Still wrestling with NC, years later

[MiniWheat]

I just watched a video with her in it that showed up in my news feed. She's a relatively public person so it happens. I'm shocked at how OLD she looks... I mean, I am shocked at how old I look now... but seeing all the wrinkles on her face, and the shift in how she holds her face... as if she is really tired... and I feel an unexpected burst of wanting to see her again.
I listen to her words though, with a slight tinge of hope - hope of any kind of taking responsibility, any kind of change of narrative. But my uPDm drones on, telling the same tired, worn stories that I grew up with, that I heard back when I was a teenager. She's spinning them now, decades later, as fresh content to a internet audience. I went through this months ago too, when she was interviewed for a podcast on healing. My heart leapt a bit with hope - and I tuned in - and then tuned right out - as I heard the same story, told the same way, as 30 years ago.
Its now been years of NC that has drifted in and out of VLC in the last couple years. There was a half-attempt to find a therapist who might mediate a conversation, that went nowhere. Recently, it was threat to completely cut her off from her grandkids again unless she showed them a shred of attention once a year. It worked and my kids got 1 glorious day in 1 year with her, and then we drifted back to NC, where we sit again.
My threat resulted in a backfire - she showed up on my doorstep angry and upset - but thankfully I wasn't home. When I got the text she was there, I fell apart again inside, shaking uncontrollably, and I knew - I am not ready. So I was secretly relieved when she left the area again, and is now too far away to worry about a surprise visit.
I still go to therapy - a lot - weekly lately. It does help. In this time periods when its been months since I was triggered by her or something about her, I feel like I am strong, and I could put up with her at least VLC. But then I watch this video... and hear the unchanged melody... and I know NC is the way to stay, for now.
The next thing I have been toying with, flirting with, now dancing with - is the concept of forgiveness. But, it's been such a large beast, I haven't really known where to start. The trauma is all over inside me, and so, it is hard to chase down all the roots and forgive, heal, and let go.

[SunnyMeadow]

MiniWheat, I hadn't even thought of how much more difficult it would be to have a public person as a PD parent. How awful for you. I know what you mean about seeing your uPDm as looking OLD. It's really shocks me when I see my mother too.

Your reaction to finding out she showed up on your doorstep is a big sign that you aren't ready. Most times our bodies let us know when something is unsafe and bad for us. It's when I ignore that sign, is when I can spiral into anxiety.

I'm glad you're going to continue NC for now. Very smart of you to stay in therapy and smart how you are aware of how your body is reacting to her. Keep protecting yourself.

[My New Life]

I still wrestle, as well.  I would assume most NC people do.  It feels unnatural to not ever see a parent.  People ask me how my mom is, and my answer is "I don't know."  And how can that not make a person sad?

For me, each time I consider letting her back in my life, I weigh the high level of anxiety I feel at the thought of talking to her, fielding her negative calls, her dropping in, her toxic emails; against the awkward, sad sensation I feel when I think of her from afar.  The anxiety always wins and I continue the NC approach.  In this way, I listen to my body's response and honor it.  I did not honor it for many decades and did some mental and physical damage, in the process.  So I support fully your decision to listen to your anxiety levels.

Going NC with a parent is tricky when you have kids of your own.  The first time I went NC, over 16 years ago, I tried to allow my kids to still visit with her.  Now that my two oldest children are grown, they have communicated that those visits were horrendous and they wished I had not put them in that situation.  They were told I was to blame for everything....That I was mentally ill....That I am going to hell....ad nauseam.  I ended up going back into the relationship that time.  However, this time I have been NC for 3 years and can never go back in.  I still have a teenager at home, but he has requested not being in contact with her, and I honor that.  My counselor has stated that while my children are underage, I should protect them, rather than offer them as a peace offering.  Ouch!  But very true.

I had to come to the understanding that going NC with a parent is not about a relationship that needs reconciliation, but rather a relationship that I need to be protected from, and my underage children need to be protected, as well.  My adult children are free to make their own decisions, concerning their relationship with their grandmother. 

Go in peace and know that you are not alone.

[moglow]

MiniWheat, you sing the song of my people! I've also battled forgiveness - not for her but for myself. In her mind she's done nothing "wrong" and doesn't need forgiveness from me or anyone else. Her deliberate and repeated trampling of me is her due, as the mother. She's simply telling what she sees and how she feels. As the child, my duty was to take it no matter what form she presented. The forgiveness isn't for her - it's what *I* need to do.

Our "relationship" fell completely apart when I began speaking up, telling her how her words were coming across and the harm she was causing. In contradicting and trying to reason with her [she'd have NEVER allowed anyone to speak to her that way!] I was wrong and it went straight septic tank from there forward. But I continued to try. I took it until I couldn't then tried again. And again. I thought there were limits to how far and how low she'd go in her quest to be "right." There aren't.

I can forgive eventually the things she said and the way she said them, the things she did and didn't do, and continue on. But unlike her apparent thought processes, my forgiveness isn't contingent on going back into any form of contact with her. I don't want her approval or what passes for love in her mind. I don't want her in my life. My forgiveness is for ME, so I can put that steamer trunk down and carry on in peace. I believe healing begins there, finding a way to forgive not only them but ourselves.

Mother is a dark and twisted being, one who firmly believes it's her right as The Mother to treat me and my brothers any way she chooses. We, as The Children, are to honor her as instructed in the Bible. I'm choosing to honor her by not inflicting my ungracious presence on her. Yes, that's one of her complaints, that I stopped visiting and rarely called, but I didn't see the point. Why deliver myself to that altar? What possible purpose did my presence serve?

In short [yes, after the long!] - Forgiveness is a continuing process and not just a one and done. Offer it up and let it go. And again when you need to. Accepting them back in for more? Not necessary.

[treesgrowslowly]

Oh wow miniwheat I echo the other sentiments here about how hard it would be to have my estranged family members be public people.

On this topic of forgiveness, I am thinking that forgiveness has been packaged up and sold to us in this culture but the reality is that forgiveness is often misused, maybe by therapists who have been trained to think about forgiveness as THE process by which we remove the road blocks to happiness.

I am not sure that is how forgiveness works. I have been on these boards for a few years now, and behind that desire to forgive our abuser, is a lot of anxiety and anger. A lot of us were told to forgive our abusers, because then the 'family' could go on, and not be interrupted by all of our 'drama'.

I got to places where I just questioned for myself - why do I need to forgive this person? What do I think I'll gain from forgiving them? What is it that I really want and why do I think forgiveness is the way to get that?

I refuse to "forgive" my abusers for the abuse they inflicted. I am of the opinion that this is not how I see forgiveness. We all define it our own way when we get Out of the FOG. Can I learn to understand why they did it, and how broken they are as people? Of course. Do I forgive them for inflicting harm? No. I do not. Will I let them back into my life to inflict more harm? No. I will not.

I don't know the answer here...all I know is that for me, forgiveness has been a tricky thing.

I think that knowing my boundaries and knowing, without a shadow of a doubt that I am going to recover from their narc abuse, whether it takes 1 year or 10, and also knowing that I will never ever be in situation where that level of abuse or being taken advantage of will ever happen to me again, feels more powerful in clearing the path for me. If my abuser died tomorrow and I had to give a eulogy, I really doubt I would say "I forgive them". I would probably just say "they were damaged people who damaged others, including me, and I found a way to heal from the damage they caused. I am sorry they did not find a way to stop abusing people in their lifetime". Maybe that is a form of forgiveness? To be able to accept that they did not find a way to stop abusing people (staying in denial about their past abuse, is a form of abuse in my opinion, so if your parent is still spinning the same story where she is not to blame, then yes, she is still abusing / gaslighting herself and others with her story full of denial).

I've been NC for so long, and I can tell you, the path does get clearer if you stick with it like you are doing with therapy and self-care work. Forgiveness may or may not be necessary for you to clear your path as you heal.

You can feel sorry for someone, and also remember they didn't take good care of you. I kinda think that detachment is part of forgiveness and maybe that is what you are seeking so you can feel like letting go of some of the things you want to let go of.

Trees