries which resulted in limited contact with him also.

He reached out to me about 12 months ago wanting to repair things to some extent, but this clearly had ramifications with uPDM, and she fairly quickly reined him back in. I try to keep in contact with him, but it is no longer a reciprocal relationship, it has very clearly returned to uPM's stock standard shame/blame/control style of relationship.

I fell for it, and despite the awful manner in which he spoke to me, the fact he did not ask me one thing about myself, complained about how long it had been since I had contacted him - and then when I pointed out that my birthday was a few weeks prior, and he hadn't even called me for my birthday - and got no response at all - I invited him to meet me for a coffee, which I realise now was my subconscious wanting to fawn and appease his unhappiness and lack of approval.
He asked if uPDM could come as well, and I of course agreed. I met with them this morning and it was like something out of the twilight zone of course. uPDM acted as if everything was completely normal and fine, even though the only contact I've had with her for almost a year has been fake smiles and nasty texts and emails.

She asked very sweetly as we were leaving at the end if she could see my kids over the holidays. There's been nothing stopping her from seeing the kids at any point other than that she has only wanted to see one of my three kids. Yet she hasn't seen any of them for nearly a year, other than dropping off birthday presents for them from other people. She cancelled easter lunch at her place because my GC sister decided not to go, and it wasn't rescheduled.

I was so glad I arranged to meet them at a coffee shop. I hadn't actually expected uPDM to show up, and hadn't prepared myself for her, especially not the extra nice best behaviour.

I guess I'm just trying to prepare myself for what is potentially coming up now, and starting to think about what I want from this, and how to best approach it. After past behaviour I certainly don't want her in my house, or to visit her house. It's been so peaceful not having her in my life.

[Cat of the Canals]

I met with them this morning and it was like something out of the twilight zone of course. uPDM acted as if everything was completely normal and fine, even though the only contact I've had with her for almost a year has been fake smiles and nasty texts and emails.

Ugh. My PDmom is a master rug-sweeper. And you're right, it does feeling exactly like being in the Twilight Zone.

Are you wanting to/willing to facilitate a relationship between your parents and your kids? Zero judgment if the answer is NO. But if you do, perhaps you only do short outings with your parents in a neutral space (restaurant, zoo, etc.). Both my PDmom and PDmil are better "not on their own turf" and in brief, limited visits.

Lastly, I would ONLY do this if your mom's "super nice" best behavior continues. At the first sign of nastiness, I'd end the outing and reconsider engaging with her again. Hoover "good behavior" usually only lasts so long, and I think you always need to put protecting yourself and your kids from abusive behavior first.

[Hilltop]

My mother is like this as well, she will be awful but then after I have pulled back she will eventually be really nice, however this is only for a short time and then she turns again.  It's all part of the cycle, lets face it, they can't be horrible all of the time otherwise people would leave and not come back.

Even your EnF seemed like a game. She didn't have contact so she sent him in, got contact and then turned.  It appears she doesn't have any other avenues at the moment except to be nice and play fair until you are reeled back in again.

I would not think about what she wants at the moment.  What do you want?  What can you handle?  As you said, she could see the kids at any stage.  If you feel that a neutral territory works better then perhaps you could meet at a playground or a park for an hour.  Keep in mind this niceness may not last, at some stage old habits may resurface.  I dare say this request has something to do with Christmas and the holidays, it serves a purpose for her. 

I think you are feeling unsettled because she was nice.  Its off putting because you go in with your barriers up, waiting and then it doesn't happen.  After a couple of nice visits your barriers naturally drop and I am not sure how they pick up on it but they seem to sense it and then bam, they catch you off guard.  As you said you have been LC for a few years and have been enjoying it and now they are back.  I suppose you may be left wondering when the turn is going to happen, I think you need to work out how much contact is good for you and go with that.  Then when/if she turns you can suddenly be busy.  Even if you spend an hour at the park with the kids that doesn't have to suddenly turn into a weekly thing.

[wesorya]

I don't particularly want to facilitate a relationship between her and the kids, because I don't believe she genuinely wants a relationship with the kids, only that she wants control again. I'm only comfortable with short outings with me present, in a neutral setting, but she has never ever been willing to do this in the past unless it was suggested/agreed to by my GC sister, who is now not speaking to me as a result of uPDM's covert but exceedingly effective ripping me to shreds - to both her and BPDsis over the past few years/decades.

She's never done outings with the kids or anything remotely "grandparent-like", other than milkshakes with my daughter, who she was grooming for a new GC position, whilst ignoring my two sons.

Her modus operandi is the "pop-in". She pops in when it's convenient for her, drops off something she wanted to offload that I didnt want and am expected to be grateful for, makes snarky passive aggressive comments in the kids direction when they don't drop what they are doing and run adoringly to her (the way GC sister's kids do, who are given warning when she is visiting, and who she actually does activities with and has always spent a lot more time with, despite them living further away, and having a much easier family life).

She's ignored and flouted all attempts at requests, reasoning and boundaries, and claims that I make her sad by blocking her out of our lives. This is clearly the picture she has painted to my sisters also. I know very well that I have done no such thing, and that all of my requests and been more than reasonable and kind, and have all been met with gaslighting, lies, emotional manipulation, the laundry list you all know so well.

After having gone through so much already, and thinking that maybe she had signed her own goodbye when she sent me the text saying that we had no relationship (in  response to my request for her to communicate with me directly rather than passing messages through EnF, in order to improve our relationship - something she has repeatedly claimed she wanted to do) I am not looking forward to being back on the carousel.

Hilltop: I think you're right about the EnF game now I think about it. He was "permitted" to show some extra concern for me as a way to pull them back in - it meant that they could use him as a go-between and piggyback off the goodwill he had earned, so that despite uPDM and BPDsis's awful treatment of me, I couldn't say no to Dad "just wanting to drop off some birthday presents for the kids" and when he turns up - oh look, uPDMum and BPDsis happen to have tagged along.
The "turn" for uPDMum will be when she feels comfortable enough to just start doing her pop-ins again I'm guessing - so I suppose she will want to keep up the nice facade until I drop my guard enough, or the kids do, that she decides she can start it up. Urgh. I can already picture the over the top sweetness to the kids and the comments dropped to them about how she would love to take them out for ice cream etc (she never has - but will say it so that they agree and have given "consent" for her to do the pop-in....).

[Cat of the Canals]

I don't particularly want to facilitate a relationship between her and the kids, because I don't believe she genuinely wants a relationship with the kids, only that she wants control again.

I figured that was the case. I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't even contact you about it further, so you probably don't even have to worry about telling her no. But if you get put on the spot again, you could always have a MC response lined up. "We've already made plans and our schedule is full. Maybe another time." or "I'll have to check my schedule and get back to you."

It's like you said... if she wanted a relationship with her grandkids, she would make an effort. She hasn't. That's on her.

[daughter]

In my experience, the need to "manage the narrative", meaning what our parents seek to present to their friends and acquaintances, drives these hoovers for renewed "contact".  There's no sincere attempt to repair relationship. There's no acknowledgment of our feelings, or that inappropriate behaviors and obvious hurtful actions have caused our disengagement. Nope, it's often more "stage management", need for visit with grandkids, and photos, as checklist activity than any attempt whatsoever to bond.

My "mr nice guy" covert nod en-dad was the flying monkey "fixer", repeatedly and angrily demanding my renewed "dutiful daughter" full attention during the initial months of my NC decision. (In my mid50s, long overdue NC, thoroughly therapized.). He refused to discuss issues, adamant I wasn't "allowed" issues, and "ordered" to re-engage.  That blunt-force FM'ing served to reinforce my NC decision.  His "true colors" were repugnant in their blatant disregard for my well-being, something I long suspected during decades of his FM'ing FOG-filled cajoling to "endure" nmom's obvious disdain and distaste towards me, the parentified overachiever "good girl" SG.

Note, nmom made ZERO attempt to contact me, via phone, email, or USPS in ensuing decade. My parents did formally disinherit me, via attorney certified mail, requiring me to retain attorney to complete disinheritance paperwork. Plenty of hovering via our oldest DS, who still remains in semi-contact with them, including lies about attempted calls. But actually, nmom simply let me go, as if I don't exist.

I'd be wary about these hovers.

[wesorya]

Update:
I agreed to meet with my parents today. enDad called me and said that they wanted to see they kids and "take me up on my offer" (?) or "take them off my hands for a bit".
I agreed to meet them at the local playground and go to the bakery to get the kids a snack afterwards.
They ignored my offers to come with me to watch my youngest play and climb (which he would have loved them to do). uNPDMum intensely and awkwardly questioned the older 2 kids, launching into explanations of things they weren't interested in or didn't understand when they got overwhelmed and didn't have any more answers for  her. I think they are both still processing what happened and haven't said much about it. So am I really.

As expected, uNPDMum pushed boundaries and upset my youngest (5), by getting him all excited about going to her house with her without me, without having asked me first, and knowing that I would say no if she had. I initially wavered under the pressure, but managed to rally myself  and say no. Despite having said no, I still got pushback from uNPDM, saying that she was trying to help, and thought it would make things easier for me (I had to take daughter to try on school uniform), and then made pouty sad faces when I still said no, even though they don't even have a car seat for him, their dog is very strong and hard to control and has knocked them and my son over multiple times before, and we have never even been to their new house which they moved into nearly a year ago.

uNPDM and enDad have not shown any inclination to invite us over to see the new house, but would have had me pick up my son from there and go there by default. I can see that NPDM just wants to get things back on her home turf. All the little games and pokes at my boundaries, whilst putting on her trademarked niceness facade so that enDad will continue to argue on her behalf that I should not uphold my boundaries, that it's unnecessary.

After upsetting my little boy, she continued to push for a visit another day, saying how much she really wants to see the kids, how she hasn't spent time with them in so long etc. I said that we might have some time available in 2 weeks, but I will need to check my diary.

I feel like I'm falling back into a trap. Fortunately I have an appointment with my therapist next week so I can mull it over with her. I really don't want to go to their house, but I know they are going to act like I am being ridiculous and unreasonable for wanting to do anything other than go to their house, and make a big deal about it. I don't know if they still have contact with uPDex2, who there is still an active restraining order against, but I assume they do, given that they passed on Christmas gifts from his mother (but didn't give the kids any gifts themselves).
I just had an idea while writing this all out - I can plan a nice picnic somewhere with the kids, on the day I said I might be free, and invite them to join us if they wish.

[Cat of the Canals]

I just had an idea while writing this all out - I can plan a nice picnic somewhere with the kids, on the day I said I might be free, and invite them to join us if they wish.

I hope you realize how generous this is. If my mother or MIL behaved the way you described, I'd make them wait a lot longer than 2 weeks before I'd be willing to make time for them again.

You are definitely making the right choice in not going to their house. If it were me, I'd make it a private, unspoken boundary with myself that I was NEVER going to their home or allowing my children to go. I also wouldn't let them be with the kids alone anymore. They can't be trusted when it's clear they only have their own best interest at heart (like wanting your son to ride without a car seat????? This is basic child safety.).

[Hilltop]

I think its odd that they wanted your son to go to their house but as you say you have never seen it.  I can understand being uncomfortable with that. 

I have found that my parents on their own home turf can be worse with their behaviour and insults.  I have recently made the same boundary, that I won't go back to their house.  If I do want to see them I will invite them out for coffee.  I think this is absolutely fine to do, it doesn't matter if your parents push back.  You don't even need to explain to them why, just do as you are, invite them places out.

Would it be easier to spread the visits out to maybe once a month.  It does seem like they are constantly pushing you and your boundaries, this would get tiring and as you slip on a small boundary, they then push more and slowly the boundaries are eroded.  Giving yourself more time between each visit may give yourself more time to recover and centre yourself.

[daughter]

That behavior you describe is so familiar, lots of red flags here.  I'd spend some time reflecting on this encounter, before reengaging children with them. Lots of inappropriate behavior occurred, the invitation to "take kids to house", given back-story, the tone-deaf riling-up of kids, the weird conversations, the gaslighting regarding actual underlying relationship dynamics, etc. I think 1st priority is your own feelings, then kids' emotional safety vis-e-vie contact w/dysfunctional grandparents "not nice" to their parent, given history here. You're not "depriving kids" of their ill-behaved grandparent(s), that relationship must be legitimately earned by your parents. Best wishes!

[wesorya]

I just had an idea while writing this all out - I can plan a nice picnic somewhere with the kids, on the day I said I might be free, and invite them to join us if they wish.

I hope you realize how generous this is. If my mother or MIL behaved the way you described, I'd make them wait a lot longer than 2 weeks before I'd be willing to make time for them again.

You are definitely making the right choice in not going to their house. If it were me, I'd make it a private, unspoken boundary with myself that I was NEVER going to their home or allowing my children to go. I also wouldn't let them be with the kids alone anymore. They can't be trusted when it's clear they only have their own best interest at heart (like wanting your son to ride without a car seat????? This is basic child safety.).

Thank you Cat. It's so good to have people understand and validate things here. I've only had two therapists really understand this situation, and the current one I only have 2 more sessions with I'm hopeful my new one will get it.
I have absolutely made the decision that they are not to be alone with the children, they have been made aware of this multiple times since I first made the decision nearly 2 years ago, and have gaslit and pushed boundaries over it, including uNPDM basically breaking into my house the same way my ex-uNPDhusband did, because we didn't answer the door the first time she rang the bell. She had turned up uninvited, unannounced, and didn't even attempt to call, she had not spoken to me or visited us for more than 6 months at that point. She let herself through my side gate, and then in the back door. I was horrified. When I asked that she not ever do that again, she argued the point, I had to repeat my request that she agree not to do it again at least 3 times. She was trying to organise directly with my daughter to take her out (without me), because I had said I didn't want her spending time with the kids without me there.

I feel very similarly about not going to their home. I can't see it being anything but awful, and also setting a precedent for future visits.

Hilltop - thank you, that is great advice and I think it's definitely worth thinking about giving myself more time between visits. I'm sure they will be worse at their home. Mum is always worse, and treats Dad very badly at home in particular. I felt so much more calm being in a neutral place around them.

Daughter - thank you for your thoughts and insights. That's very true. They have done nothing to earn a relationship with my children. uNPDM is finding it easiest to buy my little one's affections at this point. She gave him fresh raspberries at the visit, and he is still asking me about going to visit her. The other 2 are old enough to have a bit more insight into her behaviour and not be so trusting. They also know that she has been unkind to me, and has not made any attempts to maintain a relationship with them.

[bee well]

I agree with the other posters, LOTS of red flags. It's wise to keep your guard up and proceed slowly!

You are already walking on eggshells as you ponder how to handle the situation. Be wary of the cognitive dissonance/FOG that can creep in with these situations, even when we know up front what is going on. It's insidious.

I can't see anything justifiable about the behaviour described here. When boundaries get fuzzy, certain people will take it as consent to whatever they wish to do , and many times they get even bolder than before.

The fact that they have infringed as of late does not mean you have to completely give in to them. as PD type black and white thinking would dictate. This is obvious, but a message worth repeating.

Unfortunately the power plays will continue but you have the upper hand when you practice mindful, deliberate decision making.

Re-affirming LC/ VLC is difficult but you can choose to do that (or not) for the Peace and well-being of you and your children. When you act out of goodness what other people think and say about it is their problem not yours.

Two words for you as you navigate this self care!