Mutual Friend Dilemma

[DistanceNotDefense]

Hi OOTFers - I find myself in a dilemma with DH and myself over some (well, in this particular instance, one) of our mutual friends.

DH was trying to recruit a couple (male) friends of ours to help him out with a project at our place over the next couple days, and during the weekdays, when I work and am very busy. But I was very OK with that, seeing as they're all men and will probably just work/talk together/keep to themselves, and it would not be too big a distraction to my work. (I work from home)

Over the term of planning, however, one of them tried to invite his girlfriend (another of our mutual friends) or, what is also very possible/more likely, she tried to invite herself to be part of the visit - which wasn't really meant to be a visit or hangout (definitely not for me). She has some physical and mental limitations that demand a lot of attention and accommodating, and I couldn't possibly imagine her being fully entertained and kept busy by "the boys'" hard labor during that time, and probably gravitating more toward me as the only female there for conversation and entertainment.

This girlfriend is someone I attempted to be close with over the last year and it just didn't work out well. She revealed a lot of quite toxic, codependent traits (these don't have to do with her limitations) and I responded by starting to pull back and distance myself from how much one-way attention she seemed to expect from people. The last time I was in her company, she made a vague passive aggressive "dog whistling" comment openly in mixed company that I think was intended for me, and because of my distancing/boundaries: something along the lines of that "friends who really care should call each other." It made me extremely uncomfortable, and confused, and VERY FOGged, of course, as I've dealt with this same type of guilt tripping from FOO all my life.

This was also after telling her I wasn't much of a phone-chat person, and also after a year that she would call me for random chats in the middle of my work days at the busiest times of year - that after a while I just stopped answering and tried to tie in with her later about. Then she would be more or less completely unavailable/non-responsive when I reached out at less busy times for myself, and once even when I reached out to her during a personal crisis I was having. She also flaked a lot on the get-togethers I *did* try to include her in, including a reservation for my birthday dinner that she bailed on w/o notice (isn't that supposed to be considered incredibly rude in terms of manners???)

I've considered that this could have something to do with her mental limitations and possible forgetfulness, but there's only so much I can make exceptions for - FOO "weaponized" mental limitations in the same way to manipulate me in the past, and I will forever be cynical, sadly.

My DH brought up her possibility of her coming out and I was up front about how uncomfortable she made me feel. She is a tad narcissistic, and moreover, I know her well enough that she would struggle with the male work/talk hangout and probably seek me out to talk and hang out during the work day at our home - which I made clear would really stress me out, I deal with many, many deadlines. I have many tasks to do that she would be incapable of helping me with or slow me down on (though I understand her disabilities completely - but that's just how it is and my work is my work). But also, I don't really need the help.

Not to mention, she is an individual that at this time, I just don't care to get to know better or spend time with. Someone who makes me feel the FOG is just not good for me to be around right now. (And ol' codependent me - even though I have boundaries, I know myself enough that I will probably cave and try to give her the attention she wants if she were around. I will feel internal pressure to keep her entertained and happy so that she likes me, despite all the work I have to do - I've done it with people before, it is my struggle!)

DH said he was uncomfortable with it, too, and we discussed ways that she could be gently uninvited. (Like: "This is just a guy's hangout/project work mostly, Distance is extremely busy if she's hoping to have gal time, there isn't room in the car for her to come, etc."). He thinks she's a perfectly fine person (though his standards on good company can be pretty poor sometimes...) but did try to address and take into account my misgivings about her - but not so much the likely reality of what was happening, that it's very likely her hopes were to tag along and spend time with me. I also expressed that I don't want to lead her on with the idea that we could be close friends.

I didn't want to involve myself or control the plans so I just said my piece, I couldn't just flat out say "make sure she doesn't come." I don't want to hurt feelings. I don't mind her being in my "outer" circle of friends/acquaintances and don't wish to make things that personal or even cruel with her, just don't want to be close but more so, I'm just busy.

But come to find out today, it is planned for her to come. I also find out that DH passed along to her that she would "be most welcome" to come (which angered me), with some "buts", but apparently they were not strong enough "buts" to keep her from coming. Come to hear this, I feel a ton of anxiety, upset, and distress. I share this with DH, he says he doesn't think it will be a big deal and he will just "take care of it." (I guess put in the extra effort to keep her away from me, is sort of what he offered? Which is so awkward and honestly unrealistic as he'll be busy too).

In expressing my feelings of unsafety DH jumped the gun and decided to cancel the whole thing based on a lie about a flat tire (not at my urging). So now I'm tied up with the guilt around him cancelling on my behalf but also guilt over expressing my feelings and self-interests in the first place.

Am I out of line? I tried to explain it to him like an addiction, that it would be like bringing loads of alcohol into the home of an alcoholic during a party. The temptation to please toxic people is the same - dealing with the shame and confusion of not being able to just get along and be worry-free like the people drinking (knowing how to moderate - and trusting yourself that you do recognize toxic traits). But, knowing it will be much worse if you cave in (which I am liable to do) and it's much easier to slip into people pleasing without realizing it than opening a can of beer without realizing it - and then beating yourself up for slipping into the old role; and lately, sometimes, enforcing boundaries with narcissistic people in social situations leaves me extremely guilty and confused that I'm being too closed off. I leave too many gatherings feeling exhausted and even some self-loathing comes up....

Was I in the wrong for expressing what I feel? I also feel like DH had his own potential boundaries around the situation and he completely biffed it, knowing it would create discomfort for the both of us. DH is different from me: he just wants everyone to like him and feel included and invited, no matter what (even if it's people who don't fully respect him), but it definitely felt like a choosing of others' feeling invited into his life over how harmful the situation could be to me. And in some cases, his way of dealing with this is projecting his own discomfort about his inability to have boundaries/say no on to me, and make it seem like I'm being difficult or making a big deal out of something that is easy for him.

Feeling fear, guilt, and obligation for sure right now. OOTFers, how would you handle the situation, and how do you handle the guilt of enforcing the fact that some people (even friends) you just can't be around in your own best interest, despite other people not thinking it's a big deal? Thank you in advance so much.

[escapingman]

I understand where you are coming from and completely get it. I also understands your DH when you say he just want everybody around him to like him, that's my dad in a nutshell.

But next time, could you work away from home? Would it be possible for you to book a hotel and work from there? If so, then your DH can do whatever he likes and you are just not around?

[notrightinthehead]

I get your addiction - the people pleasing ist just too easy to slip into and the putting your own interests second or even last, the feeling guilty and torn between work and trying to make another comfortable, the disgust with oneself for one's own behaviour, the dislike of the person who puts me into this dilemma, the guilt for this rejection of the other and the resulting stress and confusion.
Good that for now it has been postponed, but it probably is not cancelled completely.  If you can't leave the scene,  can you make your home office a NO GO zone? Can you lock it? Can you establish for yourself Not available times like a shop might have? Then if such a situation arises again, you could indulge in your addiction for certain times only and it would not conflict with your work.
On the other side, the way you describe this woman, she does not sound like she might be a good fit for you.  This friendship sounds very one sided and why would you want to waste your valuable time on such a onesided friendship? Congratulations on being so self aware and looking after yourself.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Thank you both, escapingman and notrightinthehead, for your responses and wisdom! I feel better validated, so thank you.

I am playing with the idea of booking a hotel, yes. If DH knew in advance that I would do this he would have permanently canceled the whole thing and maybe moped about it a little. Only thing is that I do have some tasks still yet to do around here....

It irks me as I really don't want to set a precedent that DH's plans override my own and mean that I have to leave my house to get work done, when my schedule is more important than his (this will constitute his free time ultimately and not his work time which is why I say this. While sure he is working on a project with these friends of ours, they all get famously distracted and are as hard to herd as cats).

His canceling yesterday was to push it back a night apparently as I came to know later last night. They are still coming up today and DH was very wishy-washy about it. First he said "I really don't want to feel like you have to put up with someone toxic in our home" then switched to "well I can't say no now, I'd look bad, I'll just do my best to keep them out of your hair."

With these space cadet friends of ours, yeah, good luck with that! And there's no way in h#$@ this girlfriend isn't going to be knocking on my door at some point wanting to catch up or some other. And I will sit there and probably entertain it with a forced smile, as I listen to all the sideways, passive-aggressive, attention-demanding things she has to say.

Even when work is done I really don't even like the idea of having a chat with these friends (and this particular friend) over dinner, not at this point.

Thank you NRITH - learning how to value yourself and your own feelings, when other people want to make it seem like you're just nothing but a stick-in-the-mud, is hard.

I think I might call a hotel right now.

[notrightinthehead]

Let us know what you did, how it turned out, and what you learned from it.

[moglow]

Boundaries, Distance - Be very very gray rock and encourage her to seek life elsewhere. "I'm in the middle of it here and don't have time to chat, was there something in particular you needed?" then turn back to what you were doing, even if at that moment it's just a puzzle! YOU didn't invite or welcome a guest, and most assuredly not this one.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Thank you, Moglow! And thank you NRITH.

I worked away from home today and booked a hotel, and toyed with the idea of meeting up with other friends, but decided I wanted to be alone more so. Plus it turned out my workload was waaaaaay bigger than I expected. It was the perfect and right choice to make and I'm glad I followed my gut (and thank you for the advice and the gentle push here, I'm so grateful for the support).

With people around, I would have definitely caved and tried to visit, sit down for dinner, etc. and there's no way none of them would have completely left me alone to focus, and there was no way I would have gotten my work done...work that *really* needed to happen today because, come to find out, I have an urgent deadline tomorrow. And I just couldn't imagine the evening going by either without girlfriend saying something odd that would bounce around after in my head for days.

I almost caved in a few times and thought about driving back. But kept thinking about what it would be like to be around this girlfriend, and my DH, who I am very upset with at the moment, and how I would just have to clench my teeth through it, and it would ALL be to please DH and show friends that we weren't in disagreement, and that everything is fine... but more critically, to please and entertain this woman I don't want to be friends with who managed to horn in on my peace and healing, and the hospitality of my DH.

I stayed strong and felt like something was telling me, yes this is hard, it feels mean. But this is the right way to go and I would regret going back ultimately - even though I really just wanted to sleep in my bed....and the thought of that got me angrier, thinking about the situation my DH has pushed me into and that I'm not at home where I want to be. Because he decided to choose the feelings and comfort of friends over mine because he couldn't grow the backbone. (He admitted it but was still very defensive).

I got SO busy today that I had to turn off my phone to ignore DH. Who was trying to convince me about how great the whole day was going and how it would have gone perfectly, and no one would have bothered me if I was there. (Really....?  he was only on his best behavior because I wasn't there...). And he was wondering when I'd come back. And what to tell everyone, as it got later and later, and he felt more awkward about my not being there....(which is ridiculous, I told him weeks and weeks ago I wasn't going to be available when they were here and very busy with work, which leads me to believe he did have some expectation I would be available and just tried to whittle that down).

I told him, "what's happening is you expected me to bear the burden of an awkward situation for ME that YOU created. Now I simply removed myself from the situation for my own best interests, and you have to handle all the awkwardness YOU created."

It's so hard dealing with codependency, because people don't get it if they don't see it in themselves or don't struggle with it themselves. My DH quit drinking and he should know what it's like dealing with addiction. He's a good person, but it is painful when he is so blind to this, allows certain people into our lives, and then defends them. I think it will be a hard learning process for him, he will get there, but it will be hard - if he can't get there then I just don't know about the long term future.

As for the friend... I hope she gets the hint that I'm not interested in friendship. If not, I will have to tell her sometime if she keeps trying to horn in like this. But this wasn't the time. DH got upset and said something stupid, like "well instead of leaving the house, why don't you just tell her flat out to her face while she's here that you don't like her and get it over with?" Wow good idea!?  Yeah, in the comfort of my own home where she will be staying uninvited (by me) for two days, yeah, that will go over peachy. I will tell her on my own time and in my own terms, not my husband's.

Tomorrow I will tell him that my equivalent of a recovery group encouraged me to do the exact opposite of what he was pressuring me to do. Seeing as he is in a recovery group himself, I hope that gets through to him.

Thanks again, so much, to you all. You really helped me today.

[feralcat]

Hiya. I was out yesterday, but reading the thread today I was almost screaming " go away, run!".
So glad you did ..and resisted your own people pleasing inner voice telling you to give in. Yay.

I know you keep saying DH is lovely, lacking in confidence and scared of conflict...but he seems quite happy for YOU to have to suck things up. If you don't mind me saying. And pushy/ manipulating ?
I do know how it goes. My own DH is like this as well. Resulting in my feeling waaay down the hierarchy of importance. And he has pushed me to get closer to a friends partner, who I know from past experience will drain me dry.

I can't believe he was pushing you to bawl her out in front of everyone. Why ? To be the baddy, show it's not his fault ?

I think the discomfort you've been feeling is the painful emergence of a new boundary. A foundation stone on which you can begin to build a new way of being.
Can I ask ...you say he's in a support group, and you use this one as your support. Have you ever tried joining e.g ACON (is that right ?), as the partner of a recovering addict ? For support.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Distance,

It sounds to me like you did the right things in regards to expressing yourself and stating the boundaries.

One of the obvious boundaries, was that the focus of this gathering was on working on the project - not socializing. I say obvious because if only that had been obvious to everyone else involved - it was obvious to you, and it is obvious to us here.

People who don't have good boundaries tend to then make others responsible for managing activities so that important tasks get completed. They themselves, do not want to 'rock the boat' so they avoid doing so - and then, as you saw, they will blame someone for how the whole situation goes.

You were certainly never ever obligated to entertain and host this woman who wanted to tag along even when she wouldn't be there to help with the work project the men were going to work on.

The thing I have learned, is that a lot of people will try to exploit us. They will exploit our kindness. Of course, as a kind person, you will always be aware of what other people want. She probably wanted someone to visit with during this event.

That is her problem! That was never on you!

It sounds to me like you got stuck managing a situation where other people refused to make good decisions so that the work could get done. There was a way for them to do their project, and for you to not entertain this woman in your home, when you did not want to do so. I am sorry that your DH did not see how to do that.

As someone who came into adulthood with a lot of FOG from narc abuse, I was often used by people who figured out oh hey, if I blame Trees for the situation, she will actually feel responsible! Even when she's not!

Now of course that is not a conscious thought that they have, they are just doing what they have always done - blame someone else for the situation they are annoyed with, or that they don't really want to deal with.

Healing from codependency is really good for us and it will involve understanding when someone is trying to make you feel responsible for something you are not responsible for. You were never responsible for making this whole project go well, and you were never ever responsible for hosting and entertaining this woman just because she felt like tagging along. You're not obligated to host her for long periods. Yes, as a wife of his friend, you should be kind to her socially, in small doses. I think sometimes we women are expected to be friends with the women in our men's lives, just because it is convenient for them. This will make healing from codependency a bit more of struggle. But you are doing it! Good for you for getting the hotel.

There are some good articles online about how over-explaining ourselves is a sign that we are being pulled in to the old routine. As recovering codependents, we have a right to say "no thank you, that won't work for me right now" and leave it at that.

Trees

[blacksheep7]

Hi DND,

Honestly, you did right to express your feelings and boundaries concerning the gf.  However I don't believe that you should leave your home, rent a room at the hotel to soften the situation.  I'm glad that it did work out for you after all.

I can understand that your dh wants to be liked by everyone, not to rock the boat but you shouldn't have to be the culprit.
Finally, he did have to deal with the situation he created, as you said.

I've had a similar situation with dh, a good man who wants to get along with everyone, not pass as the bad guy.  He said something in front of me to his family, making me look like I was the one being difficult.  Once we were back home, I mentionned how it made me feel.  He understood my point of view.

It takes several situations or events, being open about our feelings and boundaries to come to a mutual understanding, each putting in the effort to do our part.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Thank you feralcat! I know exactly what you mean. DH is for the most part a ray of sunshine (if he wasn't, this s#$& would be intolerable, and it did almost get that way once - he's had to put in a lot of his own personal work to keep this marriage). But when he thinks something is automatically going to be a great idea and I don't, and he just tries to jam it through without approval, it's a little like a manipulative childish meltdown over these boundary issues. If you were there in real time, you'd see he loses all sense of logic and goes plummeting down that emotional elevator (mommy issues, much..?)

Him suggesting I confront her during those two days was at his absolute height of childishness, of him attempting to push the responsibility of her presence onto me, and it was so ridiculous it was just silly. It does feel very manipulative and pushy, and it's very hard to deal with manipulation from someone you love and who loves you.... But even people you love can be immature and avoid accountability. I'm sorry you deal with that also.

Yes, this is after years, and years, and years of my feeling like it WAS my responsibility to be friends with the people he likes. (And oh yes, DH has put me in similar positions - Some of them I have and did like, and am still good friends with, and some, nope...while DH still holds onto this idea that they're lovely people and I can just tolerate them for him). But these past couple years have felt like churning through an anti-codependence machine as I recover and really seeing things as they are. I suddenly don't like new people as easily or quickly. Even a good few of our current friends IRL I don't know about anymore. The potential friends that are interested in me, I've noticed just want something and then dry up (for godssakes I have one texting me like that right this instant).

I just don't see what some people bring to the table anymore, when past me was so happy with these types of people. And turns out I was starving at a banquet this whole time. This change in me is VERY new to DH that I'm in operating this way. He is still hanging around in people-pleasing codependent town with everybody. His need for me to be around or approve of certain people in order for him to have his own hangouts in peace, will be his own codependent problem. Like you said, this is the painful emergence of a new boundary and it's gonna stick whether he likes it or not.

And THANK YOU Trees! You're the best. You're so right and that is very validating to hear. I am not obligated to host someone so draining (and annoying!) and I definitely feel that. I also just feel like I don't want to be around her at all anymore. But the worst part is also being with DH who on that subject says "I just don't see what the big deal is? She's fine to me." It felt today like there are two people I am avoiding.

Not conscious of what they're doing - exactly.  It's an immature child autopilot they never grew out of. To get emotional needs met, it's worked so well their entire lives. So they never needed to change . DH is very much this way. It's only now that he's learning these boundaries that I didn't have before. So is this girlfriend, though I can tell she's wholly comfortable taking things a little step further and moving a little more into that conniving level: "Send me more texts and pictures. Call me more. Please, validate to me that I am interesting. Oh look, now that I finally having you giving me attention, I'm not interested nor responding." Her boyfriend, my other friend, I feel bad for him. He is under her thumb in that exact way. I notice at gatherings that he is sort of running around trying to make her comfortable and accommodate her, soothe her insecurities. Like when she says randomly "I don't think that woman likes me" when someone leaves the room. He is rubbing her back and reassuring her. Whoah big red flag right there!

Thank you also blacksheep. I also don't believe I should have left (but I don't regret it, and the hotel was actually pretty nice treat), it wasn't fair to me, and that shouldn't be the norm for how these things go, that I accommodate to get my work done while he can push his own social agenda at my expense (and it's always dubious how much he actually gets done with these friends specifically). In our messaging, while I was away, I made it clear to DH that I really don't want to deal with this ever again and I better not. It crosses some real boundaries for me.

And yes that's exactly it. DH does not want to be the bad guy. But it means he leaves it a lot to me to enforce any boundaries, period. He's a real delight to be with and it really wouldn't hurt him as much as he thinks to put his foot down sometimes.

Thank you also for sharing your process blacksheep - I think DH will eventually get this one too as we've worked on a lot of things. He's just the type who sometimes needs to be pulled into it kicking and screaming.

Again, so appreciative and grateful of everyone's comments here. I feel very seen and affirmed in my recovery!