Nothing sinks in, or is it deliberate

[Lilyloo]

Notice slight name change   I wrote about the doctor list mom sent me recently.  I caved and said I will drive to one appointment and only one!!  Sticking to that!!  Sad to say the old guilt was acting up, and I really was angry at myself for caving. I figured offer one trip, and it eased my guilt. Isn't that just the saddest thing, that they can still guilt us after what they put us through I made it clear, I do not drive in that city anymore. She kept saying more about her other appointments.  One time she said she needed to go across town. Did she not hear, does it not sink in!!! I think its manipulation. I said no I don't drive across town, the traffic scares me.

I go to a smaller town on a open calm highway for groceries now.Her doctor apps are in a crazy nerve wrecking drive.  I repeatedly tell her this. 

I survived, but barely.  She bashed so many people, and esp the one who drove her so many times.  It's a family member who was always there to drive her until moms bashing her out in public, ended that relationship.  It went on to other people, mom was on a roll!  I sat biting my tongue. I kept changing the subject like saying "how great the snow melted quickly" or " I'm seeing some crocus coming up"  It did no good, she kept on. 

Her next talk was the food at the community center was just horrible! They weren't open when they said, she had to wait. Oh My!!!   It was the worst food she'd ever had!  My head was spinning, but I kept telling myself, soon I will be home.   I'm about 45 minutes from that doctor office.  The ride after I dropped her back home was joyful!  I turned up the music, rolled down the car windows, and was able to breathe, and headed home sweet home

I came home, texted brother that he can ask her about her next appointment. He sent me a LOL. He never offered. 

  I tell her no, yet she doesn't hear, lets say chooses not to hear. You know, its why we are here, to feel heard.   She said she expects to live to 90.  85 now. 

I never understood the self absorbed.  Thanks for listening to my rant 

[SunnyMeadow]

I have times of guilt too and I don't like it. I was never strong enough to firmly hold up my boundaries. I'd say you're doing a darn good job of it Lilyloo! (your slight name change made me do a double take  ) Caving in for one appointment is still good even though it may not feel like it now.

My uNPD mother has always said she's going to live until age 100 and she might just do it. 

Rant away - we understand!

[nanotech]

I so understand about the driving. My Ndad commanded me, that on my birthday, I would be driving him through a busy city - for a hospital appointment of course. I'm in the UK and I asked him if transport was being provided by the NHS. Oh yes but he wasn't going to travel in an ambulance with other people. ( this was pre pandemic so he would have been fine)
I told him I wasn't going to drive in that city as I wasn't familiar with it.  He talks non stop in the car  too, so I said no.
But I do get it about the temptation to 'do one trip'. In my case it was a train trip to a family funeral. It turned into a complete nightmare. He decided to have health issues, and almost disrupted the funeral service. We all ended up at the hospital in a city I didn't know. There was nothing wrong with him in the end. The best thing we can do after we've fallen down the ' just one trip' pothole, is to accept it happened,  and say a long loud 'Never Again!,' and then stick to it. Live and learn and all of that, not allowing ourselves to become sucked back in though hoovering or lovebombing.
Easier said than done I know - I've managed it so far and that was 3 years ago.
But my dad still insists his 'illness' was genuine. He loved all of the fuss and attention being on him, rather than the deceased family member!   And no, he's not learned anything and he hasn't changed. I just tell him I don't do hospital appointments or emergency dashes. If it were are an emergency, I would ring an ambulance for him. For an appointment, he's okay financially, so taxis are fine. 

[FromTheSwamp]

You got through it, and now you can pull up the memory any time she tries to guilt you again.  The annoyance, the stress, the feeling of not being safe.  All for someone who doesn't value you or your time and energy.  There's a reason taxis exist. 

[Lilyloo]

Thanks Friends, back tomorrow to reply.   

[Lilyloo]

nanotech, Thank you!  Your dad sounds like my mom.  3 years, cheers to you! You are doing great. I hope I can.  Shes already doing the love bombing with sweet quotes to my messenger. I know it's because she has all these other appointments.

FromTheSwamp, Thank you!  I will pull that memory!   I don't feel safe with her. I'm always waiting for her rages. 

SunnyMeadow, Thank you!  Wow your mom thinks she will live to 100!  I always felt my mom can't accept being old, so she goes constantly to doctors, hoping for miracles I guess

There's one thing she said that's staying in my mind, well honestly lots , but this one thing stands out.  She visits stepdad at the nursing home. He's had covid. He got better.  She has had no vaccine. She told me that my brother could get covid from her, he's had no vaccine.  It seemed she was saying he can't drive her, he may get sick, because she goes to the NH and if she would pick up covid at the nursing home, he could get it.   Hummm, there I am sitting in a car that close to her but I did not matter.  My health meant absolutely nothing!!  Sure I had the vaccine but they weaken and there's breakthroughs.

No wonder so many of us struggle.  This is not what Moms should do.

Thank you dear friends!   

[Cat of the Canals]

I think the repeat asking after hearing "no" is deliberate. It's what small children do when they are told they can't have a toy or ice cream or something else they want. They keep asking in hopes the answer will change to yes. And for many of us who were raised by PDs, anytime we don't give them what they want, we feel guilty. So they are pressing that button as well.

My husband is pretty stubborn and has always been better at saying no to his PDmom than I am with my own, but even he gets worn down and says YES to her demands because he'd rather shut her up than have to keep saying no.

[p123]

I so understand about the driving. My Ndad commanded me, that on my birthday, I would be driving him through a busy city - for a hospital appointment of course. I'm in the UK and I asked him if transport was being provided by the NHS. Oh yes but he wasn't going to travel in an ambulance with other people. ( this was pre pandemic so he would have been fine)
I told him I wasn't going to drive in that city as I wasn't familiar with it.  He talks non stop in the car  too, so I said no.
But I do get it about the temptation to 'do one trip'. In my case it was a train trip to a family funeral. It turned into a complete nightmare. He decided to have health issues, and almost disrupted the funeral service. We all ended up at the hospital in a city I didn't know. There was nothing wrong with him in the end. The best thing we can do after we've fallen down the ' just one trip' pothole, is to accept it happened,  and say a long loud 'Never Again!,' and then stick to it. Live and learn and all of that, not allowing ourselves to become sucked back in though hoovering or lovebombing.
Easier said than done I know - I've managed it so far and that was 3 years ago.
But my dad still insists his 'illness' was genuine. He loved all of the fuss and attention being on him, rather than the deceased family member!   And no, he's not learned anything and he hasn't changed. I just tell him I don't do hospital appointments or emergency dashes. If it were are an emergency, I would ring an ambulance for him. For an appointment, he's okay financially, so taxis are fine. 

Jeez I remember Dads hospital appointments. Can I take him ? Not really Dad it'd mean a day off work and I dont get paid.

So I sorted patient transport out for him. Like you're Dad, moaned it took too long, moaned there were other people on there. So I said, get a taxi, it's not far (would have cost £10) - anyone would have thought I'd asked him to donate a lung!

So we're back to me doing it -"will you do it for me?"

You're in the UK, so you'll know the distances here.  Even if I took half day. I was working in Gloucester, I live in Newport. Dads hospital is the other side of Cardiff.
It would have been 45 mins on the train back to Newport, 30-45 mins drives to Dads, 20-30 mins drive to hospital. Then reverse home for me....

And he still thought I was being mean not "helping him out" i.e. saving him £20 on a taxi. (which I offered to pay anyway - but then realised it wasnt the money it was the joy of "making" me do something he wanted).

[Sneezy]

And he still thought I was being mean not "helping him out" i.e. saving him £20 on a taxi. (which I offered to pay anyway - but then realised it wasnt the money it was the joy of "making" me do something he wanted).

They are all using the same playbook, aren't they?  I have offered to pay for my mom's uber rides so she can go anywhere she wants, any time.  I have offered to give her $10 per week so she can order groceries for delivery every week ($5 delivery fee plus $5 tip is all it costs per delivery).  She sighs, she cries, she rants at me.  It's not about the money.  It's about control and manipulation and guilt.  It's about proving we love them because they have never felt loved.

No matter what we do, it will never be enough.  They will never feel safe and secure and loved.  Is it how they were raised?  Is it in their DNA?  I don't know, but I know it makes me sad.  And I also know I can't fix it.

[Lilyloo]

Thanks everyone for your input.   Our parents sure seem the same. It's so frustrating.  I have yet to make my brother see that he should be helping with the driving.  Like your parents my mom refuses to take the weekly bus that is designed to drive the elderly to appointments. Honestly  I think they feel we owe them.   I try to be a good daughter but it's very difficult giving and never getting anything in return.  It seems it's very one sided.  Thank you everyone. It is so helpful reading your replies

[SunnyMeadow]

I try to be a good daughter but it's very difficult giving and never getting anything in return.  It seems it's very one sided.

This sums it up perfectly and is exactly how I feel.

My elderly parents just sit in their recliners waiting for me to do, do, do for them.  Without so much as a lame, half-hearted Thank You, what a way to live. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

I have yet to make my brother see that he should be helping with the driving.  Like your parents my mom refuses to take the weekly bus that is designed to drive the elderly to appointments. Honestly  I think they feel we owe them.

You have gotten a lot of good support, so I am going to restrict my comments to just this little snippet above. Really, your brother should be helping with the driving? She has another option. She doesn't like it. But she has it. Why do you believe HE owes her rides, and why do you feel you have the right to tell him so? Your brother's boundary about driving seems to be he doesn't drive her, same as you.

I can only tell you my own experience, and I used to guilt my siblings and try to make them work as hard as I did myself, because it's not FAIR. It would have been more comfortable to have other people willing to take some of the heat of the uPD so I could get a break! I wouldn't have framed it that way but I wanted some of the pressure off of ME, and even in my fogged state I knew on some level there would always be a scapegoat, someone cast as dutiful daughter. Even if they were willing, it would not have made the situation any healthier for any of us.

[Lilyloo]

Call Me Cordelia, My little snippet!  Yes, even if you don't like what I said, my brother(brothers) have as much in this with my mom as I do. She birthed them also, and as the only girl, it is NOT fair for to me to be doing it all.  I took care of the 3 of them when my dad died in his 40s. They were age 10, 7, and 2 and guess what, I was 13. I had no life with my friends, and I became an adult really quickly.

I saw to it that they ate, they took baths. If not they'd have gone to school dirty!  I washed their hair, I made sure they had clean clothes on.  I have pictures where they are all hanging on to me, 2 year old in my arms, and me a skinny broken hearted 13 year old who saw her dad die of a massive heart attack. Then there were 3 little boys who needed me. Mom turned me into the little mommy. 

I have drove her for 40 years!  Her endless hypochondric illnesses, her need of doctors to pacify her. I am old now too. 

Don't call my voice "a little snippet"   Did I say owe???  How about share, how about help their sister out who gave her teen years to help them. 

  I never once guilted my brothers. I simply told them its hard doing this alone. That's what I said to them.

And......I drive her. Lets see all of her surgeries, follow up appointments, doctor visits, whats it been, humm 40 years. To ask for help in my old age is wrong?? 

[Lilyloo]

Sunny, Sneezy, Cat, P123,  Thank you dear friends.   Support is amazing here.  On days when I just felt like giving up, each of you were here, you got it, you knew how it felt.  I am Thankful

[Call Me Cordelia]

Oh dear, LilyLoo. It's NOT fair, and you are stepping away from that unfairness by simply doing less. Which we have all been applauding you for. And it's not at all fair that you were forced to be the (only) adult from such a young age. I'm truly sorry.

I'm also sorry you found the word "snippet" offensive. It was only meant to denote that I was just going to talk about that small quote. Your voice is not a snippet and I never meant to put you down in any way.

Yes, it would have been nice to have brothers to share the load in many many ways, to help YOU. It would have been your right to have a parent who actually was a parent, not your self-appointed child, then and now. Unfortunately your brothers have never learned how or cared enough to be supportive. I remember you have lost the one brother you were closest to. What I was noticing, though, is that you are asking them to help your MOTHER, the one who perpetrated this dysfunction against you. Not to help you, at least not directly. If you have the option of simply not driving her, then you're already off the hook. It's a nightmare to drive her, so it did stand out to me that you want that experience for your brothers when it's not actually necessary. And if things have been so out of balance for forty years, whether it's realistic to continue to ask them to change their behavior that is evidently working for them, or if you are simply setting yourself up for another round of the same old disappointment. You can choose instead to put your energy where it brings you joy. I hope that clears matters up.

[Lilyloo]

  Thanks Cordelia. I see now that I took that the wrong way. Very sorry. You are very helpful. I think I better take a break and get my head on straight.  Thank you

[Cat of the Canals]

Building on what Cordelia has said, perhaps it might help to hear from a "less dutiful" child. My parents are still both fully independent, but I know that as they age, my brother is going to jump right in to be the caretaker. He has already started talking about all the things they "need" to do now that they're getting older. I, on the other hand, have no plans to jump in to do anything. I will not be their nurse or chauffer or anything of that nature. I suspect this will create some friction between us, as he will no doubt feel that I'm not doing my "fair share." But it's not anyone's "fair" share when it's motivated purely by guilt and obligation. Where he will likely end up wishing that I'd pull more weight, my wish is that he'd stop believing it's anyone's responsibility to carry that weight at all (aside from my parents themselves). And as awful as it will be to watch him go marching on to the tune of my mother's guilt trips, I refuse to subject myself to that in the name of so-called fairness.

[feralcat]

When my elderly UnPdM had an injury, my youngest Sis arranged a meeting to decide who was going to do what ( my ' I might as well be dead' M had of course cancelled/sabotaged all outside help, because she has faaaamily). She basically nominated another sis to care for her, and when said Sis protested , called her a 'martyr'.

Apparently they even tried to rope me in. I'm not young myself , was working at the time and live 3 hours away.
Nope.
Mind you, this was partly why I started to pull Out of the FOG.
More and more I realise how dysfunctional my FOO are becoming. It's sad. So glad I live far away enough to be out of the sphere of influence.

Lily loo, please don't back off. No one knows your background until/ unless you tell us. Stay and , hopefully, begin to heal.

[Lilyloo]

Thank you Cat

[Lilyloo]

Thank you Feralcat