Back Again....Divorce? Am I wrong?

[Falsebalance]

 

I came here 11 years ago and learned about my FOO and this site gave me the courage to put boundaries in place....and in so doing, my FOO cut me out of their lives. 

This made my life immensely better.

I was married around this time. I thought everything was going to be amazing now...

As I grew - I couldn't understand why my husband seemed to be stagnant. I chalked it up to male and female differences. But over the years he destroyed my passions one by one by shrugging and saying he wasn't into any of it....but that I could do it by myself. His always stayed the same. Watching Football.

In fact- I feel as if I am now in my x0s and he remained as I met him in our early x0s.

I was terrified of outgrowing him so even stunted my own growth a loooong while.

The more and more I read I don't want to admit this....but he fits the bill or an UNPD.

His FOO is horrible horrible. I wouldn't want to have suffered his life either. No love. Total UNPDs both parents and even extended. It was a disaster breaking free from their FOG as well. I used a site called DWIL nation and got out by the skin of my teeth when they started their plan to get rid of me so they could get my infant. Every single person in his foo is divorced and if you aint blood you aint tribe. Post partum thanks to them was a horrible time in my life...I literally had to tie my baby to my chest with wraps to keep them from snatching him from me and trying to sabotage me nursing. Thank the Lord they lived 8 hours away...they constantly put the baby in harms way. I was ferocious in protecting my son.  And I finally told my husband I was taking a break from his family and baby was not the shiny object for them to fight over. Baby and i were off limits...and then suggested he do the same when he felt I was being unfair. So he informed them I was taking a break and like I told him they would they went nuclear on me...suggesting i was mentally unfit. Then he was so irritated I was no longer his meat shield that he asked for 2 weeks to think without them contacting him and they did the same thing to him.  They devalued him and said a few more choice words about me. They trashed us in his home town and devalued and discarded him. 

I totally did the right thing. All he talks about now is how disgusting they are and how what they did to HIM was wrong and he will never let them around our children. He hasn't ever acknowledged the mistreatment I handled and how he kept asking me to take it. He has never defended my honor or corrected the things they said about me.

He spies on them through social media. I have been guilty of looking at my foos too to see who passes away...but his is like look at these idiots.... I'm not a Saint but I am only looking to remind myself why I won't go back. He seems to do it so he can exact his revenge. And so I think this has bred this desire to be extremely wealthy. (It ain't happening).

Fast forward 5 years and I now have three children.

I feel as if I've suddenly woken up from a coma.

Here is the damage as I awake:

I have two toddlers and a child.

It took three births of zero support. First his Foo ruined everything. 2nd he just bounced with the oldest and said I could handle it all myself. Then the third and the same cycle ensued he bounced with eldest and left me alone in bed to tend to 2 year old and infant.
Didn't clean only "tidy" and said I'm too demanding.

When I have needs - things fall apart. So before my postpartum 6 weeks were up with the third he told me he was divorcing me mentally and spiritually but was going to stay so he didn't miss out on the kids and I would have to deal with it.

I suffer through cycles of silent treatment and then beg him to stop and be kind again.

Three babies with zero help and support has made me too tired to engage in the drama. So his behavior has escalated.

He takes off for days now weeks at a time and gives me the ST. I haven't reacted much now...

I'm too tired to even write much more.

So trying to wrap this up...

He said again he wants a divorce. I had began writing in my calendar when I was getting ST and then I saw in two months a pattern. He gives ST - I beg for him to love me and come home and pleeeeaaase see the babies. He says why would I love him or want him back etc. Etc. Then once he is in the door he agrees to TRY to stop "hitting me with words since he can't hit me" and raging at me. Acknowledged he wouldn't want his daughter treated this way and "it sucks but this is what I do." Then he says I'm not perfect and tells me things I need to work on and I have always done it and then the goal posts move. Every single vacation he has caused a major fight. I have relatively NO good memories of us together. There was always some shadow over everything.

And then he will sweep us all up on a spontaneous trip to the zoo or new restaurant or if he really blew it- an out of town getaway. Suddenly he has money to spend....but fixing things around the house he drags his feet. I have become the handy man.

This last time I became aware of the cycle. I went on the trip this time knowing it for what it was (to distract me and make me forget the hellish two weeks of ST prior)

Only this time I didn't play into it so he threw two massive fits while on the trip and I stayed MC and kept the drama down for the kids. So then as I diffused and we got 10 minutes from home....he exploded and swore at me in front of the children (a big no button) I just let him rage and kept the kids calm.

I told them it is a tantrum and not to worry mommy was okay and they were ok. They were crying as he left us all in the car after swearing at me and they sometimes try to right the wrong by following him and yelling at him to be nice to mommy which only enrages UNPDhusband.

I diffused it SO well that I bought myself 2 more weeks of ST. And then he talked to me a few days testing the water and realized I was giving him his fantasy that everything could sweep under the rug. (I just am too worn down to engage and trying to see how I've been part of the madness. I'm trying not to label him but I promise I'm getting somewhere to ask questions.)

So next he escalates by telling me since I have refused bedroom duty for the first time ever just before our trip he has had time to reflect and realized he checked out on me 8 years ago.

This suddenly is what snapped me awake. He did. If he was ever there.
I asked how on earth he could let me have his children and he said he only just realized this. (Over a decade of years together)

This explains everything to me perfectly why I have been feeling insane and alone and like I just have this frenemy judging my every move and watching me struggle and only saying "gee that sucks for you sorry I'm not more of a help but I had a bad childhood so I can't help."

I have been SO beaten down I thought perhaps I had mild autism. Even told some friends. They all said not a chance... I've just been kicked around my whole life and it left some scars and social difficulties.

He brags at work (work is the other woman. It is his stage). That he doesn't have to lift a finger at home and whines to me that coworkers all say he doesn't deserve me and I'm way out of his league and that they are always shocked to see that I am "so attractive and that I'm not a blonde."

So anyway....

I suggested some time apart in light of his checked out revelation. Be that a week or months or a year. I said we could sell the house and get apartments and set a time to come back and whatever equity is left we can use on a down-payment for a new home if we can work it out if he can see himself checking back in.

To this he says nope. I'm done. I want out permanently.

Well anyone I have ever been brave enough to tell the tip of this ice berg to has said the exact same thing: he wants out but he is going to make you do it and you be the bad guy.

So I said I don't like sleeping in the same room if he is done and wants a divorce. So last week he said great I'll sleep in the other room.

And he has. And said he would be moving out on a certain day. And I bawled and sobbed when he wasn't home and I have set up a meeting with an attorney to find out my options (laughably) thinking he may be serving me papers.

The day came and he said he was running errands. I calmly asked if he was getting a place. He said had to find one first.
(Very hot market but not impossible)...
Then he proceeded to be out all hours of the nights and leaving and coming back REEKING of the casino. He knows I don't approve so probably hoping for a confrontation. I resited any urge. I let him do whatever he was going to do and come and go. The kids were surprisingly chill. It hurt me even more realizing how this is so normal to them.

So he has been living the bachelor life (would highly doubt he is cheating...that would hurt his image of himself.)

Well tonight he finally is home and the children ADORE him and it has hit me they chase after his affection the same way I do. He has chalked this up to his personality being he likes to be chased after.

Tonight after a whole week of this punishment and me planning divorce and doing divorce math and research and crying knowing I will have to have nights without my babies he spent a little time with the kids today for the first time and then tells the children goodnight as he heads for his room.... (does NOTHING TO HELP) AND *PATS* my head like a puppy and says "and I love you too"

I was stunned and tried to maintain MC. I didn't respond.

So. He has NO idea I am meeting with an attorney or that I have developed a support network in the last two weeks or how done with a capital D I am.

I'm too tired. I'm losing weight and wasting away. This is the exact life I said I wouldn't give to my children.

I've modeled for them to chase after his inconsistent affections. The older two are anxious and reserved. The baby is bubbly and sooo happy and it hit me - my other two I was so happy and saying "look at the baby!" And he didn't want to share that joy with me. It made me very quiet and reserved and the babies are like a mirror! But with this baby my other two enjoy him with me and husband is gone most of the time or we're out pretending to be a happy family at the zoo...and it has made this child blossom in a way the other two didn't and haven't in many ways.

So....am I absolutely cruel? I feel divorce is 100 percent necessary to protect the children from more drama.

They can see him any time he actually wants the responsibility...he won't physically hurt them. He'll want to swoop in for fun and not the hard stuff but if I don't do something I feel my health will fail me and I won't be able to help them. I have worked from home the last 10 years full time.

I had covid back to back and was dealing with three sick babies on top of my illness and he escaped to work. I finally had to beg him to take a day early before his vacation because I couldn't make it another day.

I couldn't get healthy.

He did this like I owed him for it like he was amazing after I had to beg him. I slept nearly two days straight aside from nursing the baby.
He claimed he didn't know what to do with babies  so the deal was I handled everything until they are 2.

I feel like an idiot mostly because of how much I hurt knowing the pain HE is about to suffer in all of this. HIS embarrassment. I feel guilty and mean when I imagine his COMPLETE SHOCK when I take the next step...be that separate or divorce.

For the first time ever I am 1 step ahead of his game and I didn't even realize it was a game until now and that makes ME feel greasy.

Please speak any logic to me!

I am writing this to hold myself accountable to keep practicing radical acceptance.


Either I will come out of this divorced and VERY WRONG about him and I will work however hard to fix it all

Or I will move forward and this is going to be an extremely nasty split once he realizes I have gotten the nerve to get free...and I will find myself again and give these wonderful babies a happy healthy tidy home and a bubbly mother who can give them attention they deserve.

I am also worried he will discard me and use our eldest for his new source of supply.

He will hate losing the maid and the bedroom perk....but he'll gladly use my eldest.

It's as if he is living every day to prove to his evil parents that he is a good man and father....and in so doing he has poked too many holes in the bottom of this ship. We're sinking fast. I have to get the kids to some solid ground even if it is divorce island.

I am praying I can go about divorce so calmly and so swiftly that I can get him to agree to it all while he is in complete shock and before he can be thinking how he can get the upper hand.

I pray he will allow me to continue to homeschool. His schedule IS SO Wild (another tool to control me and keep everything unpredictable as he loves it and said a 9 to 5 would kill him) I hope I can point out he better let me or he'll have to get a more regimented schedule.

[escapingman]

You are ABSOLUTELY right to divorce him. It looks like he has been taking you for a ride for a long time. So much you are writing is so similar to my own story with my STBX uNPDw. When I met her I was basically moved back from an adult in my twenties to a teenager as all decisions were to be made by her hight narcissist parents. I didn't see it then, but my own parents never involved themselves in my daily life and in the beginning I found it quite exciting how much they "cared". But now almost 20 years later, I have not been able to grow 20 years and feel like I am in a state where I am "younger" than I was when I met my STBX.

I got to the stage where I could not tolerate her abuse anymore, and I know if I stay with her I wont live for another 5 years. I feel sad, I feel guilty, but I have no choice - reading your story I don't think you have a choice either. I have not had any intimacy for years with my STBX, she doesn't do intimacy, I have realised I am only used for supporting her lifestyle and give her a home she can brag about.

Proceed with the divorce, just do it, it will be a hard time, but in the end you will get your life back. I am 5 months down the line since telling my STBX I want a divorce, it has been a roller coaster, but for every day I feel better. We are still living in the same house, but I can't wait for having my own home. The drama she is creating is worthy of an Oscar, but I don't want to be her supporting act anymore.

Good luck!

[Falsebalance]

Escapingman,

Thank you for your response.

I'm sorry to hear you're going through it as well. I wonder if it is harder to be believed sometimes as the man. My mother was the abuser in my childhood home. I think my father was terrified of her and didn't want to lose us when we were little so he stayed. Eventually he became a shell of himself and she used triangulation enough to destroy our relationship and he grew bitter. She keeps him just sick enough that he doesn't die so he can keep working to support her. I lost respect for him. 

I realize divorce can drag out and you wind up being stuck in the same house a while. I wonder how you've survived that!?

I'm glad you're getting out and staying strong. I know what the Oscar worthy performances are like. One edge you may have is the male logic. I'll try to borrow some for now

I am to the point where when I wake up to use the bathroom or I'm out in the house and he is lurking somewhere, I am flooded with fear. I shake constantly. Only because I know he doesn't know what is coming. I think he has turned up the volume so high thinking this silent treatment is finally working but he is excited and confused by my new MC GR response. (But he perceives it killing me so he is engaged and happy with that).

I'm not sure it is rational to be so suddenly fearful for my safety - it is likely just more of this new reality where I am aware he uses me to serve his ego, not to love me.

We haven't had true intimacy. Maybe two or three times in almost 15 years. I can tell you the day each child was conceived. And after my third baby I have been avoiding him because I was afraid to fall pregnant again too soon as I am feeling worn out.

I think children for me were to build our family, our future, and I was going to have as many as my body would allow...but I think they are a status symbol and it serves his ego to brag about how "skinny and hot" I am three kids in and that I want more.

It feels like a rapid decline in my age since I had my second. I understand feeling younger.  I have been terrified to leave the house without his help and wouldn't go anywhere until his days off aside from driving to pick up groceries.

But I bought a new back pack and picked myself up and I've been venturing out and it feels amazing to remember I am a capable adult!

I'm not sure he does this consciously which is what makes me feel horrible for what I'm about to do (divorce)... but having babies with little to no support was taxing on me mentally and it feels like he used this edge to finally feel better than me. I felt insecure as each time my body changed and it takes about a year to two years to bounce back and once I did I fell pregnant again and the weight climbed back up. (my friends all live states away and I hid most of his treatment from everyone trying to protect his honor. The moment I opened up to my friends they are all swarming to emotionally support me....which that makes me feel guilty as my parents worked a number on me and trained me not to tell on them).

I see the insecure child in him and I ache for that boy....but he should have gotten help and chosen to be honest and upright.

So many little signs. He accused me of things I now see are HIM. He said I'm extremely competitive and always trying to outdo him.  I found that to be so odd. Also, anything I'm better than him at he doesn't want to do. He admits this. I wanted a ping pong table and he said no because I'm better than him so what is the point? (which aside from watching football it has been nearly everything.) Same with a sport I played in college and board games any skill is involved in.

I'm scared of his rage when he finds out I'm leaving. I'm scared of him crying and using drama to try to suck me back in... I'm scared because I realize after all these years he knows me pretty well and I don't have a clue who I married. I shared and shared and shared thinking it would make him one day open up. He claimed he is just shallow and boring and told me not to look into it.

I'm preparing myself for really scary days and really emotionally draining days when he begs me to stop this or he wants to rid me from the earth. Who knows?

He created this world and climate. I only ever wanted to love him.  He claims I used him to escape my Foo and that I settled for him. Which I found to be extremely insulting and untrue. If I'm honest he was always a jerk to me and unstable but I just fell for him hard. I actually had to choose between he and my parents fairly quickly as they never approved of anyone and they saw how serious I was about him and they pulled their own drama.

After our first child and fighting in front of the baby so much I demanded we go get help.

I found a resource called "marriage to the chronically self centered spouse" and it gave me parameters to help me...and see him for what he was.....(it didnt sink in enough)... I didn't tell him of course....but when he went to a therapist asked how it went and he said the guy was an idiot and didn't really care about him.  He said the guy gave me some dumb booklet (THE ONE I HAD FOUND!) and said my husband was very self centered and needed to be accountable and follow the parameters in the booklet in order to change and fix our marriage. Needless to say he wouldn't go back to that guy....but it was HUGE confirmation for me. You can't fix abuse. It isn't a marital issue. It's a decision one person makes. It says you can't work on the marriage until the offending spouse stops abusing.

He must have railed against me in his little hour and expected the therapist to agree with him.

But since I had a child and then children with him I tried to save the family.

His weight has gone up and up and up and he stopped brushing his teeth and it made it very hard for me to find him attractive.

Not because I am shallow or anything- it is because he is so lazy and eats compulsively with fast food and it feels aggressive like he is trying to kill himself with fast food. When I confronted him about this he said he didn't care if he lived or died.

Either way he is going to hurt my children....so I may as well strike while the iron is hot and while divorce is HIS suggestion and threat.


I'm also writing this because when he realizes he pushed me too far and that I woke up - I have a feeling he is about to become as charming as possible.
During the recent silent treatments he has been starving himself and eating nothing but protein shakes and working out like a mad man.
He goes through boughts like this but it rarely sticks because he goes into it so hard it is hard to sustain and he crashes again.

He is a very large man so his frame can handle a fluctuating 70 pounds without him looking too bad. I'm very small. He could crush me.

He treats ME as I'm the reason he is overweight and unhappy. He blames me for it all.

And with everything going on in the world I find it a scary time to forgoe even the illusion of a husband...but now I'm afraid of him.

At this point maybe if I frame it to him for his own self preservation he will be more receptive... (look, I've made you so unhappy and unhealthy just let us divorce peacefully and you can see the kids just as much as you do now but without me around to make you unhappy blah blah blah)


I was in a four month relationship when I was 19 to a really scary narcissist (felt like four years!(. Once I got the courage to leave him he threatened to kill me several times. He was so charming and handsome people teamed up on me saying I was the bad guy...but the police station had pictures of my bruises and wanted me to press charges. I learned quickly the justice system isn't very helpful when when they truly want to be.

I think because of that experience I kept telling myself my husband couldn't be a narcissist because he wasn't *that* kind.

But he has said recently sometimes I need a *spanking* so he does it with words. That is new. He always has said he can't hit me because I'm a girl so he hits me with words.

That's abuse. Why am I even still trying to convince myself and give him a million chances to change??

[feralcat]

This is very scary, Falsebalance.
You say you've been to attorney etc, but you really need to get in touch with the Domestic Violence services as well. Tell them all you've told us.
Hopefully they'll give you good advice on how best to play this

[Falsebalance]

This is very scary, Falsebalance.
You say you've been to attorney etc, but you really need to get in touch with the Domestic Violence services as well. Tell them all you've told us.
Hopefully they'll give you good advice on how best to play this

Thanks feralcat! I think you're right about me needing some help on how to proceed.

I haven't been yet I go on Wednesday. I am hoping they can send me in the right direction and someone can help me with how to keep things extremely calm.

Like I said since divorce is his go-to for control and he says he is miserable because of me quite often - I think that will help me soften the blow by saying I've made him miserable so let's give divorce a go and he can have all the freedom and see the kids still and if I can fix myself we can talk then.

I meant in my response "either way, he *won't* hurt my children. He loves being super dad when he has the energy for it... I'm just not sure how he is going to react to me when he realizes I'm getting off the Rollercoaster.

He is pretty smart and has a lot of self control which he demonstrates at his work place dealing with loads of angry people...so I'm thinking most likely is he will discard me and move on to the kids...

[notrightinthehead]

Seems to me that you are in a seriously abusive relationship. If you have not already, I urge you to read the book "Why does he do that" by Bancroft. This will open your eyes in how many ways you are being abused. At least that's what happened to me. Silent treatment is abuse. You don't need an excuse to leave an abusive relationship. The abuse affects yourself and your kids. Please do everything you can to protect yourself and your kids.

[escapingman]

NRITH, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but would that book be appropriate for a husband being abused by his wife? The title, "Why does HE do that" would seem to indicate it's written for women. But I sometimes often struggle to remind myself that my experiences are abuse, and I keep doubting myself. A book that opens my eyes to "how many ways I'm being abused" sounds amazing...but I also get a bit annoyed at narratives that focus only on women being abused by men, because (as we all know from this Forum) it can go both ways.

Completely agree, listening to an audiobook that is really good and then they only speak about women being abused takes away the trust a bit. It's difficult to say what it is but it's almost like the author doesn't get it by referring to is as only men abuses women. I have the same problem with all the campaigns about men abusing women. I get it, I really get it, but it feels like no one cares about us men that also are abused.

Sorry for also hijacking.

[Falsebalance]

Feralcat - I think I'm trying to keep myself from falling apart and in battle-mode so I can get myself and the kids out. Sorry if I don't sound like I'm taking it seriously. I am. I had a panic attack this morning- if I think about the danger and the what ifs I stop thinking clearly so I am going one step at a time....


To the gents - I can empathize. My mother was extremely abusive and sick. My only comfort I can offer is I remember being as old as 8 wishing my dad would stand up to her even though she threatened to destroy him and us - I wish he would have fought for us. Even if he got out and we were left with a little custody - it would have communicated *I* wasn't the problem...and maybe I wouldn't be where I am now.

That's what I'm trying to do and it is keeping me going.

My mother convinced me I was the problem in everyone's life. I have treated myself accordingly. I attract predators a lot because I am far to altruistic for my own good - but having children I have realized how they need me to take a stand and say this isn't okay - regardless of the consequences. I want them to know it isn't them.

You'd be surprised how many people will acknowledge men are abused as well. The only thing that bothers me is they laugh about it.

Man (and his counterpart) is a strange sorry creature.

[Falsebalance]

Seems to me that you are in a seriously abusive relationship. If you have not already, I urge you to read the book "Why does he do that" by Bancroft. This will open your eyes in how many ways you are being abused. At least that's what happened to me. Silent treatment is abuse. You don't need an excuse to leave an abusive relationship. The abuse affects yourself and your kids. Please do everything you can to protect yourself and your kids.

Oops I saw the cat NRITH and thought I responded correctly.

I know I have massive work ahead of me to accept my reality.

[Rose1]

I read the book a long time ago so a bit hazy, and I think it's mostly written from a woman's point of view. The author was a therapist working with men who had anger issues, so that is mostly his focus. It may be the underlying reasons for abuse are different.  I found some of his views quite enlightening and believe some of his ideas of generational learned behaviour would apply to female abusers too. 

However imo there is a difference between anger management and deliberate abuse in pd, to either manipulate for amusement or to get their way.

The book 'the gift of fear' I believe reviewed here, may be helpful.

[1footouttadefog]

Keep making your plans.  Hope for a less than nasty divorse, but prepare for the worse.

Please practice self care.  Don't wait intil you feel better,and things are easier to start taking care of yourself.  When a plain ride gets to of turbulent the oxygen masks drop.  You need to be strong enough to put yours in first for the kids and yourself both.

Stay strong.

[Falsebalance]

Keep making your plans.  Hope for a less than nasty divorse, but prepare for the worse.

Please practice self care.  Don't wait intil you feel better,and things are easier to start taking care of yourself.  When a plain ride gets to of turbulent the oxygen masks drop.  You need to be strong enough to put yours in first for the kids and yourself both.

Stay strong.

Thank you.

Some things happened but with MC and GR I was able to come out on top... but I'll be here for a while. I thought it was much easier to just leave but it won't be.

I feel kind of humbled and like not talking about it much now.

I feel stuck for now.

But I will start taking better care of myself. I lost nearly 10 pounds in the last two weeks just from my upset stomach. So I'm working on that now. Bought a bunch of good food groceries.

Thanks for the support.

[Falsebalance]

FalseBalance,
I've had a lot of stomach issues as well as a result of my relationship with PD. I've heard others say the same. I think it's typical that our bodies carry the weight of what we are dealing with. I don't know why I'm telling you this, other than know that you are not abnormal in this. I've heard the book "The Body Keeps the Score" explains this well, though I haven't read it myself yet.
The only solution I've heard to this is try and get time away...I know that's true for myself, my stomach does much better when I'm on a work trip for a few days. But that's not always an option!
Take care of yourself as best you can, and even more importantly, be kind to yourself. Give yourself grace. This is a terribly difficult thing one must face, and we all have to be kind to ourselves.

Thanks, user.

I'm being love bombed now and even that is painful. It's hollow and it's the point where I can't talk to many people about it because I'll sound cynical and ungrateful.

To an outsider it will sound like I got everything I wanted and have been crying over.

Only I can see how 2 dimensional it is. As I mentioned in another post - he was told to watch a movie and now he is acting as that character.

I'm so tired.

I think the love bombing is harder now that I'm awake. Now that I know to get what I needed stability wise set up and be ready to move forward when I'm directed to do so.

I hate how broken he is and I do know it came from a tragic childhood - but even he used to say "we all have a choice."

My stomach has been a little better. My energy is zero though and that is hard having to do all of the adult functions and working and caring for the kids.

Just feeling kind of low.

This time I didn't really get into the cycle with him I stayed pretty neutral and held my ground. People have said that's good - don't get your hopes up too high but keep going. Even that feels like I'm stuck. I wish I could step away but I can't unfortunately.

[1footouttadefog]

user,

The 100 traits list on this site can be views as a list of types of abuse.  It was very impacting for me in coming to terms with the amount and types of abuse I was living with.  It also gave me a vocabulary for several that I had not quite pinpointed to the extent I had words for them. I was instinctually aware something was wrong and intuitively knew but had not conciously itemized them all.