I'm just hurt.

[losingmyself]

I don't know where to put this, maybe admin will know where to put it.
I just need to share this with people who will understand more than anyone else can.
My DS who is 23 is moving houses. I found out last night. He's moving in the next couple weeks. I have seen him a number of times, and he has never mentioned it to me or H. I thought we were doing ok, but I feel like this is a clear message that I am not ....important?.. to him? I don't know, but I feel like he purposely kept it from me, and I can't blame him one bit.  Just when I think that maybe I can have my kid's forgiveness, and maybe edge toward forgiving myself for staying married or even marrying my H, even when they left me, the rug gets pulled out from under my feet.
I guess maybe he just wants to keep me at arm's length, and I should just be happy that he wants to talk to me at all. I asked DD if she knew, and she did. She said I should yell at him, but I do not deserve to.
The voice in my head says "He treats you how you deserve to be treated, if you had been a better mom, he would share his life with you. But you suck so this is what you get"
Ok, thanks for reading. I'm going to go sit in my pity pool for a little while longer. Haven't been here for a while. The water's cold..

[losingmyself]

Ok, I forgot to say this...The reason that I'm talking here is because I tried to talk to H about it a little, and his only concern is that he's sure DS's dad knows and has known that he's moving.
And this is what he's going to base his anger off of, and all the things he's done for DS, and look how he gets treated. Because it's all about him.
I have to bury my hurt, and listen to the man who caused all of this tell me how he's the victim here, HE doesn't get treated right. Like he was father of the year 10 years standing.
That was a vent.

[moglow]

What if you rip the bandaid off with your son and ask him about his planned move, let him know you know? He may have said nothing dreading a big dramatic scene he knows could be possible. It's not shameful and shouldn't be treated as such whatever dad might think. He's an adult moving out, not a 13 yr planning to run away.

Hiding and/or lying about it leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth. This way you can talk about basics, does he have everything he needs, is he going to have roommates, etc. It's something for him to get excited about, not hide!

[Poison Ivy]

 

[losingmyself]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I did talk to him about it. Last night he said something like "When we get moved, I'll have a shop to work in" And I said "What do you mean, 'When we get moved? Are you moving?"
So, He told me that the couple that he lives with bought a house, and he's going to move with them until he finds a place of his own.
I asked him when, and where, and if it had outbuildings, etc.  Then, I expressed my happiness for them all. and offered to help when they move.
I did not ask why he hasn't told me the last few times we saw him, the last being just a few days ago. That's the thing I'm hurt about. And I don't feel like I can complain to him, or ask him why he didn't tell me, because I feel like, I guess I don't deserve to be told. I don't deserve to tell him that he hurt my feelings, because I hurt him and I'm the mom. I brought a bully into our house and didn't kick him out. It is, to me a clear sign that he hasn't forgiven me. And that's ok. It just hurts. But you reap what you sow.
They are signing the deed next week, so this is not something that happened recently.

[moglow]

Losingmyself, is it possible you're blaming yourself needlessly here? DS may not have intended to hurt you in any way whatsoever, might actually be surprised if told you're upset.

I'm not at all minimizing your hurt  just trying to help you see other possibilities. What I'm saying is, this may have nothing to do with a presumed lack of forgiveness on his part  but just a young man making decisions and living his life. Or maybe he didn't say anything to keep you from being the fall guy with DH, protecting you in a way?

[losingmyself]

Thanks, Moglow.
Your thoughts mean a lot to me

[moglow]

I'm trying to err on the side of caution where I can, stop myself from assuming and seeing things that aren't there. It takes a village sometimes.

[SonofThunder]

 

Hi losingmyself,

Im sorry that it hurts when we parents are the last to find out.  My adult daughter and adult son are now both married have a great relationship which is fantastic.  When I empty-nested I many times found myself the last to know.  At first, I was hurt about it, but over time, I realized, like MoGlow said, that they are being independent and in some cases, they are excited to do so, and so letting mom or dad know, is way down the line of priorities.  In fact, for my kids to really practice and flex their independence, I NEED to be the last to know lol. 

You wrote:  " if you had been a better mom, he would share his life with you."   Again, will +1 MoGlow on potentially looking at these events from the opposite side.  I understand the hurt at first, but congrats on raising kids into independent adults who have a relationship with each other.   Sounds like a GREAT mom to me!! 🤛🏼🙌🏻

"In the end, it's not what you do for your children, but what you've taught them to do for themselves that will make them successful human beings." ~ Ann Landers. 

SoT

[hhaw]

We  can torment ourselves in so many ways.....
ruminating on the past, which is gone......
rummaging around in other people's heads, worrying about intentions and meanings we have no way of knowing....
fearfully thinking about the future and what A or B or C possibilities would mean about us IF any of those things happened to be true (unlikely.)

The old patterns and beliefs about ourselves keep going round and round, inside our heads, don't they?  Despite what we know about youself..... that you care deeply about the thoughts of others and their wellbeing..... you're kind and considerate and have good intentions, always, even though you're human and wrestle with the traumas of your life without blaming and finger pointing while other people in your life DO blame and finger point with you stepping up to carry blame not belonging to you as well as any that does.

I'll give you some advice about what I try to carry around and what I try to put down...... if it makes sense, consider using it.  If not, no harm done.

1.  Be very kind to yourself, always.  Pretend you're tending to a young child....... use those words and speak to yourself with tsunamis of self compassion.  After all, you've always done your best.  Your intentions are good.  You're certainly willing to do better and strive to learn how.  Think about how few people in your life DO that. 

2.  Try to drop all judgments.... good, bad and indifferent.  Just..... release them...... and get very curious about what's really happening.... all your thoughts..... all your actions..... become aware and notice them.  The same with other people's thoughts and actions...... don't assume....... stay out of other peole's heads (SOOOPHing) and ask gently for any clarifications instead.  Your son might not answer, but asking him for clarification is all you can do about it..... for yourself.  It's a healthy way to relate to your grown children.  He chooses how to respond and an adult will be respectful and honest with you.  If he attacks or is snarky.....thats's on him.  You can't control him or his responses.  You can only BE what you want the relationship to BE. Put out the energy you want him to receive and give back.  Be patient and responsive...... notice when you can't be.  Understand when you're reacting and triggered.  Notice when you stop being reactive, consider your choices and respond according to what you want your son to hear, rather than being swept into pain or hurt or fear or anger..... just notice.

Being curious helps me stop making judgments....and it's just practicing, forgetting, noticing the tension and anxiety catch me.... going back to practicing. 

3.  Accept whatever it is that's going on in the present.  Whatever you discern to be truth....trust yourself to figure out what's true and make friends with it. 

4.  Breathe.... like you're filling a vase from the bottom of your lungs to the top...... slowly....... with intention.  Esp when you're stressed.... breathe.  Trust everything will be OK.  And breathe.

[Hilltop]

I don't want to minimise your feelings either however it may not help to make assumptions.  You say your son said "When we move".  Is it possible that so much has been happening that he forgot he hadn't mentioned it, he brought it up like he thought he had told you.

I moved recently and to tell you the truth there was a lot going on before we made our decision and it became final, it was a very busy and frantic time.  Your son was also relying on other people for the move to be possible.  Even though they haven't signed the deed, perhaps your son only recently made the decision to go along. There is a lot for him to be working out at the moment, moving, setting up the new workshop, thinking if it will fit in with him, as he said he will look for another place later.  Perhaps he wanted to make the decision without other opinions and thoughts.  That is not personal to you but just your son being independent and working through things on his own, which in all honesty at his age, it's good for him.

Honestly I question what advice your daughter is giving you to yell at your son because he did not give you information as quickly as you would have liked.  So he told a few people prior to telling you.  He did actually tell you, you didn't have to ask, he actually told you.  You are simply upset he didn't tell you first.  It's still another couple of weeks until he moves, his mind is probably filled with logistics at the moment.

You are making assumptions that he has not forgiven you and that this is some sort of punishment.  Now you are making this about you when it's not.  Your son has told you that he is moving, you just weren't the first to know.  If you are hurt by that because it triggers something in you, this is something you need to work on yourself.

I would work on your own triggers and guilt about what happened previously because yelling at him over this, is not going to help, nor is your husband being angry.  It is your feeling that you are not important, your son has not said this, you are reading into his actions and making assumptions.  This is not about your son, this is about your own triggers.

If at some point it does become obvious your son has some resentment, it can be dealt with then.  I just think bringing anything up now when he is busy with a move and setting up a new workshop may not be the right time.  It will add stress where there possibly doesn't need to be any.

[losingmyself]

Thank you, everyone. You don't know how much it means to me to have this community to talk about these things.
As I was reading, I could feel the knot in my stomach loosening, and I feel much better. Thank you and God bless you all for taking time to talk to me about this.
I was making a mountain out of a molehill. I just have to get used to often times, being the last to know. You're right, I have great, smart, independent kids who love me, and who could ask for more?
My DD didn't mean that I should yell at her brother in an angry way, just more like, give him crap for not telling me. Just jokingly, really. The two of them are very close, and I am not surprised or hurt at all that they know things about each other well before I do, I think that's normal.
My big issue was that I saw him just a few days before I learned of his moving, and asked him what's new and he said "Nothing" I guess I just have to learn to not take things so personally.
Thank you all again
LM

[SonofThunder]

losingmyself,

You wrote: "My big issue was that I saw him just a few days before I learned of his moving, and asked him what's new and he said "Nothing" I guess I just have to learn to not take things so personally."

I realize also that in order for my two adult/married children (both still in mid/upper 20's) to be increasingly independent, which also includes their desired full responsibility for correct or incorrect choices, it is purposed by them that i do not know until the "correct or incorrect" is fully known.  That requires i not know anything about the endeavor until it is fully decided or complete. 

Therefore i also get "nothing" until they have fully committed to a decision or have fully completed. That took some time, as a dad, to understand and adjust. Yet in hindsight, i did the same with my mother, in my quest for full independence and her friendship.  Also in hindsight (and opposite) i purposefully hid my choices from my uNPDf, as i knew that I would receive unwanted advice, negativity and him trying to steal my thunder of my own desired experiences in independence. 

The fact that your son said "nothing" may actually mean he has not only his independence in mind, but his desire to share (after final decision or completion), his result with you.  My two children do this, and in sharing afterward, they desire interaction with me about the results (success or fail) as a friend, not as a parent.   If I react as a friend, they are free to share both the wins and losses in life, without judgement or unsolicited advice. 

So, your sons "Nothing" may just mean the opposite of what you initially felt, as you are so important to him, as a mom and adult friend, that he is looking forward to sharing his independent wins and losses with you afterward. 

SoT

[Hilltop]

LM.  Your feelings are your feelings, it's not making a mountain out of a molehill.  If you feel hurt, you feel hurt.

I get that you saw him a few days earlier and he said nothing new was up.  Perhaps he told your daughter before that and I can see why you may find that hurtful.  However I think talking with peers is different to parents.  I get the feeling he wanted everything to be in place and happening before he told you.  Peers have a way of letting issues go whereas parents sometimes worry.  I don't know if you give advice or try to be helpful but perhaps he just wants to make some decisions on his own, at his age I think this is really normal.  In your early 20's if you tell your parents an idea well they usually have an opinion or questions.  Part of being confident with your own decision making process is to break away a little and make your own decisions with little input.  Even mistakes are great for learning.  Well done on having such an independent smart son. 

I'm glad your daughter didn't mean to actually yell  .  I was thinking that would be very unproductive. 

You are being so hard on yourself.  Just be there, be supportive.  You'll be great.

[Poison Ivy]

I agree with everything above about healthy adults wanting decisions to be made and activities completed before sharing them with their parents.

[losingmyself]

You guys are the best! Thank you for helping me see things from a different angle. I can always count on you!
You all actually made me feel better than I thought I  would! I am a very proud Mama, and I am very happy that my two grown-up kids talk to each other openly, and I do not need to know much at all.
That being said, there's a snowstorm today, and I did text DS and told him to stay home

[Poison Ivy]

My children are 28 and almost 31 (next week), and I still (and probably always will) communicate with them more than they communicate with me. And we get along very well with one another.

[losingmyself]

One of the healthier signs of being a Non is being able to admit when you overreacted or made a mistake, I believe.
That being said, I need to say that when I spoke to DS the other day about how his move is going, and kidded him a little about not telling us, he said that he told us in October.
I know that he didn't, and I argued a little about this. You would think it would be a thing I'd remember! Anyway... I dropped it, because he honestly thought he had told us. And that made me feel a little better.
He was probably wondering why I hadn't brought it up!
Also, I'm going to make him take casserole dishes. Because whether he needs them or not, I'm the mom. And I have too many. 
So, I feel kind of bad for overreacting, and wasting your time. I must have been feeling vulnerable that day. That happens a lot.
Thank you all for making me feel better in the moment. I appreciate it so much

[SonofThunder]

One of the healthier signs of being a Non is being able to admit when you overreacted or made a mistake, I believe.
That being said, I need to say that when I spoke to DS the other day about how his move is going, and kidded him a little about not telling us, he said that he told us in October.
I know that he didn't, and I argued a little about this. You would think it would be a thing I'd remember! Anyway... I dropped it, because he honestly thought he had told us. And that made me feel a little better.
He was probably wondering why I hadn't brought it up!
Also, I'm going to make him take casserole dishes. Because whether he needs them or not, I'm the mom. And I have too many. 
So, I feel kind of bad for overreacting, and wasting your time. I must have been feeling vulnerable that day. That happens a lot.
Thank you all for making me feel better in the moment. I appreciate it so much

losingmyself,

I enjoyed the deep conversation and thinking about the interpretation angles, so thanks for starting the thread, although it revolved around your negative experience and to that, im glad it is resolved.  I consider myself somewhat of of a HSP and combined with my natural traits of detailed-analysis, i can 'overthink' many things haha. 

But, I also believe that 'overthink' as a term is subjective.  I enjoy it much more than some of my family members and there's the PD's in my life, who know I think deeply, manipulate it and then attempt to belittle me with it.   Again, very glad you were able to find some rest regarding the situation. 

See you around the boards. 

SoT

[Hilltop]

Hey losingmyself, I am glad it worked out and you know that there isn't any resentment on your son's part.  That chat worked well for you and I'm glad it worked out.  I did think his language of 'When we move' sounded like he thought he had mentioned it so what he said to you makes sense. As you say he didn't mention it however it does sound like he thought he had, so it sounds like it was simply a miscommunication.

I know I have been prone to assumptions or mind reading where I have taken on board negative feelings because I believe another person's actions are about me or I read into them.  I don't think this helps much and I try hard to move past this.  So much of the time we simply don't know what others are thinking or feeling and you were right to talk to your son and clear the air, it has resolved your issue.  However those assumptions led you down a path of feeling that he hadn't forgiven you which turned from a miscommunication into as you said a pity party.  As you both have a healthy relationship with each other you may be able to communicate in the moment and talk honestly and then save yourself going down a path of feeling hurt over him not forgiving you etc when that wasn't the issue at all.  It would also perhaps prevent you from talking with your daughter about it and her getting involved which may lead to problems such as triangulation and problems with communication later on with your son.  If your daughter was to say something to your son and in reality he did nothing wrong, you can see how a simple miscommunication can blow up.

I'm really glad you were able to resolve this for yourself and I really hope you see that your actions of simple direct honest conversation with him led to such a great result.  I am hoping you continue to nurture that in your relationship with your son and continue to go to him directly and clear the air.  Its great that you have that honest relationship and I am glad you are nurturing that.