Seriously? A Mini Rant

[makingachange]

I have been NC with my parents for 9 months or so...what is up with these people? 

They think that after they have been horrible with me and all the mean things they have said that they can just say, "sorry for anything I said that offended you..."

THEN, at the beginning of December have the nerve to ask if we are doing Christmas together - which I did not respond....

THEN, my husband gets a message yesterday from them - Asking him if they can come over for my child's birthday?

I don't get them...how they can just think that after all of this that I would or he would just say, "Yea, sure come on over!" 

I seriously feel that if I were to say "Yes, come on over...." They would not even act like anything had happened and act like things were just normal.  I don't get it!

Anyone else have this, where their parents completely gloss over what they did and act like things are fine...even though I haven't talked to them in months?!


Sorry for the mini rant on this...just can't believe it, I guess!

[Call Me Cordelia]

Sigh, yes you are not alone. Mine had the audacity to give me a date they would be coming to my house for Christmas after I told them I wanted zero communication with them. They sent gifts and cards as if all was well for months with no response from me.

The only explanation I can fathom is that my feelings really have just never been real for them.

[moglow]

I want to be surprised but no. I went through this over and over with mine, it's like she had an inner reset button and Times Up! all is well. I'm honestly wondering if she didn't dissociate during/after some of her performances because she'd go full on confusion about why i'm not just thrilled to talk/be talked at by her. Even a month or so ago she rampaged one day [after six month's silence], hung up on me then next day send a random video of her great granddaughter. That was a double whammy considering she's never even mentioned the child to me! I'm all for being replaced but that flip to happy granny from her rant of the day before was a bit staggering.

I guess you could be glad they asked, showed some interest, but seriously. You know when it's okay? When you invite them. Until then, no. And going through your husband as if that's done without you, also not okay.

[Hilltop]

makingachange, yes I can so relate.  My parents do not rant or rage however they will insult or be mocking toward me.  They at times would exclude me or directly insult me.  Afterward I was told I was difficult if I had any emotions around that.  I was told I was too sensitive if I spoke up.  I was told to my face that they found me difficult. They would expect things to continue on as if nothing had happened at all.  It is baffling, isn't it.  They wanted to insult me and wanted me to just put up with it quietly. 

For me it led to a lot of introspection, looking at my own behaviours, was I difficult, was I wrong. I spent many years doing this.  I spent many years speaking up, trying to fix things, then ignoring it thinking it would go away, then giving us more space until I realised that nothing worked.  Eventually I realised that I didn't insult them or put them down.  If they found me difficult because I was stilted around them or on edge well what can I say, I am like that around people who put me down and mock me.  Eventually I saw the truth that when they told me to my face they found me difficult, they meant it.  Ok, it took me a while but I finally got it.

In the past two years, I haven't seen them once, no phone calls and I have sent only a handful of texts and yet they still act like nothing is wrong.  They haven't said a thing.  Every now and then they will throw out a 'we should get together some time'.  I simply ignore it now.  They are simply unable to communicate on any meaningful level.  They haven't told me if they are unhappy with this type of relationship, they haven't responded so I take it that they are fine with this level of communication which is extremely telling to me.  I  mean we essentially have no relationship and they appear fine with that.  If they have not spoken of any issues then I can only take that, as they are happy with no relationship between us or a very limited one.  I guess to me I feel that I have stepped back in kindness, I am no longer forcing them to be around someone they find difficult, I accept this is how they see me.  I don't see myself that way but I accept this is their viewpoint of me.

If I was to bring up anything with them about how I feel they would throw it back on me.  I dare say they believe these difficulties are another sign of me being difficult.  However for the first time in my life I am letting them handle the relationship, I have removed myself, I am not trying to fix anything.  I reach out very rarely when I want to but I leave the rest with them.  It's time for them to do some self reflection and if they can't do that then so be it. I would assume that at some point they would be able to see their own behaviour and how this impacts others but maybe they are incapable of that or maybe they don't care.  Who knows. 

I guess this long vent is to simply say that yes I have lived through a relationship where people are not nice and then expect you to simply put up with it with no consequences.   It took me a long time to realise that my mother knew not to talk to her friends like that but felt ok doing that to me in private.  I removed myself as they simply never stopped their behaviours.  I removed myself because it isn't good enough and I don't want that type of relationship in my life.  I have no desire to reach out to them any more than I am because I cannot trust they won't slip in an insult or be mocking and contemptuous toward me.  I  have never found a way to respond that feels ok whether speaking up which just seems to give them supply or ignoring it which leaves me feeling angry.  So in response, I now walk away from people that are happy to treat me poorly and don't care if I am upset by that.  I don't need people like that in my life.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  It is very confusing and hurtful.  I mean as you say, you walk away from them for months and they act like nothing is wrong, it's crazy making.  To them it's a game and I was the most happy when I stopped playing.  See them when you want to but if you are not up to it, then don't.  It is really hard to believe because it's simply not normal.  It's not normal to hurt those close to us and it's not normal to act like you haven't done something hurtful.  I think it's telling when you look at other friendships and there is none of this behaviour because it isn't hard to be with someone and not insult them.  They gloss over it so they are not held accountable.

[bee well]

Hi makingachange,

Your post also resonates with me.

What you have described is my FOO's habitual way of operating. That and outright rug sweeping, and pretending things never happened.

This quote from your post stands out: "sorry for anything I said that offended you..." The suggestion is that you were offended, not that there was anything said that should be clarified or that any apology could be in order.

My experience has been that it doesn't matter how obvious the issue is, the apology, or an effort to understand never comes, or there is at most a non-apology, and one is expected to "move on," or "just get over it," no questions asked.

What Hilltop wrote is especially pertinent:

"If I was to bring up anything with them about how I feel they would throw it back on me.  I dare say they believe these difficulties are another sign of me being difficult.  However for the first time in my life I am letting them handle the relationship, I have removed myself, I am not trying to fix anything.  I reach out very rarely when I want to but I leave the rest with them.  It's time for them to do some self reflection and if they can't do that then so be it. I would assume that at some point they would be able to see their own behaviour and how this impacts others but maybe they are incapable of that or maybe they don't care.  Who knows."

Personally, (before I too realized I can't change anyone but me) I would twist my self in knots hoping I would be understood by people who had no intention or desire of opening up, ("Feelings" are considered a weakness.) For years I wondered what I was doing wrong that they would not even acknowledge my point of view. I was hoping in vain for sincere empathy that they did not have to give. 

I think Call Me Cordelia expresses the idea very well:

"The only explanation I can fathom is that my feelings really have just never been real for them."

There are people who only view their own feelings as real. No one else truly exists but them and those they deem useful or worthy of attention at the moment. It has taken a while for me to wrap my head around that, but I believe it's true.

Realizing that has been one of the most important parts of the ongoing healing process. Still, at times I have to correct/stop that old FOO systems voice that creeps in that says "All families are like this, Bee...Maybe it's you..."

I know it is obviously not true that all families are disordered and dysfunctional, but as many of us know, that's the logic "they" often use to justify the negative behaviour, and get truthtellers in line. Unfortunately the reality is too many families are "like this," but thankfully not all, and "we" are not obligated to continue in their unhealthy footsteps.

It's encouraging to see so many people are waking up and practicing self preservation, and working towards creating healthier relational styles.

Sorry, however, to see too many people continue to go through what is described here.

Glad places like this forum exist so people don't have to go it alone.

[makingachange]

Sigh, yes you are not alone. Mine had the audacity to give me a date they would be coming to my house for Christmas after I told them I wanted zero communication with them. They sent gifts and cards as if all was well for months with no response from me.

The only explanation I can fathom is that my feelings really have just never been real for them.

Oh my gosh!  Wow!  Mine have threatened that before, but honestly I think they are scared to do that, because they fear my neighbors would see them or that I would get them in trouble for harassment?

If you don't mind me asking, what did you do with the gifts?  I am slightly fearful that will try to send my child a birthday card...I'm debating whether or not I should just send it back to them and mark "return to sender"....

Yes, I completely agree with you about the feelings...it feels like they are always disregarded and never taken seriously.

[makingachange]

I want to be surprised but no. I went through this over and over with mine, it's like she had an inner reset button and Times Up! all is well. I'm honestly wondering if she didn't dissociate during/after some of her performances because she'd go full on confusion about why i'm not just thrilled to talk/be talked at by her. Even a month or so ago she rampaged one day [after six month's silence], hung up on me then next day send a random video of her great granddaughter. That was a double whammy considering she's never even mentioned the child to me! I'm all for being replaced but that flip to happy granny from her rant of the day before was a bit staggering.

I guess you could be glad they asked, showed some interest, but seriously. You know when it's okay? When you invite them. Until then, no. And going through your husband as if that's done without you, also not okay.

Hi! 

I guess you are right I should be happy that they just asked....I have not talked/responded to them in months....and neither has my husband.  I guess to me it is frustrating that they disregard our feelings.

YES, I think it is also interesting that they flip the switch from this angry person/into this loving type (as a show to others).

I've had random things sent to me before as well...and I'm always left clueless!

I feel also upset to a certain degree that they did go through my husband like I don't count...or that maybe they think they will twist his arm to do what they want...I don't know. 

I hope you are doing well....thank you for your insight on this!!

[makingachange]

makingachange, yes I can so relate.  My parents do not rant or rage however they will insult or be mocking toward me.  They at times would exclude me or directly insult me.  Afterward I was told I was difficult if I had any emotions around that.  I was told I was too sensitive if I spoke up.  I was told to my face that they found me difficult. They would expect things to continue on as if nothing had happened at all.  It is baffling, isn't it.  They wanted to insult me and wanted me to just put up with it quietly. 

For me it led to a lot of introspection, looking at my own behaviours, was I difficult, was I wrong. I spent many years doing this.  I spent many years speaking up, trying to fix things, then ignoring it thinking it would go away, then giving us more space until I realised that nothing worked.  Eventually I realised that I didn't insult them or put them down.  If they found me difficult because I was stilted around them or on edge well what can I say, I am like that around people who put me down and mock me.  Eventually I saw the truth that when they told me to my face they found me difficult, they meant it.  Ok, it took me a while but I finally got it.

In the past two years, I haven't seen them once, no phone calls and I have sent only a handful of texts and yet they still act like nothing is wrong.  They haven't said a thing.  Every now and then they will throw out a 'we should get together some time'.  I simply ignore it now.  They are simply unable to communicate on any meaningful level.  They haven't told me if they are unhappy with this type of relationship, they haven't responded so I take it that they are fine with this level of communication which is extremely telling to me.  I  mean we essentially have no relationship and they appear fine with that.  If they have not spoken of any issues then I can only take that, as they are happy with no relationship between us or a very limited one.  I guess to me I feel that I have stepped back in kindness, I am no longer forcing them to be around someone they find difficult, I accept this is how they see me.  I don't see myself that way but I accept this is their viewpoint of me.

If I was to bring up anything with them about how I feel they would throw it back on me.  I dare say they believe these difficulties are another sign of me being difficult.  However for the first time in my life I am letting them handle the relationship, I have removed myself, I am not trying to fix anything.  I reach out very rarely when I want to but I leave the rest with them.  It's time for them to do some self reflection and if they can't do that then so be it. I would assume that at some point they would be able to see their own behaviour and how this impacts others but maybe they are incapable of that or maybe they don't care.  Who knows. 

I guess this long vent is to simply say that yes I have lived through a relationship where people are not nice and then expect you to simply put up with it with no consequences.   It took me a long time to realise that my mother knew not to talk to her friends like that but felt ok doing that to me in private.  I removed myself as they simply never stopped their behaviours.  I removed myself because it isn't good enough and I don't want that type of relationship in my life.  I have no desire to reach out to them any more than I am because I cannot trust they won't slip in an insult or be mocking and contemptuous toward me.  I  have never found a way to respond that feels ok whether speaking up which just seems to give them supply or ignoring it which leaves me feeling angry.  So in response, I now walk away from people that are happy to treat me poorly and don't care if I am upset by that.  I don't need people like that in my life.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  It is very confusing and hurtful.  I mean as you say, you walk away from them for months and they act like nothing is wrong, it's crazy making.  To them it's a game and I was the most happy when I stopped playing.  See them when you want to but if you are not up to it, then don't.  It is really hard to believe because it's simply not normal.  It's not normal to hurt those close to us and it's not normal to act like you haven't done something hurtful.  I think it's telling when you look at other friendships and there is none of this behaviour because it isn't hard to be with someone and not insult them.  They gloss over it so they are not held accountable.

I'm so sorry that you have been going through this!  I can relate to what you are saying how they make you feel like you are the "sensitive" kind...and make you feel bad for having any emotions to how they have treated us....

I think at the end of the day, you can only handle so much of this, whether it be making you feel bad for not reacting or being how they want us to be...or them aggressively attacking....

I guess I have realized that I can't keep doing the same things with them...it really isn't fair to me or my life...and I can't keep pretending that it doesn't hurt. 

I've stopped playing the game, but it feels like they are the only ones still playing...and they keep on playing, which makes no sense to me.

I hope you are doing well...and I truly want to thank you for your insight on all of this!  Sending you big hugs!  Stay strong!

[makingachange]

Hi makingachange,

Your post also resonates with me.

What you have described is my FOO's habitual way of operating. That and outright rug sweeping, and pretending things never happened.

This quote from your post stands out: "sorry for anything I said that offended you..." The suggestion is that you were offended, not that there was anything said that should be clarified or that any apology could be in order.

My experience has been that it doesn't matter how obvious the issue is, the apology, or an effort to understand never comes, or there is at most a non-apology, and one is expected to "move on," or "just get over it," no questions asked.

What Hilltop wrote is especially pertinent:

"If I was to bring up anything with them about how I feel they would throw it back on me.  I dare say they believe these difficulties are another sign of me being difficult.  However for the first time in my life I am letting them handle the relationship, I have removed myself, I am not trying to fix anything.  I reach out very rarely when I want to but I leave the rest with them.  It's time for them to do some self reflection and if they can't do that then so be it. I would assume that at some point they would be able to see their own behaviour and how this impacts others but maybe they are incapable of that or maybe they don't care.  Who knows."

Personally, (before I too realized I can't change anyone but me) I would twist my self in knots hoping I would be understood by people who had no intention or desire of opening up, ("Feelings" are considered a weakness.) For years I wondered what I was doing wrong that they would not even acknowledge my point of view. I was hoping in vain for sincere empathy that they did not have to give. 

I think Call Me Cordelia expresses the idea very well:

"The only explanation I can fathom is that my feelings really have just never been real for them."

There are people who only view their own feelings as real. No one else truly exists but them and those they deem useful or worthy of attention at the moment. It has taken a while for me to wrap my head around that, but I believe it's true.

Realizing that has been one of the most important parts of the ongoing healing process. Still, at times I have to correct/stop that old FOO systems voice that creeps in that says "All families are like this, Bee...Maybe it's you..."

I know it is obviously not true that all families are disordered and dysfunctional, but as many of us know, that's the logic "they" often use to justify the negative behaviour, and get truthtellers in line. Unfortunately the reality is too many families are "like this," but thankfully not all, and "we" are not obligated to continue in their unhealthy footsteps.

It's encouraging to see so many people are waking up and practicing self preservation, and working towards creating healthier relational styles.

Sorry, however, to see too many people continue to go through what is described here.

Glad places like this forum exist so people don't have to go it alone.

Hi!

Yes, I completely agree with you on so much of your post!  I am incredibly thankful for this forum and all the wonderful people here to share stories, encouragement, and support.

I agree with you that it takes time to change that voice that creeps in...I am still very much working on that...it has been a process, but I will keep pushing through.

I think personally for me, I am at a point where I too see that I can't change anyone....but it is a hard thought/and thing to take...realizing that you can't help anyone change/who doesn't want to change.

I have been able to let go of caring so much about what people think...but again, still a work in progress...

I know it is going to take time to unravel all of this and find the inner peace I want...but I have to keep on going...

Thank you so much for your insight on this...and I hope you are doing well and having a good day! 

[LemonLime]

Hi MakingAChange,
I can relate.  Not my parents, but my uPD sib does this.  Rages and rants and condescends to me, insulting my parenting and calling me names.  Then acts like I'm petty because I am stand-offish after.
I'm lucky because although my parents are enablers, they have witnessed her rages (and also been the subject of them).  So they "get it" why I won't be anything but cordial to sib.
Still, sib very likely frames me as "the problem" in our relationship.  After all, LemonLime , that rage happened so loooooong ago....can't you just get over it? Why are you still punishing me for being honest, LemonLime?

Once in a letter I sent her I let her know that I don't want to be friends with someone who is contemptuous of me.  And that I wouldn't expect her to want to be friends with someone for whom she felt contempt.   I guess that left her speechless, because I never heard back.
LOL.  But seriously, I am going to continue to call her on her sh#t.   If she is going to rage at me,  I am going to calmly assert that she should be kind to herself and not hang around with someone who seems to make her so angry.  Isn't that logical?
What in the world can they say to THAT without making themselves look ridiculous?

My sib is very smart and savvy, and I don't think she expected me to come up with that bit of logic.  It seems to have flummoxed her.  Yay!

Good luck.   For me, this type of gaslighting (and my T assured me that pretending something didn't happen is indeed gaslighting) is one of the more crazy-making behaviors of my sib.   It makes me question myself over and over.   I have probably spent a thousand therapy dollars getting that particular behavior handled. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Sigh, yes you are not alone. Mine had the audacity to give me a date they would be coming to my house for Christmas after I told them I wanted zero communication with them. They sent gifts and cards as if all was well for months with no response from me.

The only explanation I can fathom is that my feelings really have just never been real for them.

Oh my gosh!  Wow!  Mine have threatened that before, but honestly I think they are scared to do that, because they fear my neighbors would see them or that I would get them in trouble for harassment?

If you don't mind me asking, what did you do with the gifts?  I am slightly fearful that will try to send my child a birthday card...I'm debating whether or not I should just send it back to them and mark "return to sender"....

Yes, I completely agree with you about the feelings...it feels like they are always disregarded and never taken seriously.

I did RTS the first time it happened, and then ignored them after that. I had no interest in giving them the satisfaction of even getting a response by overtly refusing over and over again.

I have children, too, and I consider my DH and myself the gatekeepers for them. I figure good parents do not promote contact with untrustworthy people. So I trashed cards to my kids with a perfectly clear conscience. They sent so many... for every holiday under the sun. My kids did not miss the cards.

[Liketheducks]

I think it is totally normal for you to feel this way.....AND totally normal for them to rug sweep and hope you'll buy it.    I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure Dad was an overt narc.   He's calmed down a bunch.    And, I'm pretty sure mom was/is covert.    We text every once in a blue moon.   Mom scoops up the flying monkeys and we will or won't get together over the holidays.  Whatever.   I either make new memories with my FOC...and am unavailable.   OR, I make the best of it to support my nieces and let them know that I'm here for them.   
I HATE fake apologies.   I'm sorry you felt bad, isn't the same as....I'm really sorry....I f-ed up....What can I do to make amends?
It is completely understandable for you to be upset.     You're still processing chipping away at the fog.  I'd say it takes 2-5 years to really get your feet back under you as an individual....without being manipulated.    Take your time and enjoy some peace.    I needed that space to see what was real and what I was being manipulated to believe to suit my parents needs.

To play devils advocate for a moment....what unNPD is going to actually acknowledge that they've done anything wrong.  I'm not excusing abusive behavior.    I have to acknowledge that my parents just don't know.   They're doing the best they can with what they have....which wasn't much.     Kudos to you for breaking a cycle.

The hard part is that I know I have to stop the triggers they cause that shift me back into 10 year old abused child me, or at least manage them enough to enforce a boundary or take care of myself.   I have no power there, at 10.   And, by golly, I'm SO much happier and safer in my skin at 53....saying NO like it's a complete sentence.   

It is ok to be angry that they don't get it.   Take space for yourself.    You're going to be ok.   

[donutmoonpanda]

How they went to your spouse to ask if they could come over for the birthday! Just stepped right around you! It's so obvious they know what they're doing. They think you'll just get over it one day and then they can go back to business as usual.

It seems like my mom could ignore or deny anything if I let her. She's just waiting to get her foot back in the door because all she cares about is us looking like a happy family. She wants other people to see her as a normal mother, with a healthy relationship with her daughter, instead of a terrible mother who has no relationship with her kids because she was so absolutely abysmal as a parent. As long as she never has to face anything she's ever done, take no responsibility for all the ways she has hurt or betrayed me. It would be easier to get a magnet to stick to a humpback whale than to get anything to stick to her.

It's denial and gaslighting. It feels like they live in a separate reality from the rest of us. It really is crazy-making.

[Mintstripes]

" Anyone else have this, where their parents completely gloss over what they did and act like things are fine...even though I haven't talked to them in months?!"

Oh my god. I could have written this. My parents were ALWAYS like this growing up and beyond.

I just made a post here about how my mother immediately fell back into old patterns after I was NC for 5 1/2 YEARS.

People like this amaze me. They will NEVER learn. As another wise poster said, they want to keep playing the game even though we are no longer playing. They want to gaslight us and rugsweep everything into oblivion, pretend everything is fine and dandy, usually so they can have access to "their" grandchildren. Big fat old nope from me.

Sometimes I truly can't believe that people can live to their 70's+ and still refuse to evolve/acknowledge the consequences of their own behavior.

[moglow]

Sometimes I truly can't believe that people can live to their 70's+ and still refuse to evolve/acknowledge the consequences of their own behavior.

Mine's mid 80s, still not an ounce of remorse, responsibility or reasoning with her. Everything is everyone else's fault, as if she's forever stuck at four years old. 

[Mintstripes]

Sometimes I truly can't believe that people can live to their 70's+ and still refuse to evolve/acknowledge the consequences of their own behavior.

Mine's mid 80s, still not an ounce of remorse, responsibility or reasoning with her. Everything is everyone else's fault, as if she's forever stuck at four years old. 

Of course  Forever stunted. Like I said in my post, my enabler mother will die like this. Not to be morbid but even if unPDf passes away before her, there's no salvaging a healthy relationship (there never was one to
begin with. What's more, she would deny everything to an even greater extent. Don't speak ill of the dead and all 

[nanotech]

Yes I've been there with this.  I note what's been said about them not wanting any sort of meaningful relationship? That's my Ndad and siblings/ nieces / nephew.
Not interested, now I've stopped overfunctioning. No is indeed a full sentence, not one they want to hear.

My updNdad- I'm posting separately on his latest antics- they relate to this thread!
The hardest part is when we think they may have changed - then realise they never will and start accepting that-  but they still play the game of pretence. So after months of ignoring/ scapegoating, they think it's fine to suddenly floor you with an overbearing demand or three.
In the past, I would flush with joy that I'd even been remembered, and bend over backwards to please. I'd do anything they said and take any crumbs they'd throw in the hope that they'd...... that they'd like and approve of me, I guess.
Once I'd fulfilled my use, I'd be silent treated/ scapegoated once more. It was confusing and hurtful.

Happily I no longer get that rush to please, and my dad has realised that on some level. So he targets my husband, whose compassion knows no bounds. This used to work. Hubby has a huge sense of duty toward older family members. He didn't grow up in a dysfunctional household. In the past they've used this compassion of his, to twist my arm.
It took a huge family crisis, and the horrific  paternal narcissistic rage that triggered, to make him finally see it clearly. I can't blame him, when I didn't even see it until  I was in my fifties. Here's to getting Out of the FOG!

[footprint33]

An MO of the NPD parent is to act like nothing happened and they don't understand why the child is upset. It's classic gaslighting.

[nanotech]

BPDmum  was in favour of slamming the phone down....  then ringing a few days later just as if nothing had happened. It wouldn't be spoken of, then the cycle would begin all over again.
Nsis' updated version would be suddenly blocking me on social media, mid conversation. I always made the first move to reconnect, and then she would be faux apologetic. I fooled myself that I was 'being the bigger person.' That's a pothole.
I'm an easy going type, but i do have my own opinions, and I was voicing them. Naughty naughty. I was expected  to be a doormat. That's when the contact would go, as a punishment.
My mum was very adept at rewriting history, but that's a huge long story.

[Mintstripes]

An MO of the NPD parent is to act like nothing happened and they don't understand why the child is upset. It's classic gaslighting.

Well said, footprint. Then they tell anyone who will listen "We have no idea why Child won't talk to us!"