Feeling low after the holidays

[Hilltop]

I felt so low over the holidays.  NC with estranged sister, almost NC with parents, NC with extended family.  I see so many happy families around me and I just feel blah about it, happy for them but it reminds me of what I don't have.  We moved away earlier this year and the distance seems to be giving me a detached view of things.  It's hit me that my mother really doesn't like me as a person.  She has often told me I am difficult and now I see what she is actually saying to my face.

My mother sometimes gives me an awkward cold hug when I visit.  I hate them. The last time I visited she gave me a hug.  It was in a hallway and my father was behind me, so as my mother hugged me her face was towards my father.  My back was toward my father. Behind me I heard him do his mocking sneering laugh and I wondered what face my mother had pulled or what she mouthed to him as she hugged me.  I noticed it at the time but didn't see it for what it was.  Now I see that hugging me hello was somehow negative or mocking for them.  There was no reason for my father to be laughing and not in that tone, the conversation was simply hi, how are you, hug.

Now with some distance I see that she will tell me about the coffee dates she will have with friends but never with me.  The holidays she has planned with my sister but when I suggested that her, father, DH and I go out for dinner every couple of months, she told me they didn't want to.  The last time we went to brunch and I paid, my father made a comment saying thank goodness they didn't have to pay for being there. I think this comes into play with my mother being ok going to lunch or coffee and paying for that with her friends but she doesn't want to with me, they only want me to visit them in their house. The phone conversations my mother tells me all about with friends/family but she refuses to call me ever because I only have a mobile phone and it will cost her more, so even on my birthday, it's not worth it.  Mind you she use to mail my sister expensive face cream so she took care of her skin.

I have seen this but it's not fully hit me until now.  As I am now in VLC mode with my mother after a year of put downs and insults she has sent so many, well a few texts, about this year being stressful and next year will be better.  To me it seems obvious that she feels like I am just having a moment and things will resume to normal next year.  She hasn't bothered to ring, just a quick text to see if I'll confirm her beliefs, she has done this sort of thing in the past and this time I recognised her MO and didn't respond.  I have kept all my communications with her positive and neutral.  It's just sort of hit me that she is basically telling me, that next year she thinks I'll be over my little moment and things will resume to normal.  They won't.

The thing that I have really come to understand is that our relationship is difficult because of their continued pattern of behaviours.  The hurtful things they do. I now see that they have blamed me all along, I am difficult, the relationship is difficult but not once have they ever acknowledged that their behaviour is a large part of our problems.  So they do this song and dance about me being difficult and not wanting to spend time with me but the atmosphere is tense because they make it this way with their insults.  I use to tackle each individual problem that came up thinking I had to work through that and things would get better but now I just see a continual never ending pattern of behaviours that hasn't changed in 30 years.  I have come to see that even if it was completely normal for me to be upset over an insult, they would just get upset that I bothered them with my hurt, they didn't want anything to change, they just were going to keep things as they have always been.  They would mock me or insult me but then be annoyed I would react to that, its so crazy making, any normal person is going to react to that or not feel good about it or not enjoy being insulted.

I just feel that with this distance now I see that they have this opinion about me and it's unlikely to change.  They really see me as less than, they see me as something to mock, to put down.  Their treatment of me has been less than the whole way through. 

At Christmas I sent my mother a text and she sent a carbon copy version back to me, little thought.  She gets up really early and would have been up a couple of hours before I sent the text, but she waited for me to send it to her before she replied.  I just feel revolted by her.  I was going to send a New Year's text but now I have decided not to. I plan on enjoying the celebration without thinking of her and just sending messages to those I love.

Sorry for the ramble.  I'm just trying to get my thoughts in order.  I know the holidays are hard for some of us, things get brought to the surface.

[Boat Babe]

Massive hugs Hilltop. Your parents sound incredibly unpleasant, at best. I'm so sorry that this has been your experience. 

Can you take some time out to do something for re yourself right now? Can you journal all this so that if you want to make a decision about how much, if any, contact you have with them you have some rock solid proof (because trauma bonding, abuse amnesia and gaslighting)

I've just put my mother on the train back to hers after four days over Christmas and Im ready to scream. You're on not alone.

[Seeking peace]

our relationship is difficult because of their continued pattern of behaviours

I think it important to keep reminding ourselves of this. These difficult relationships with them started in childhood and have continued to be difficult for this long because of their continued behaviors. The relationships are the way they are because they (our parents) are the way they are. The relationship is not a reflection of us but of them. 

[IntoTheLight]

I have been a scapegoat in my family and have been working on getting to terms about this. I recognise the pattern. I don't know your family, so I can't comment on that, but let me tell you what I found out. I found out that, yes, they blame stuff on me. And, yes, they made me feel like I was difficult. But also, no, they aren't the happy family without me to take the blame. My family is disfunctional. My mother a suicidal borderliner and my father egocentric and unavailable at best. It affected my sister as well and she displays shocking fawning behavior, as well as extreme fight behavior.  Sis tries to win their attention by doing things for them, and it's extreme.

And to give an example about the dynamics, my parents have celebrated 'Sinterklaas' (sort of a Dutch Christmas with gifts) at my sisters house without me... And if I point it out, I am being 'difficult'. And the problem is, even though you have every right to be upset, deep down you still wonder.... Maybe I am difficult?? And it's difficult not to listen to this inner critic. During Christmas this all comes together and I really hate Christmas for this reason. "It's the most wonderful time of the year." Eh, no  it's not. Not for me!

I am sure you are a good person. You deserve respect, you deserve love and you deserve attention and your feelings matter!

[IntoTheLight]

I've just put my mother on the train back to hers after four days over Christmas and Im ready to scream. You're on not alone.

Four days! 

[Hilltop]

Thanks Boat Babe, I really need to start journaling again, it has helped in the past.  I'm glad your four days are over and you can now relax.
Into the Light, yep another SG here, your example of the dynamics is so similar to my family, if I have ever brought up anything I am told I am difficult however nothing is ever said about the original behaviour which is ignored. 

I guess I was recently thinking about my parents when I was younger.  They would have dinners with both sets of grandparents and everyone was included.  They would all go out to dinner, mainly for a birthdays or holidays and then we would go to their houses to visit.  There was a lot of togetherness.  This worked because my grandparents were nice and open and agreeable.  Everyone made an effort.  So when I think about my parents saying no to a few dinners throughout the year I guess I am realizing that they wanted their middle age to be nice with togetherness but are not willing to put that effort in with me.  It was the same with my sister's wedding, I went along, Maid of Honour and it was nice, come to my wedding and my sister refused to come, no argument, no problem, she just said she couldn't be bothered.  No effort again to make something nice for me.

I am seeing that my mother has had her younger days filled with family togetherness, now in retirement she is running around with friends having fun and in her elder years I had this gut feeling she felt I would be there for care taker role.  For me, my parents have pushed me away, there is no family togetherness so whilst they did some care taking, they also had decades of relationship built up before then.  I have decided now that we have moved away, I won't be doing any care taking for them in their elder years, none.  My sister can do it, the GC can do it.

I guess I am really seeing how they have set their life up and it worked because of the openness of others around them however they themselves have not forwarded that openness on.  They only had those years of family togetherness because others agreed to attend, came and were pleasant and happy to join in.  They didn't say no to invitations.  They didn't call people difficult to their face.  Of course this only extended to the grandparents, there were a lot of estrangements with siblings.

I am now seeing that the family togetherness I wanted I won't get because they opted out, simply because they can't be bothered.  I am so angry at them.  For all their talk of family, none of it is real.

[daughter]

Hilltop, your SG role in FOO is very similar to what was once mine.  Same sort of cold-hearted, barely-tolerated, disdainful affect from parents.  I was continually described as "difficult", not for legitimate reasons, but rather to buffer their bad behavior. 

I now realize my enmeshed npd-parents' own emotional disengagement from me was simply projected upon me, as me "being at fault", deemed "unlikeable", to obscure their own malevolent and disordered feelings. 

I soldiered on for many years as their SG "dutiful daughter", overtly disfavored, unquestionably mistreated, told "it is what it is, and we won't change, so you better just accept it".  Yes, frequently so bluntly said, to normalize emotional abuse as if parental prerogative to do so. 

In my mid-59s, I finally acted, and fully disengaged myself from both my nparents and my only sibling, blatantly favored GC "princess" nsis, realizing my unfixable situation had only ONE victimized person - me. 

I realized I had no further obligation to continually offer myself up, over and over, for more disdain, nor for me to still disregard my own emotional need to be truly cherished adult-child too.

My parents' planned "eldercare provider" was ME.  Mine was always "the caretaker" role, me parentified and over-obligated even as a child, groomed to be so.  My needs were zero interest to them. My sole purpose was to be selfless self-sacrificing "dutiful daughter". 

The decision to "go NC" was justified in my case.  I ended that abject servitude towards my two unloving  npd-enmeshed parents.  We can't "fix" our parents, but we can change our own priorities, so as to finally address our emotional needs and fundamental rights. 

Best wishes to you, and you're not alone to be dealing with this problem.

[Hilltop]

Daughter, thank you, I do feel like you have had a similar background to me, just by the way you write.  I like what you wrote about not having any obligation to offer yourself up over and over for more disdain.  Disdain is definitely something I feel from my parents.  I'm glad you found NC and put an end to the constant criticism.

As the New Year approaches I am feeling more and more the shackles of the holiday lowness move away, which is a relief.  Just reading here gives me fresh insight and centre's me.  I was thinking the New Year would bring a period of me working through what contact to have with my parents, worries about when to visit them etc, but now I'm re-thinking that.  I am thinking it's time to turn away from them, turn toward the new environment I am living in, it has so much to offer.  I went for a walk today and it was so refreshing and beautiful. It really uplifted me and got me out of my head.

I feel like visiting them is simply going in for more mocking and disdain, there is no part of me that is ready for that or wants that or needs that. You are right in that I don't need to offer myself up for more.  That needs to be my 2022 motto.

[Jolie40]

I felt so low over the holidays.  I see so many happy families around me and I just feel blah about it, happy for them but it reminds me of what I don't have. 

keep in mind not all families are as happy as they "pretend" to be around others or on FB


some people in our neighborhood have told me their problems which have included job loss, family member living with cancer, care taker for elderly parents, husband had drug problem, almost 30 yr olds moved back home, out of wedlock grandkids, and a grandmother raising the grandkids
police have been in our neighborhood several times for domestic violence, also

we live in a neighborhood of families with kids and retired families yet SO many problems

sending hugs your way

[JustKathy]

I have decided now that we have moved away, I won't be doing any care taking for them in their elder years, none.  My sister can do it, the GC can do it.

That's the decision I made, and now that both of my parents have passed I'm at peace with having made that choice. No regrets at all.

Oddly enough, I felt a responsibility to them well into my 30s and 40s, despite the childhood trauma I had experienced. I was in the best position to care for them, financially speaking, and was also the oldest child. I somehow assumed the caregiver duties would fall on me. The day I went NC with my mother I realized that NC had to be forever because there was just no way I could care for someone who was continuing to abuse me. I was disinherited not long after that, and in some ways, it came as a blessing. I felt that it relieved me of any obligation to care for them in their senior years. My GC sister became the sole heir, so fine, she could care for them since she was going to be compensated for it. To my experience, PD parents only get worse with age, so yeah, let the GC handle it. You've been through enough.

Sending hugs and hoping a new year in a new environment brings you some much-needed peace.

[Hilltop]

@Jollie, I think it's just my mindset at the moment, I do need to remember it's no all as it seems.

@JustKathy, I also felt responsible for them as I have always lived closer to them, the GC sister has moved away so she isn't close.  The inheritance was to be split equally however I have this feeling that the majority will go to my sister if not all of it.  My parents were so panicked their inheritance would not be equally split between their siblings, it was a real thing for them.  I remember my father talking about a friend whose father had disinherited him and given the money to his brother and his friend never got over it. This story has stuck with me since.  I can't help but feel it will be the last FU from them, the inheritance going to my sister only.  They have shown over and over and over again that what is right for them, doesn't have to be right for me.  What they say and what they do are usually two very different things. I don't care about being disinherited however I wouldn't get over being in the care taker role and then being disinherited.  I have this belief that they will give me a small amount and leave the rest to my sister and her kids.  If they do split it equally I will be shocked.  I don't care about the money but it is the message underneath that, that worries me.  Knowing how my father thinks disinheritance destroys people and they don't get over it, if they do this to me, the message will be clear.  Knowing my mother will likely be the remaining parent and she is very vindictive I really feel like the inheritance will be another dagger for her when the time comes.  I could be wrong but moving away has given me freedom from that, I am simply not close enough now to do any care taking. 

I am the same I simply don't want to care for someone who has continually abused me.  If I am not good enough for other things earlier in life even simple things like going out for dinner then they can't think I'll be good enough to be their care taker later in life.  I am glad you had no regrets and were content with the decision you made.

[moglow]

Hey Hilltop - I've tried to respond several times and managed to delete before  could save. Some days me and technology just aren't friends. 

You've responded to some of my recent posts and it seems we're in very similar situations. This smacked me in light of my own:

I have seen this but it's not fully hit me until now.  As I am now in VLC mode with my mother after a year of put downs and insults she has sent so many, well a few texts, about this year being stressful and next year will be better.  To me it seems obvious that she feels like I am just having a moment and things will resume to normal next year.  She hasn't bothered to ring, just a quick text to see if I'll confirm her beliefs, she has done this sort of thing in the past and this time I recognised her MO and didn't respond.  I have kept all my communications with her positive and neutral.  It's just sort of hit me that she is basically telling me, that next year she thinks I'll be over my little moment and things will resume to normal.  They won't.

I did the stupid thing yesterday, broke no contact and called her. I just didn't want all the holidays to go by without a word - I hadn't told her but I unblocked her phone back around Thanksgiving. She didn't even try or I'd have gotten her messages. She sent a Christmas card after I sent mine [she didn't have my new address before, doesn't know I'd moved]. So there's that.

From the way mother sounded on the phone, so much like yours, the new year means she gave herself a clean slate and "all the stress" is behind me/her. I understand and agree on one level, but to just refuse to acknowledge what brought us to this point? We're just going to play nice until the next time she melts down? Hell no. I was civil and let her talk over me as usual, as if I wasn't saying anything at the time, but damn. It's NOT okay and it's not any normal I want a part of either!! None of it is.

Looks to me like we have some decisions to make, for ourselves and our wellbeing, our futures really. 

[Hilltop]

Hey Moglow, yep I see your posts and you seem to be in a similar situation as I am.  We both seem to be at a point of making decisions about what contact we feel is ok.

Don't beat yourself up about  contacting your mother, at the end of the day I think it's better to reach out if we feel we need to otherwise it just sits with me more, the wondering if I should.  At least you did it and it was done with.  I find it really odd to have this nothing sort of relationship and yet they say nothing, just keep on pretending like all is normal. 

I didn't hear from my mother on New Years and like you it was sitting with me, so I ended up sending a Happy New Years text to get it over with.  I got a reply similar to the one I sent however I felt better having sent it.  I did hear from my mother in law who said my mother had contacted her and she had told her what I was up to.  This explains to me why my mother doesn't really need to talk to me, she is getting all the goss from my MIL.  I didn't respond to my MIL, I let it go.  However like you, it's an indication to me that my mother isn't overly concerned with a fractured relationship, she has her information and isn't reaching out for more contact.  It wasn't lost on me that my mother has been happy to reach out to others to send Christmas and New Years messages but not to me. 

At this stage I am happy to let things sit here, a few texts here and there and leave it at that.  I hope the New Year brings more clarity about what you want to do and how you want to move forward.

[bee well]

Hi Hilltop,

So many mixed feelings come up around holidays with all of the societal expectations surrounding family. It's a time of year that gets us thinking about what we and so many out there don't have and/or would like to have. It's a feeling that can hang around well after the holidays.

My NC anniversary comes at the holidays and along with that a lot of thoughts, and more rumination than I would like.

I like to think of it this way: NC feels awful at times.  Lack of boundaries and exclusion when I was inside the family felt awful most of the time. Like being alone inside, with someone constantly in my face.

Re: sending messages, and all the other back and forth we have to deal with on holidays and important days, it is hard there really is no  right way to deal with things. The important thing is to be true to ourselves and to respect our boundaries as best as we can, and do what we feel in our heart is right for us at that time. (sometimes that's not possibile, but unless we are incarcerated, we always have at least two choices.)

Each one of us knows what we can tolerate and we have the right to change our minds.

I have a superficial relationship with one side of my FOO and it feels weird and phony --we exchange messages at holidays but we never ever open up about anything. I have decided with them that as long as no one is stepping on anyone's toes, I am ok with that. For now at least.

There's one thing that stuck out as I was reading this thread and that is the issue of disinheritance. It is a huge blow but it doesn't have to destroy us the way some people would like to think.

I do understand when you say that it's not so much a matter of money but that it's the exclusion, and the thought underneath disinheritance that hurts. it hurts to think that pride could mean more than the well-being of a son or daughter. I'm sorry you are in a situation where you may be having those thoughts.

I kissed any possibility of an inheritance goodbye when I went no NC. When the straw finally broke the Camel's back I didn't even care one way or the other. I had realized that the people in question could live many years, and when all was said and done I could receive nothing or next to nothing anyway. Given the direction my health was taking, even if I eventually received some form of an inheritance, who knows what shape I would be in by then. For that matter, none us us knows when any of our time is up- It could be today or who knows how long down the line.

The fact that you felt responsible for your parents shows your empathy, but the abuse prohibits empathy from being shown in a healthy way. It's good to hear that you have moved far enough away to distance yourself from the situation.

Going one's own way sends a powerful message to those who value money above all else.

You have shown a lot of strength in standing up for yourself, and it might be said otherwise, but I'd bet it's not lost on your family.

I like the way daughter extracted herself from the dysfunction.:
"In my mid-59s, I finally acted, and fully disengaged myself from both my nparents and my only sibling, blatantly favored GC "princess" nsis, realizing my unfixable situation had only ONE victimized person - me."

Whatever our situation is, from NC to LC to having our relatives in our face all of the time, when all in said and done, we are the only thing we can definitively change in the equation.

May the New Year bring lots of goodness, and above all Peace, to all of us.

[Hilltop]

Thanks Bee Well.  I guess I have that phony relationship with my parents now, just a few texts and I am beginning to see that it's probably where things will stay.  I am not interested in more at the moment.  I think Daughter's quote about being the only victimized one is pretty accurate.  I feel the same.  If it's only me victimized then what's the point.  My mother isn't bothering to reach out much either, she hasn't instigated any texts since last November.  There is a sense of being done, giving up, letting go.

I am also starting to see how much time I think about this and what if that time was spent on other things, other hobbies, what if I just naturally got busier with other activities I find enjoyable.  And so for 2022 that's where I am headed, I am going to start filling my time in with other activities, less time online.  If I am doing chores I will use my audiobooks etc, less time for intrusive thoughts.  What if I was busy and then there was contact but it's just a blip on the radar rather than feeling like its a mountain on the radar.  That's where I want to head, I feel like I have bought into their negative opinion about me my whole life and I have gone into life with that weight around me.  I just want to kick that weight off and be done with it.

Thanks for your reply.  We are the only thing we can change and this year, that's the approach I plan to take.  Here's hoping this year brings some goodness and light.

[bee well]

Hi Hilltop,

You're welcome! I'm sorry about the circumstances, but I am glad you started the conversation.

I too have realized how much time is spent thinking about of the utility of exchanges like the ones we are talking about here (and whether or not to reach out). Likely these relatives spend little or no time thinking about any of it, because that's not how they operate. We wonder a lot about our roles, but communication works both ways after all.

I'm with you on your approach. Letting go is the beginning of a new direction...

I like how you talk about "kicking the weight off" and considering the contacts (and thoughts) as "blips on the radar."

I also want to use more of my time to cultivate personal interests. As I do this I am going to try to focus on how it's possible to pick up again, rather than hone into hopelessness whenever my mind starts to wander into old thought patterns.

The audio book idea is good idea- not only for the input but also for the money that can be saved. There is so much material. it's not always possible to order all the books, but a lot of it is out there for free. After I finish here I am going to look for one.

Thank you for your reply, it brought enthusiasm to my morning!

Have a good day whatever time it is, and of course, a bright 2022!

[Whitesheep45]

Hilltop
Thank you for sharing ....
It hurts so bad doesn't it ..seeing it and feeling it .
I've been through yrs of on / off pain .
I want to share some hope . I have now been over 20 yrs NC with m with 1 6 mth period of contact and another 1 mth of phone contact ... Both times disastrous ..
However good for me because I got to tell my story to m of how my life was and been with the trauma and push it back across the table to where it belonged . This was v v liberating ( but I wouldn't suggest it to any one else to do ) . I did it after 20 yrs of on / off therapy and much healing.
I now  see and experience m as a separate entity to in me . Another women on the planet who could benefit from need healing. I feel little anger , little need and little fear ... Amazing .

With my d its been years of LC and painful to let ' daddy go ' . But am happy to report after further healing work and release ... Last mth I had a big energetic shift and the release has finally happened . He is a Seperate entity on the planet a man who is living his life . I a women living my life and taking responsibity for it and me . Finally I am not expecting and am detached . We are still LC but it's on my terms and I've am able to let go of feeling guilty about that .

It's been a long road ..
But I'm finally on my own road and it feels v good. 

No hate , no tears , no pain , no ache

Just me X

[Whitesheep45]

They will always be my parents on paper ...but energetically they aren't anymore .
Maybe this is what they call growing up ?
I'm 48 earth yrs old ...

I feel love for them both compassion .

The love inside of me for me is springing forth as I now don't have any open channels to them .
It's also showing in my life as I detach from a couple of toxic friends .

Could I be on the road to healthy !
To have only people in my life who match that ....

Now that is exciting

[blacksheep7]

Hey Hilltop,

I'm sorry that you had those «hard to accept» feelings for the holidays.  It sure is enough to feel quite lonely when our pd parents are not in tune with us.  The mocking, oh my, I know what that's about. M was a bully and loved sarcasm to get her message across. It hurts like hell.

Covert M was always cold. My dh confirmed it, he noticed it right away. I still remember vividly as a teen when I used to babysit the two youngest sibs during the summer, how she greeted me coming home, «hello» with two formal kisses, no warmth.   She started hugging me when NF died (I was in my fifties)  only in response to what I would do for her.  I too felt responsible, more so when NF died as she had lived in his shadow. We had many arguments and I was getting at my wits end.   
I used to have her over for a day every week, after lunch till 9pm.  If I asked her at the beginning of the week, she would first make sure that she did not have a more interesting outing first, like going to a friends house. My  sibs and I were her last resort.
Nc 5 yrs this spring. I also left it to my 3 sibs to take care of her.

When I was hospitalized, having convulsions, all due to complications and extreme anxiety, she never called. Ok, I was nc but still.  When I reconnected not a word about why I was sick.  I cried my heart out telling her that she hurt me, her, cold as ice only said «we'll start fresh» with a poker face.  That woman just can not go deep, not even an inch. Only badmouthing her  kids and gossip. Other than that, everything superficial that makes her laugh. My sis is the same. That's why they get along.

As someone wrote on this post, this is not a reflection on you!  I hope that you are feeling a bit better.

[Hilltop]

Blacksheep I am sorry you too have had the cold relationship and the mocking.  Its really horrible.  I am so sorry you had so much anxiety you were hospitalized, that is really traumatic and to have your mother's ice cold response is so cruel.  They really can't go deep can they.  I am hoping NC has bought you peace and less anxiety.  Thank you for reminding me, that it's not a reflection of me, sometimes that is hard to remember, that it is in indeed a reflection of them.

Whitesheep I am glad you have found peace and compassion, you have a lot of inner strength.

Beewell I hope you found a great audiobook.  I hope we both find some interesting things to do this year, I hope there is plenty of healing.

I am feeling a ton better and reading here reminds me of the direction I need to go in.  So much good advice here so thank you.