SG backsliding

[jdmelb]

I thought I'd done SO much work. I'd actually gone NC several years ago, survived the immense storm of that. I was out. Then 3 years ago I went back. I felt I could take it. I wanted some sense of family. I noticed genuine change in them - less scapegoating, less painful triangulation. I dared to drop my guard and imagine I'd got my lifelong wish: to be a fully fledged, equal member of my FOO.

Then Xmas comes, and my brother and his family fly home from o/s. I go round to see them, and find out that the previous night, they'd all had a big family catch up and lavish dinner. And what did I get the night of my visit: the leftovers. Literally. Re-heated. Rubbed in my face.

I dismissed it, as I always did. Told myself it's not really happening. Told myself it's because I went NC, so they're just cautious and weary around me. There is some truth to that, but it's also a convenient cover. The SG stuff has been there my ENTIRE life. Long before I went NC, they would have catch ups without me, and then dare to judge me for not coming, even though I hadn't been invited! Maddening.

Xmas was a nice day. I again dared to drop my guard and imagine the best. I looked around and realised we can all tell jokes and get on pretty well, and there must be plenty of worse off families than this one. Then I babysit my twin 5 yo nieces one night post xmas, and they say some hurtful, bitchy comments about my appearance - things that no 5 year old would say, unless they were repeating what they overheard. I went to pick up one of their toys, and she raced in and grabbed it from me and said she didn't want me touching any of her things because I'd make them smell bad. Her sister had a smirk on her face.

Right then I knew: the scapegoating that i've endured my whole life, has just been passed down to the next generation. It will never end. There is nothing, nothing, I can do. I try to join in, it's made known to me over and over that I'm not their equal. I pull away, and all that does for them is confirm what they've believed all along: I'm the difficult, selfish, hurtful one. They all walk on water.

I really did get out. I felt the freedom. It's strange that I allowed myself to get sucked back in, only to get hurt all over again. Right now i'm holed up in isolation at home with covid, and I'm stewing big time on all this. Brooding, picking it apart, feeling the hurt and anger and guilt over and over and over.

These are things only fellow SGs would ever understand. You try and tell someone else, they think you've made it up or are just too sensitive. And maybe my recent examples ARE somewhat trivial, compared to some horror stories. But they have stung me so bad. It's all a repetition of my earliest experiences. Anyway, I guess I'm venting. I came here because I know people here get it. THey know that something seemingly small can really cause a painful storm inside.

I long to claim my own life. To end the crippling guilt inside me that keeps me prisoner. I'm horrified to see I haven't made as much progress as I thought.

[Hilltop]

Nope what you wrote wasn't trivial at all.  What you wrote was hurt and pain that most of us sadly understand all to well.  I remember finding out my family all went out to dinner after a family member's funeral.  A nice family dinner, without me.  I felt so hurt, betrayed and angry at the exclusion.  I like you are well aware that a dinner every now and again is fine, we don't have to get invited every time however after a funeral, at a holiday when a sibling who lives O/S comes back to visit, then yes on these occasions an invite would be normal and expected.  As SG's this is how it is, we get excluded and picked on and then they get angry when we have emotions around that.

I think all to often we try and try because we feel like something will happen, people will mature, time will mellow people's hearts and somehow the relationships will be easier or somehow work.  So we go back in, feeling like this time it will work and often like you experienced they will be ok for a very short while but as you found out with your nieces, this is false.  It's hurtful all over again to realise that.  We realise the fakeness of sitting around that table while people tell jokes and everyone laughs only to then hear the truth from your nieces mouths.  That the SG role continues behind your back.

The message of "I'm the difficult, selfish, hurtful one. They all walk on water."  That message is their message, it's not the truth.  You are not difficult because you were excluded and were hurt by that.  That is a normal emotional response to being excluded.  The truth is that they are difficult because they are the ones who are doing the hurtful behaviour, it is simply a projection they are thrown onto you, they are difficult and hurtful and being selfish with excluding you and putting you down.  How is the fact that you were hurt by their actions, difficult, it isn't, that emotion is a normal response.  I hope you can see that.

I would say you have made more progress than what you give yourself credit for.  I say this because you went and you saw.  You saw what was happening because you have written this post.

As another SG in the family, I see my family gets better at hiding it in some ways and when I'm not reacting they get more out there with letting their insults fly.  No doubt if I react to any of it I will get the "you are so difficult".  Yep PD's love that word don't they, difficult, it seems to be very common amongst them.  I have come to realise that my role of SG is cemented with them.  I can reject it but any time I am in their sphere it's how they see me.  So I choose to remove myself.  I am not NC but so LC that I haven't seen them in almost 2 years.  Unfortunately I have not found a way to move beyond the SG role in the family, it's something they need and will simply return to that as soon as I return.

I found what your nieces said to be particularly vile.  I would simply not watch them again or babysit them again.  I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[jdmelb]

Thank you Hilltop for that thoughtful and helpful response. Every word you wrote is true. A deep part of me does know it, too. That it's them, not me. Sometimes i even feel a genuine sympathy/pity for them, because they are so lost and can't meet their shame and pain in a meaningful way.

It's funny how I spent my whole life having intuitive/instinctive awareness of what's really going on, but then also trying to talk myself out of it. I knew at the youngest age something wasn't right in our family, but a very stuck part of me continues to this day to deny it and pretend I've made it all up. I can literally feel the conflict and confusion running through me.

I probably have done more work than I consciously realise. We all have. It can be hard sometimes with my family, because they really aren't monsters (it's just the siblings, our parents died when we were kids). They have some very fine qualities, have been supportive financially when I needed help, give generous and thoughtful gifts, helped me when I was trying to be a commercial artist etc. Again, the confusion runs through me, because those good aspects sit alongside something very, very painful, raw, denied, unfair and lifelong. Namely, the scapegoating. I dont want to be mired in this confusion forever, but maybe it's part of our lot to carry.

Anyway, thanks again, your words ring true and helped steady the ship.

[Jolie40]

I go round to see them, and find out that the previous night, they'd all had a big family catch up and lavish dinner.

this is just SO wrong! it's spiteful and mean leaving a family member out of a family dinner

it's difficult to stop the stewing sometimes
I've also been stewing over some stuff lately & bet husband is tired of hearing me say "I can't believe...."

also, sorry you have covid
hope your recovery goes well

[nanotech]

Just seen this. I can so relate! I can't reply at length yet but will do later. Hugs to you xx

[nanotech]

I'm so sorry you have COVID, wishing you a quick recovery.
I'm really sorry you've been put though this.
I've had experience of that extra party I've not been asked to.  Then it's been let slip to me that there's been one. With my family, it's usually afterwards.
This was downright mean.
I get it.
They should have invited you. That would have been normal  family behaviour.
Don't beat yourself up at ALL about being sucked back in. It's because you are a decent and fair person. It's hard to lose the hope that they could change, that they seem to HAVE changed. They've done a good job of hoovering and lovebombing you.
Mine try it too. Sometimes it's worked and I've succumbed, only to received the usual discards.
It can then feel even worse. We have the usual discarding treatment to deal with, plus the crashing disappointment of dashed hopes.
I'm VLC  with two family members. NC now with the others, though I will discuss my aging father with them but only if it's an urgent health issue. 
No more passive aggressive round robin emails, spreading the FOG.
JERRY Wise has lots of youtube videos on the subject. He talks about how the family scapegoat ' balances' the  dysfunctional family system. The family uses the scapegoat to dump all of their unwanted feelings and truths, so that they can all stay in denial.
It all gets dumped on the scapegoat.
Just to add, I did a lot of childcare for my BPDsister, thinking I was helping the bonding process with my niece and nephew.  They are now adults and there's no closeness. It's clear to me that growing up they  must have heard many negative things said about me. There were glimmers of it when they were children, a kind of aloofness, some quite ungrateful behaviour following  special treats, but I pushed those observations away.
They also began to bully my children. Sigh.
I'm lucky that I have nieces on my husbands side of the family, who now they are grown, tell me how much they enjoyed my looking after them as children, and what lovely memories they have of me caring for them.
When I first heard them tell me this, I have to say I was utterly amazed.

I told my husband. He replied,

'Of course they enjoyed being cared for by you, you were  lovely and kind and nurturing with them, always have been and will be, and they all love you.'

I then realised that I had judged myself on the way FOO were judging me, and allowed my self-esteem to diminish because of these dysfunctional people.
The FOO can't stop scapegoating, because their perception is skewed. It always will be. They have no self awareness of their deep needs to have to do this. Basically, you're picked as scapegoat because you are a nice, empathic soul. In this way, it's a kind of a compliment! It isn't anything to do with our behaviour, other than we may threaten them, simply by behaving normally. It's certainly nothing we can do anything about. They use our attributes, our kindness and forgiving qualities, to enable the rest of them to keep behaving abnormally.
Growing up. being scapegoated isn't pleasant, but once older, we don't feel safe in the dysfunction like they do, and if we are lucky enough to become aware that there's something very wrong, we can try to leave.
We've been the fixer, so some empathy and kindness has been left to blossom, benefiting them when they need things to be done. Then to maintain the dysfunction, we are then punished though the discard.

It is US who are the lucky ones.
We have that chance to get out of the system completely.

They are responsible for the abuse, but unless it suddenly gets raging crazy, it's so covert and underhand that to them, it's nothing. They don't see it. They think it's normal to treat one family member, and their FOC, as less equal.
Then, even when they rage, they think we deserve it.
When my mum was dying, everything imploded. They couldn't keep the family system safe, as mum was the epicentre of it. My mum begged me for help in unifying the family. Seeking approval ( yet again) I jumped in with both feet.
I then got ALL of  their pain and anger dumped on me. Screaming rages, called a liar, mum denied asking me to intervene, terrible accusations thrown at me, threatening emails, silent treatments, public online verbal attacks on my children, and finally, banishment.

This horrible time, though incredibly painful, was actually a gift to me. It was when I realised that there was something very wrong with my family. It took me a while longer to discover what it was.

I believe your parents have passed, but if any of your siblings get ill, please don't hope that you can do anything. Express concern, but keep low or no contact. Keep yourself very safe.
When they required my services, I was love-bombed, and made to feel confident that I'd be protected, even from the UNPDGC,if I took on the role of  family fixer- only to be hung out to dry.

It's the nature of the beast. Narcissism,BPD, whatever form it may take.
So this is why they never discard us completely and try to win us back— only to devalue and discard us again. We are useful if we remain in their family system. We need to be around so they have us there to dump their negative  feelings and truths on, so they don't have to acknowledge them and deal with them. Then they feel better.  And so-at huge cost to ourselves, we enable their despicable unhealthiness.

Their consistent  ill treatment of us reinforces the dysfunctional structure of the family. It serves to raise their own weak self- esteem. They need this important supply to be regularly topped up, hence the intermittent love- bombing.

IT draws us back into the lair.

A family meal provides much narcissistic supply for them. In the planning, the lovebombing goes bananas. From the planning to the execution, it's one big  huge nasty adrenaline ride for PDs. During the meal, they will often intersperse valuing with devaluing, hence the news of the previous meal, followed by ' a nice day'.  They set our mind at odds with conflicting messages. My family used to dress insults up as 'concerns, or as jokes. I used to come home feeling very strange. Was that love? Nope it was war.

BUT! once you are well, go forth and mingle with some lovely functional people!  They exist! Take care at first. I found I was collecting PDs as friends at first, trying to replace my family. We are trauma bonded to them, so it can feel really odd and empty without them at first. You've been out once- you can do this again more easily this time. The emptiness reduces and goes, gets replaced by healthier relationships, pleasant hobbies, self love.
The sadness too can affect us, but it's work in progress, tapering off as we start to individuate.
Good luck!  We have your back! Xx

From Jerry Wise,

" It's the family's need to have a member they can reject, target and attack,  to keep the light OFF the darkness within the family. It isn't that they view you negatively due to your own actions. They do this so that the rest of the family can 'stay safe' from inner or indeed outer, scrutiny. You cannot over- function your way out of this.
What you can do, is start detaching."

[bee well]

Hi jdmelb,

I'm sorry you have been sick with COVID and on top of it processing the cruel, senseless behaviour you were subjected to.

What I have read in the replies is so spot on.

I hardly know what to add, but I want to voice my support. Unfortunately, a lot of what I have read here goes on in my FOO as well.

As nanotech writes "They should have invited you. That would have been normal family behaviour.
Don't beat yourself up at ALL about being sucked back in. It's because you are a decent and fair person. It's hard to lose the hope that they could change, that they seem to HAVE changed."

That's right.

The exclusion is one of the worst things about the SGing, and it's one of the most insidious, because they can claim we are being petty if and when we point it out. Something my family might have said in a situation similar to yours is "Well, it's been so long since you've been around , we thought you would be busy with your own stuff , it didn't occur to us you would be offended. we were going to see you the next day anyway." That kind of stuff I am sure you are familiar with. Yes, you had been in no contact, but that had been broken. If there was ever a time to invite you, it would have been right then. Offering the leftovers from the night before makes it even more preposterous. Who does that?

Yes, they always have an excuse, and there is rarely if ever an apology. The SG is the one who finds themself apologizing. I  don't like always and never statements but this is the way things work in the uN family system. They don't show enough insight to apologize sincerely. (I personally never even got an insincere apology.) The fact that they continue on in the same way demonstrates this.

You wrote about the nice things that your relatives did. This is how the covert abuse is camouflaged. In the uN family system, The alternating of abuse with "nice" serves to confuse us, and keeps us in that "maybe just it's me" mode. They get to inflate themselves, and unload their toxicity according to their moods.

After I went NC I could almost hear them saying, "after all we did..." My family also did some "nice" things for me. I wrote it all out. The good, and the bad. The latter was many many many times longer. (surprise!)  I think that's the way things are distributed for most of us. I don't know how much writing you have done for yourself, but it can be a great release, and keeps the doubt at bay.

No gift, and no amount of 'nice'" gives ANYONE the right to abuse you. If it feels like abuse, then you have the right not to be subjected to it, and there is nothing wrong with you. They can say anything they want but you know who you are. No matter how much anyone can try to minimize your experience, it's your reality.

Again, I am sorry you are going through this.

I hope you will continue to  seek support and affirmation in this difficult time.... We're here, and wishing you peace and recovery...

[jdmelb]

Thank you SO much for the helpful, thoughtful responses. It really does help to know I'm not alone with this unsolvable crap. I've been too hard on myself I think. Backsliding is probably a necessary part of the journey. I had years of living totally for myself and feeling palpable, daily relief. But I don't think going back has undone all the gains. It's probably because my soul knew I had unfinished business. Always more to learn, I guess.

nanotech: I relate so keenly to your stories. I've been heartbroken, in the wake of babysitting my nieces, to realise my SG role has officially been passed down to the next generation. It felt so deeply unfair. It's something I will have to come to terms with as best I can. I think it's all been exacerbated by having covid - home alone in isolation, nothing to do but lie here and stew - and also, being on the annual month long break from therapy (she's the compassionate witness I never had). When I'm better, and therapy resumes, hopefully I'll pick up the thread of myself again. I've lost SO much of my life to ruminating. Trying to make sense of everything, see it from every angle. A very hard habit to break. (it's the only way I had of helping myself growing up).

nanotech, what you wrote about lovebombing touched a nerve with me. I dont want it to be true - I want to believe they have good intentions. But maybe that's the childlike naivety talking. My older brother (who bullied me horrendously for the first 34 years of my life, until I went NC), has money, and has given lavish presents recently - a Virtual Reality headset to each of us, so the whole family can play games together, an ipad so I can play games with his daughters (they live o/s). And I felt very grateful but tbh, it's had the effect of sort of locking me back into the painful family matrix, and made getting distance a lot harder. If I say no to a VR game, or ipad time with my nieces, then I look like a selfish monster. But I join in, knowing that no matter what happens, I will never be truly accepted, embraced, seen as an equal. I don't think my brother consciously means to do these things, but it's happened nonetheless. It's sad when you have to devote a chunk of your life to figuring out how to reveal nothing, need nothing, challenge nothing, not let on that you know what's going on, just to get some family crumbs.

It's funny you mention family members getting sick. 3 days before I got covid, my younger brother caught it. He is extremely stoic and hates any talk of illness or sickness. So when I texted him asking how he was, and he wrote back saying "dreadful", I knew it was bad, and I immediately felt deep, loving concern for him. I asked if I could bring round some supplements and food, and he said yes, and I dropped everything, went to the shops, bought a bunch of supps and food, wrote out some detailed instructions on how to time the supplements, put it all in a care bag and left it on his doorstep. He didn't respond. No thank you, no acknowledgment of how thoughtful that was. Just crickets. He's gotten better, and I now realise it was yet another instance of me naively thinking I am close with my family, and that they see me in a good light. It stung me, because quite frankly my gesture really was loving and thoughtful. I'm struggling to stay with the truth: I am a good person. Flawed, but genuinely thoughtful and helpful. If my brother cant acknowledge that, then let that be a reflection of him, not me.

bee well - you're so right, it's a no win situation for the SG, no matter what happens. A deep part of my soul knows this, and it's kindly telling me to choose a better life for myself, choose a new family, choose good people. It's clashing with another part that feels very stuck, like a lost little boy who is desperate to be included and respected. My older brother used to set up play zones where I wasn't allowed - everyone else was let in bar me. I would wander the house on my own, searching for somewhere to belong. So many empty rooms in rubbish old houses in rundown towns, so much loneliness, jealousy, deep forlornness. It's all left such a scar on my heart.

Ultimately I agree with you nanotech: we are the lucky ones. We have a chance to get out, to become our own person and find people who see us as we are and only want the best for us. I still battle with a crushing amount of daily guilt - it's one of my default modes. So I have a long way to go.

[jdmelb]

I wanted to add a postscript to this. I've been reflecting as I lie here in my slowly improving sick bed. Self-honesty is very important to me, and being willing to acknowledge or entertain the idea that in some instances I am wrong, or over-reacted, or projected some of my own 'stuff' onto others. It can be SOOO confusing, because as the lifelong family SG, I have been trained to constantly doubt myself. All that crazy making stuff I'm sure you're all so familiar with. I think I've been an intense mixture of deeply intuitive about what's going on, and prone to projecting early scripts onto current situations, where the current reality might not be that bad. Does that resonate with anyone?

I'm open to the idea that my confusion around my interpretations could just be the FOG talking. But I don't think that's always true. So with the above entry, I mentioned my younger brother getting sick and me delivering a care package and being hurt that he didn't respond. When I reflected more on this, it occurred to me that he was really sick, and thanking me for my kind gesture wasn't really on his radar. Eventually he did thank me, and not only that, he came around to my place to return the favour, without my asking, delivering a bunch of supplements on the doorstep. All 3 of my siblings have been concerned for me and checked in several times. So, to use this anecdote as an example, I can now see that there was a bit of projection on my part, an immediate assumption that I was getting the SG treatment, and whilst I think that's almost always there in the mix, it isn't the whole story.

If this is just sounding like primordial guilt talking, then so be it. However, I am interested in becoming more robust as I age, and a part of me feels that de-escalating SOME of my hurt and angry responses to my FOO is actually wise and helpful FOR ME. After all, we are the ones who suffer, when we remove ourselves from life and stew endlessly on this stuff. I guess I'm becoming more aware that what I do, on a daily basis, is what life FORCED me to do when I was very little: ruminate on EVERYTHING and EVERYONE, in order to sooth myself and survive. And a part of me is going: you no longer have to do that as intensely; you don't have to rake over the coals of every family gesture, wondering what's really going on.

I don't know. Sometimes that coal raking feels helpful, sometimes it feels like a self-punishment, or something I do simply because it's familiar (we repeat what is most familiar). It's like I turned constant rumination into a parent or something. My siblings are not monsters. They have huge chunks of their own lives on the go that have nothing to do with me. That doesn't magically excuse their hurtful behaviour, or the ongoing reality of the SG dynamic. But it does make me wonder, today at least, about my own propensity to imagine the worst because at least then I can imagine I'm getting some kind of attention, that I'm being thought of somehow. My therapist is all about this intense notion that we family SGs constantly assume the worst because we can't face the unbearable truth: when we were babies, we were genuinely ignored, forgotten, overlooked, left too long. Anything to stave off the abyss.

I don't know. Food for thought?

[nanotech]

Hi there, I'm awake in the early hours here in the UK, so forgive me if I don't make much sense.
Yes I can see you've had some caring input from your siblings.
I know if I got covid, that my sibs would  find out through my UNPDDAD, but that I would be unlikely to hear from them or receive help. None of them would bring me stuff.
So yes, I see what you mean. I see a possible difference there between your situation and mine.
I also get what you say about the ruminating. It can be damaging, It can feel like a ball and chain, a punishment, yet often we can feel compelled to do it. I'm unsure of the solution. Sometimes I feel it's all I have. Oftentimes, I dress it up as self- help. But I'd probably be better off thinking of other things.
I hope you are feeling better- it sounds as if you may be! I hope that you are soon up and about again.  I'm sending you hugs

[JollyJazz]

Hi jdmelb,

Sorry to hear that you are going through this. It all sounds really hurtful. Having meals without you, serving you leftovers and saying horrible things about you to your nieces is really really hurtful and cruel.

Just so you know you aren't alone - I was (and am) the scapegoat in my family growing up. Even recently I am left out of having certain nice meals, inside family events, and the scapegoating gets passed to in-laws and probably in future nieces and nephews.

It's incredibly scarring to a person's self esteem. Also I remember hearing that sense of doubt, confusion is a coping mechanism. If we admitted to ourselves how bad it really was growing up, it would be hard to keep the relationship between our caregivers we relied on growing up.

I also experience the scapegoating, I'm doing lots of self development work, books like 'The disease to please', 'Stop caregiving the borderline or narcissist', 'Dark side of the light chasers', and 'Children of the self absorbed' are books that really helped me.

Anyway, sending a big hug and support. Just know that you aren't alone. It sounds like you are doing a great job coming Out of the FOG, you aren't imaging it, your FOO are bullies. Scapegoats are picked precisely because we are kind and caring.

One exercise that helped me is writing down positive things people OUTSIDE my family said about me. What are positive things people have said about you? Are there people that say great things about you? I bet there are a lot.

We can't change our families but we can change our relationship/views of ourselves and find warm caring people to be around outside our family of origin. Best wishes!!!

[Hilltop]

Hey jdmelb, glad that you are feeling better and recovering and I'm glad that your sibling reached out and brought you a care package.  IMO the issues you faced were separate issues.  Not being invited to dinner and then being given leftovers to me is not a kind thing to do.  With the other sick sibling that you took the care package to when they were sick, to me, this is a separate issue.  You didn't hear back from the sibling and it's easy to assume this is not nice however this is one of those situations where you don't know what is going on, it's not obvious and as you later learned, they were really sick and when they were better they then returned the kindness and sent a care package to you.

I guess this is where as you say rumination doesn't help us.  I agree that it's a good thing to de-escalate our hurt so we don't react.  As you can see if you had of said something to your sick sibling, things would have gone differently and maybe not in the positive way it did end up going.  I definitely think its a good thing to recognise that other people have their own lives and to work on building up your self esteem and your own life so that when the situations happen that aren't really obvious such as your sick sibling, you can approach it with a calm attitude  and not get sucked into ruminating.  That's the thing with the SG role.  A family will usually not be 100% horrible, there are lots of in between in there as well, there usually are nice times mixed in with the bad.  That's sometimes what keeps us off balance.

I think as well that each of your siblings will be different with you.  Some may be more supportive than others.  If you find that this sibling that was sick is more supportive then it's great that you may be able to nourish this relationship.  Maybe a couple of other siblings will be up and down, who knows but working on being less reactive and de-escalating your hurt feelings IMO sounds like a great idea.  It may also be as others have suggested that your siblings will be more supportive if you de-escalate your hurt and don't react with them.  I mean if I had Covid I would not hear from my sibling, there wouldn't even be a text, so I think it's great that you recognise the positives.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Hi jdmelb - I really related to your account as a scapegoat, it is something I have gone through with my own siblings. Right down to hearing strange behind-the-back talk from my own nieces.

I really admire you for not painting the entire situation, and your family relationship, in black and white. I think when we paint it black, and fall into perpetual rumination, we may be continuing the generational trauma and the family curse in the end. If we paint it white, "everything can be OK" and we return to the fold, only to get hurt. Neither is good for anyone.

When we see the shades of gray, we can acknowledge the things that no longer serve us and separate them from the things that do serve us.

For some of us, that means cutting out family relationships like an amputee or like gangrene. Though I have warm, fuzzy memories even around some of the most wildly sociopathic members of my family, and kind things they did for me, I still acknowledge that they can't have a place in my life any longer. Certain parts and aspects of their spirits or psyches are not in control (the narcissistic and sociopathic parts), and they don't mean me well whatsoever.

That's not to say there are absolutely no good parts of them that arise from time to time, that want to do good for you. (Unfortunately in my situation, when I went directly against the grain in my FOO, the parts of their personalities that wanted to do good for me completely vanished - it was expected that I 100% emotionally caretake for everyone, and I cannot feel stress, trauma, or grief.)

Others can be very LC and tolerate some of this behavior that comes out of a person who is not in control of their own demons. It is up for the individual to decide, and only you know that answer. That said, it is OK to acknowledge the good in people, and not want them in your life anyway-- I think that's the foundation of forgiveness.

Jdmelb, your family is probably never going to see you the way you deserve to be seen.

But I still think it is especially helpful to realize that your brother and other family members are probably not conscious at all of what they're doing or the way they are seeing you. It is probably all completely unconscious, and the darker and more wounded parts of themselves are at the wheel here, trying to pull out of you what they cannot manage to do for themselves (emotionally care or respect themselves, or anyone else, for that matter).

Though it still does not make it OK, because this is the legacy of hurt that continues to hurt so many of us in the form of PDs, narcissism, greed, etc.

Still, some people really cannot grasp, fathom, or really process what they had in their lives until it is gone.

[JollyJazz]

Just on the excellent suggestion of looking up Jerry Wise who talks on family systems and scapegoating from nanotech, these you tube clips are really on point!

https://youtu.be/SPJW9_BEd54

https://youtu.be/docLxL3Z0_U

[daughter]

Interesting comment re rude behavior from the young twins. Im the NC former SG, who endured lots of rude behavior from nmom and GC "princess" nsis, my only sibling, massively enabled by ndad's "it is what it is, and it won't change; you must endure it for my (ndad's) sake" fiercely-enforced dictum.  Guess what?  I found myself a middle-aged woman, navigating same FOO Shark Waters, now dealing with very rude nephew too. Quite obvious where this kid's imperious bad behavior originated, as he deliberately caused chaos in my home at every visit (lots of forced family dinners, natch).  His nmom, and grandma, my nmom, would blandly observe this child's shenanigans with nary a word of redirection or reprimand, as if threatening folks with a dinner knife is normal table manners.

Nephew's unchecked rudeness and destructiveness was a contributor to our NC decision.  Was big red flag for us that continued contact was untenable, given overt disrespect, disdain and blatant dislike displayed mostly to me, but ultimately to DH and kids too (2nd-class grandchildren, et al).  All too obvious Big Bad Behavior, from all three generations, to placidly pretend to ignore, or to timidly continue to grey-rock in hopes of salvaging some semblance of "extended happy family" for our own kids.

My NC decision was huge improvement to our own home life, after initial several months bumpy initial transition.  I've zero need, or intent, to ever reconcile.  Happily, therapy was big help - I needed that firm therapist-reinforced push out of proverbial toxic "nest".

We can't fix them, but we can insulate ourselves from them.

[bee well]

Hi Jdmlb,

It's good to hear you are on the mend.

What distancenotdefense wrote really resonated:

"I think when we paint it black, and fall into perpetual rumination, we may be continuing the generational trauma and the family curse in the end. If we paint it white, "everything can be OK" and we return to the fold, only to get hurt. Neither is good for anyone."

I couldn't agree more.

This morning I was thinking about how certain good parts of my life have gotten lost in the storm that led up to NC, and the aftermath.
After going NC I looked back and finally realized the depth of what had actually happened. Unfortunately most of it was very very sad, and extremely hard to grasp. I had to  do a lot of thinking (and reassessment) of a a painful reality to begin unravelling the situation.  In that rare sense the rumination has been useful, but it's not a place I hope to be years down the line.

Allowing myself to remember those good times is something that for me represents a part of healing. It's unpleasant to think about many of my FOO but I recognize the good they did, and the good times that were had.  I still get sucked into the rumination (much less now though)  but acknowledging the positive when those thoughts come up is helping me to find a more balanced way of thinking about it. (Always very careful not to slip into "euphoric recall" about what brought me into NC).

If we are at a forgiving place and we let certain people back into our lives, I think it's important to continuously evaluate the "weight" of what they bring into our lives. Is it worth it? That's a question worth repeating.

We all deal with it in our own way. In my case the risk is too great to give more chances.

Whatever the situation, not I or anyone here (or anyone else for that matter) deserves to have the goodness in their lives erased.

I wouldn't beat myself up about occasional bouts of projection and reactivity. If we have been continually exposed to negative behaviours. it's only natural that we would project and be reactive at times. Obviously it's something we want to avoid, but if we catch ourselves in that place we can recognize it, and work on ourselves.

Also the comments by different posters about younger family members being brought into the drama is interesting. When I put the pieces together after NC, I realized that a lot of the younger family members' behaviour towards me was not in my imagination, they were actually being groomed as flying monkeys. It's tragic that people bring their children up in that way. On the other hand, it's empowering to know we have the choice to not follow that path, even if our families do.

Just some thoughts.

[jdmelb]

Just fell into a trauma storm. My whole family has flown up to Sydney for the weekend for an uncle's birthday and I wasn't invited. Only found out by chance because a sibling posted a pic on facebook. I just feel so defeated and done. Like what's the point. All this effort trying to understand, process, make room for everyone's flaws and my own, forgive, forget, all these years of therapy and journalling and self help books. For what? I'm the family scapegoat, I always was and I always will be, no matter what I do or don't do. I'm done pretending anything else is true, and feeding off occasional scraps of kindness and acceptance and doing this endless, exhausting dance of making room for everyone's pain and limitations, when they're all off having a remarkable, booze-fuelled, loved up time without the faintest hint of guilt about not having at least invited me.

[moglow]

Damn. That's harsh, I mean they couldn't try and give you a chance? For your sake, maybe block them all on fb so you don't have to see it. I wouldn't want to know.

[Hilltop]

Ouch, that's really hurtful.  I'm sorry.  The maddening thing is if you say anything they will blame you for having emotions around that even though what they did was particularly hurtful.

As you say I have also lived for the occasional scraps of kindness and acceptance however it really isn't enough.  It's a hard place to be.  I got so sick of being on the outside looking in.  What was particularly painful for me was acknowledging I am not liked by my family and to have the SG role shown to me over and over.

Its not worth it.  I hope you give yourself plenty of self care at this time.  Our self esteem takes a massive dive during times like this.

[jdmelb]

Thanks for the helpful responses. Thanks also for the deeply thoughtful responses in January from several terrific souls. I screen shotted all of it and saved to my "healing" folder. I agree with all the sentiments about not ruminating, being discerning, seeing the good, letting go, detaching. All life giving, life saving gestures worth fighting for. But how I reacted this morning, when I saw that pic of my family in the sun without me, it's like it hurtled me back 3 decades and I was a deeply wounded, defenceless child again. Sometimes I feel such a clash between the 'mature' part of me that's doing all the work, and that child part that just wants to have his feelings and be loved and championed exactly as he is, without having to DO anything. I'm so sick of working so hard to help myself.

Sometimes I worry that i'm trying too hard to talk myself out of things, because I want everything to be ok, and that deep down there are these horrible, broken, unfair, hurtful undercurrents in my family. I don't know. I really felt the clash between two worlds today (young and old, wise and clueless, self-soothing and the part of me that doesn't want to self sooth, it just wants to be loved). It was very sharp and I fell into a pit and couldn't get out for hours. In the end, I forced myself to draw a bath and listen to some good music and get some sun. Self care is sometimes a bridge too far.

Does anyone else ever feel that they are a mixture of very insightful/intuitive about other people and social dynamics, and on the other hand, prone to fantasies, black and white thinking and paranoia? And even there, I dont know whether that is true about me, or whether that's the scapegoat-induced crazy making causing me to doubt and judge myself. On days like today, I just can't win. Somehow, life goes on.