Affection, touch and sex

[baffledhuman]

Hello. I'm prone to writing overlong, but I will work to keep this reasonably succinct.

I've got concerns about how my u/dBPDw (u/d: She informed me about a month ago that a therapist had told he she had BPD traits; yesterday, however, she told me the therapist said she never said that ... so I'm not sure what to think) and I relate with regard to physical touch, from affection to sex.

My wife flatly states, and has even stated in therapy, that she "can't" provide affection or touch as I've requested. I am very affectionate, and she says she likes this. After conflict, I think I can say (extreme as it sounds) I am the one who approaches with loving affection to re-connect 100% of the time. I know, and she has agreed, that if I do not do this, we simply will not re-connect. It is utterly incumbent upon me to provide all of this in our relationship.

And while she will occasionally initiate sex, 95% of the time I have to approach her. Once we are becoming intimate, she is completely passive. I spend a lot of energy reassuring her, asking her if what's happening feels right, inviting her to tell me what she wants or likes, but she is deeply undemonstrative. She says she enjoys sex with me, but (to my eye) her body is very passive and she does not compliment me, draw me in. Put succinctly, I don't feel "wanted," but I have a sex drive and I always enjoy sex with her, despite this (I have never had any performance problems; I am in good shape, a runner).

She thinks she's complimenting me when she says, "Thank god you're not a 'bag of dead snakes' down there," her way of saying (I think?), I'm glad your body demonstrates rather vividly your attraction to me. I, on the other hand, always feel a little bit in the dark. I'm the one, actually who invites and encourages her to pursue an orgasm (can we say that here?), and I'm the one who encourages her, enjoys seeing her enjoy herself, etc. I add all that just to note that I'm not inattentive, physically unattractive or failing to "perform" (man, I hate that word). God help me, though, if I ever get hold and "fail" to properly demonstrate my arousal and attraction on demand, right? Yikes!

I am more sexually open than she is, regarding fantasy and so forth. She knows this and in theory is fine with it; she will even indulge some of my fantasies (not way, way out there, promise) sometimes. However, I believe I get frequent messages from her that she finds my sexuality rather distasteful. If I become, shall we say, energetic in pursuit of climax, I'm making her feel "not connected." I've offered to NOT climax in that way, since it does require a certain amount of movement on my part, but this offends her.

Before we were married, she told me often how personally wounded and offended she was when she discovered "evidence" of her former husband's masturbation, "acoutrements" as she called it. Again in theory, with us she has always said, "That's your business; I just don't want to know about it." When she comes across "evidence" (say, a computer search accidentally left open), she is, in my opinion, shaming.

I think I get dual message about masturbation and porn use. But I unilaterally gave up all porn AND masturbation in the wake of my affair, in an effort to turn toward her. This, I have done, and I'm both pleased and surprised at my age to discover how much of a sex drive I still have. She was for a time receptive, but now, not as much. I'm maintaining my self-imposed limits on P&M, even as she continues to restrict sex more and more. She is very clear that she finds it hurtful and offensive that I would have any sexual thoughts or fantasies that don't involve her (though almost all of them do!)

She also long ago exiled me to a separate bedroom. Recently, she required that I move into the basement when I had covid, which was fine. However, now that I am recovered she is trying to talk me into why I should just stay down there permanently. Right or wrong, it feels bad, a little like the character Milton in "Office Space," being continually downgraded and finally moved into the basement with a can of roach spray!

We've had several months of very difficult communication, because I betrayed our marriage vows at the end of a long time, many months, apart. Before I left, she offered me what I would call a "hall pass," i.e. suggesting that she knows it's a long time away, and if "it" happened, she just didn't want to know about it. (I did NOT request this; this was unilateral on her part.) I assured her that would not happen, but that "open door" preyed on me, and in the end I mad a bad choice and did violate my marriage vows.

I do not justify my bad choices, but I do think it's relevant that she did, in fact, invite me to a) have sex (so long as it wasn't a "real" relationship and b) NOT TELL HER ABOUT IT. Because I'm naive and not very secretive, she discovered the infidelity, whereupon it became — and remains — the gravest threat to her wellbeing in her entire life, despite a rather harrowing childhood with a true BPD mother (the most difficult person I've ever met, by far). Nothing else may be discussed, and my role is to come to her in abject submission to any and all behavior on her part, including frequent outbursts that even SHE has described later as "psychotic." To me, it's out of proportion to my transgression, but it seems to serve her long-time narrative that I am "the perp" and she is, perpetually, "the vic." Always. She is unable to accept that she can hurt my feelings, and if I say my feelings are hurt, all of her effort goes into explaining why I'm simply wrong, and that I should not feel hurt; in the end, I'm almost always apologizing to her and desperately backing away, defending myself.

I have spent many months trying to do everything the experts say to do to help her recover from my betrayal, but I find she's only gotten worse. I know this takes time, and I repeatedly have told her, "You have all the time you need." Unfortunately, her behavior continues to deteriorate, and the better "behaved" I am, the worse she seems to get. It's exhausting and baffling, but it almost seems like this works for her ... she's now got the ready-made brickbat which, in her eyes, trumps everything else in our lives. I am now, demonstrably, a liar and a cheater and anything I have to say is simply invalid. End of story.

I do want, perhaps even need (though I hate putting it that way), touch, affection and yes, sorry, even sex. But I'm feeling ever smaller in my pitiful attempts to get whatever I can, almost embarrassed. At times I realize it is the same feeling I've had with her our whole marriage on other things that she seems to have control over, my privacy, my diet, etc. I feel like the little boy I once was, desperate for mummy's attention, trying anything and everything he can to be loved, because he knows that whatever love there might be, it is entirely conditional on his behavior. As if he's a circus seal or dog being asked to perform tricks for his dinner.

Not short, not surprised. But glad to have the opportunity to put it out there.

[bloomie]

baffledhuman - I did a bit of reading of your back posts to have some further context.

Withholding... anything - forgiveness, affection, sex, companionship, understanding, information, recognition, and so much more that you describe in your posts is one of the most powerful and difficult engrained control behaviors I face in my own relationship. I experience it as a atmospheric power struggle. And it can be exhausting.

Making a mistake and betraying is something you seem to regret and own your mistake.  It sounds like you are trying to clean that up between the two of you and it isn't going so well. Your mistake doesn't mean you deserve to live in an atmosphere of punishment.

Fear and punishment are often tools used to control. It is easy to become obsessed with determining who is at fault and figuring out the appropriate punishment for their crimes and that can become an obsessive kind of preoccupation in relationship if we are not careful.

But, punishment doesn't bring transformation in relationships and people, in my experience. It seems to only escalate our innate self preservation instincts and makes things worse.

If there are things you are still doing that your wife experiences as betrayals and you are trying to build trust and reestablish an intimate relationship then take a look at those things and figure out your side of the street with that stuff which I suspect has been a long issue between you.

I guess what I am thinking is there needs to be true humility and contrition on both sides of the street here. Your wife has some stuff she has not (from what you have shared) owned and taken responsibility for and seems to vehemently fight back when confronted with mistakes she may have made. Possibly there is more you could own here, too. I don't know.

But, what I do know from my own life is if you BOTH cannot get to a place of willingness to work through very complex issues and behaviors within yourselves and your relationship that have been damaging your marriage you will be looking for insights and tools and ways to manage your relationship for the rest of your life, versus healing it. That seems to be the place you could start. Is your wife willing/able, stable enough to take responsibility with you for reestablishing connection, trust, respect, and intimacy?

My two pennies for what it is worth. Take what you need and leave the rest.

[baffledhuman]

Thank you for your kind reply, bloomie.

I recently went back to a 12 Step group I left many years ago (not because I didn't like it, just got lazy I think). Through that program, I have a good foundation of knowing how to stay on my side of the fence and accepting responsibility for my actions and making amends. Never perfect, obviously, and in the wake of my infidelity, was really reacting out of defensiveness for awhile. Now that I'm back in the program, I'm very pleased to remember that I can, indeed, control my own behavior.

In general, I'm the most "gray" person in the world. I was a long-time journalist and I rarely see things as black or white. This is helpful, I think, when it comes to seeing my part in any relationship. And particularly since rejoining my program, I am (sounds silly to say) actually very proud of how I've done.

The most challenging thing about it is that my wife has, by her own admission, gone "downhill" even as my behavior has changed. What's truly curious is that she now reacts with paranoia to my better behavior, sometimes accusing me of putting on a facade while I plan a "sneak attack."

I feel such incredible empathy for her in that. It must be unbelievably painful to be unable to see one's own role, such that no matter what happens, it's always the other person's fault and indeed MUST be their fault.

I've not been perfect in my communication or actions since rejoining the program, but I give myself an A/A-. She acknowledges in her saner  moments that this is vastly preferable to my losing my temper, and yet she cannot seem to shake the idea that  I'm "up to something."

It's sad and a tad scary! But I'm hanging in, hoping (perhaps foolishly) that it will get better.

[square]

It's frightening to her because she has lost control of you.

As upsetting as it must be to have you lose it, at least she knows that she affects you, which is one basic component of caring.

Thing is, controlling yourself does not mean you don't care. But in her world, care involves emotional displays, even negative emotions - possibly primarily negative emotions.

Of course there is another factor to this. Let's be honest. We cannot be authentic to our disordered partners. They feel this loss as well.

But it is interesting, isn't it, how a dysfunctional person gets stuck in control. If she cannot upset you, she has lost control, and she can't move on from that. A person in growth could work on their own self control and move to authenticity within the arena of self control.

In that arena, we can have emotions. We can be honest, vulnerable, sad, angry. But we play within the rules. The rules are that we stand on our own two feet rather than trying to drive someone else.

[baffledhuman]

It's frightening to her because she has lost control of you.

As upsetting as it must be to have you lose it, at least she knows that she affects you, which is one basic component of caring.

Thing is, controlling yourself does not mean you don't care. But in her world, care involves emotional displays, even negative emotions - possibly primarily negative emotions.

Of course there is another factor to this. Let's be honest. We cannot be authentic to our disordered partners. They feel this loss as well.

But it is interesting, isn't it, how a dysfunctional person gets stuck in control. If she cannot upset you, she has lost control, and she can't move on from that. A person in growth could work on their own self control and move to authenticity within the arena of self control.

In that arena, we can have emotions. We can be honest, vulnerable, sad, angry. But we play within the rules. The rules are that we stand on our own two feet rather than trying to drive someone else.

What are you, square, some kind of sage?

Thank you for your wisdom, again; it rings true to me, loud and clear.

My wife is incredibly smart and (to my detriment, I often think) has a steel-trap of a memory. She can pull out a "file" as I call them, at any time to demonstrate the time I did X, in frighteningly precise detail. Often, she's incredibly angry that I do not remember it, or if I do, I don't necessarily remember particulars.

I grant that this seems to be how my memory works, and thank goodness! I would hate to be burdened constantly by every "bad" thing that ever happened to me. My thinking may be off here, but to me, the fact that my memory is this way suggests to me that when I do have a fairly specific memory, I should consider it reasonably reliable (understanding that all human memory is flawed in its formation).

Interestingly, my wife does seem to recognize some of the dynamics at play, such as your first line above: "It's frightening to her because she has lost control of you." Even more astutely, she occasionally seems to recognize that her recent (truly terrible!) behavior might be seen as a kind of "extinction" reaction to my changed behavior.

Of course, such moments of insight almost immediately are devoured by her need to be right and growing sense of paranoia. Yesterday she said to me something like, "Well, I know you are just tallying up all my recent mistakes — and I have a right to be angry after all you've done to me for the last 25 years! — and sitting there all smug, thinking that the way I'm acting is in reaction to your changed behavior" etc. etc., the point being, "You're still the bad guy so my bad behavior is OK. And you are plotting to (something, something, not sure what)..."

[1footouttadefog]

Sounds like she set you up and gave you rope to hang yourself (metaphorically) with the separation and hall pass.

If she wants to stay married she is obligated to forgive and work on all aspects of intimacy.  She does not have the moral high ground with how she is behaving.

If she chose not to forgive and to divorce that would be honest and understandable.