Do you...

[Prototypian]

Do you ever start something simple for yourself and find a deep sense of fear when your spouse heads toward that part of the house.  Something as simple as you decide to try out a new cookie recipe you read and you realize she/he is suddenly home and you can't hide it and you know you're going to get an interrogation and hear derogatory comments?

Do you ever hide your head in embarrassment when your spouse gets angry and emotional to the point of causing a scene over someone else's thoughts or opinions.   Not as thought someone was derogatory or crude but they expressed an opinion that is their own but doesn't matter like "I think the city should ban political signs from the street medians".   Your spouse hears this and it's not a disagreement, he/she is angry, emotional and ready to halt all casual conversation to let that person know how wrong they are and what the consequences would be if something like that ever happened.

Do you ever try to step in to protect your kids from anger only to get the violent end of an emotional outburst.   Like the kid chooses not do do extra credit or chooses not to go to scouts that night or decides their senior photo isn't that important to them.   And your spouse's loses it in anger and when you step in to protect the kids he/she goes into complete meltdown alternating between crying about how he/she could raise such ungrateful kids vs explosive anger. 

Do you ever burn things to avoid them being found.   Like your own clothes can't even be snuck into the trash if you wanted to throw or give them away so you sneak old receipts or clothing or even just old sales ads that are expired into the fireplace so that they can't be found.  And then do you live in fear that he)she will start am inquisitive set of questions to trap you because she knows the sales ads or clothes were "right there" and now they are not and the only possible culprit is you.

Last, do you ever wonder about the fifth amendment.   The one that says a spouse can not be compelled to testify against their spouse.   Do you ever feel like you could be falsely accused of a crime and your spouse would morally take the stand and tell the court everything because they have a duty to the greater good and you would not matter as long as they see justice served?   I would never commit a crime but I've always felt that my spouse would rather see me jailed if there was any sort of chance that justice was not served by my not going to jail.   This is a total hypothetical but I can tell that her care for me is only the mechanics of spouse in the legal sense of moral expectations.   It's not because she cares about me

These are some of the things I wonder about.  Do any of you live like this?

[Stillirise]

In short, no, I didn't.  I can relate to parts of your story, like hiding anything new or different, for fear of interrogation, or the anger over other people's opinions or decisions, that have no impact on our own lives. 

I'm so very sorry you and your children have lived in a household with such behaviors for so long.  I'm also quite impressed with the recent steps you've taken to assert and free yourself from it.

I stayed in my marriage to updxh for far too long, because I was in the FOG, and also felt morally obligated to do so. Once the FOG lifted, and I saw my primary moral obligation was to protect my kids and myself from further damage, I couldn't unsee it.

Best wishes to you, Jsinjin. I'll be here rooting for you!

[Cascade]

Yes, I have experienced some of those things but not to the same degree that you have. For instance, I often avoid doing things when my PD husband is at home so I don't get the unwanted complaints or comments about what I am doing. I have stepped in to protect my kids. I don't burn things to hide them but I have thrown out things in public garbage cans so they won't be found in our garbage. I'm sorry you have to live like this, it sounds very stressful.

[Kat54]

Not to your extent but I either hid things or just did things to avoid his snide or derogatory remarks. Nothing was ever right in his eyes.

It's hard and very abusive to you. But I know you are taking more positive steps for yourself.

[Empie2204]

I am so sorry you have to live through this, Jsinjin! It´s familiar to me.

I used to hide all of me: everything that represented me. I was not completely aware of that when I was in the FOG but now I am.
When he was not at home or when he was sleeping, I read, watched films that I like, wrote my journal, listened to music over earphones, and talked to my friends.
When he was not home my kids and I joked, laughed, and felt relaxed.

His urge to control was such that he considered all these little pleasures a sort of sin and treason. In the end, I felt I was cheating on him whenever I was on the phone or computer or did something that made me happy.

[Cat of the Canals]

I don't feel this way with my partner, but I did (and to some degree still do) with my mother. Her intrusiveness first made an impression on me when I was about six years old, and I started hiding things from her from there on out.

I didn't burn things but I did sneak them into the trash. I worried it wouldn't be safe in the house so I'd take it all the way out to the bins.

[BeautifulCrazy]

Yes.
All of it.
Well, except the fifth amendment stuff.... You got me there! I laughed out loud reading that! Partly because, no, my brain has not gone there, that's a pretty unique one! And partly because, yep, I think that would be my OCPDh too. I think he probably would defend me if I had committed a crime that benefitted him. But I feel very sure that if I did something illegal that didn't, he would sing like a canary. He has a very rigid internal morality. It isn't necessarily the same as the law, or generally accepted morals though.

I used to be absolutely mortified by my spouse's behavior in public sometimes, but after a few years I got past my embarrassment about my PDh's overreactions to other people's thoughts or opinions. I think it was here on Out of the FOG that I learned his reactions were all his and that if I wanted to, I could just walk away, like I would do with any other person who was being insufferably rude. He got angry when I did that, especially at first, but I felt better not having to listen to it and not having to worry about being associated with it. Besides, PDh was usually angry at me about something after we interacted with other people anyway. 

I think one of the best parts of life without my PDh is the freedom to be completely myself and do what I want to do, without feeling self conscious about it. I no longer have to live with that feeling of wanting to hide what I do, or who I am, or what I like, or what I think, in order to avoid criticism or questioning.
That feeling like I am shrinking into myself when he is around is not there. It is completely the opposite now! I feel like I can expand and take up space right into my surroundings. As a matter of fact, we do exactly that.... our surroundings reflect who we are now. Our personalities are expressed all over. Our current interests are all out there in the open.
It was so stifling to live with someone else's fear about doing things or trying things and all the minutia that might go wrong, or look bad, or cost a few extra dollars, or whatever....

On a related note..... Earlier today I was thinking about how nice it is for the kids to be able to play their music in the house now without anybody criticizing it or wanting it shut off. Nobody rants about what they "should" listen to or "have to" learn to appreciate. Nobody belittles their choices or tells them all about why their selections are bad. Playing music used to be a total eggshell walking experience for the kids. The moment PDh pulled in the driveway, they would turn it off or go hide in their rooms and play it at a low volume. Now they take turns being DJ during dinner cleanup.
Maybe they will never appreciate country music. Maybe they won't grow up to know all the jazz standards by heart. But, really.... So What?!

[Empie2204]

BeautifulCrazy, I simply love your post. It expresses everything!

[JustKeepTrying]

jsinjin,

yes, yes to all of it.  It emptied me.  When I left I was a shell - a walking ghost with no material essence.  The starkness of your post is so familiar.  I molded myself and drove deep any part of me to bend to whatever crazy rule he was creating for that moment.

He traveled frequently.  On those weeks I would throw things out that I thought he wouldn't miss just to clear some of the clutter.  When he was home, he would rebag and go through the garbage in case I accidentally threw something away.  He once raged that I threw out a receipt for cash for a banana - 24 cents.  I would search for change in the car and in the couch cushions so I could buy lunch and not have it tracked.  I found I could take out 20 in cashback on those rare times I was allowed to grocery shop and I would squirrel it away to pay for things like hand lotion and a bra.  Yes, I had to hide the money I would need to buy underwear.  And in my logical mind, I knew it was crazy.  But I couldn't walk away. 

I hope you can find peace.  Hold on to yourself.  Don't loose yourself.  You are an incredible person and you deserve peace and happiness.

[Prototypian]

JKT:

Wow, weird, I have the same thing on the men's side.   I have felt for a long time that I have a very good career that let us pay for the home, kids educations, transportation, and everything else we needed.  And I want to buy myself "nicer" guys underwear.   Not something stupid like designer but just go to the local department store and buy men's sport underwear that isn't cheap.    And it's an issue for her.  I have no idea what she wears and I don't track it but for some reason she actively cares about the cost of what I choose for boxer briefs, when I make the purchase and comments things like "oh, you bought the expensive underwear didn't you" if she spots them as something new and then the the quizzing starts of how much, where did they get purchased, did I compare prices.   I've always felt like at my executive level career I should be able to wear whatever underwear feels comfortable.

And I do the same thing with snagging cash at the checkout if the grocery bill is enough.

And I truly don't think it's about being mean to me that she does this, it's the concern about what's right or wrong or what's frivolous or not.   It's strange.

[escapingman]

You are freaking me out, I have had the same with my uNPDw that I suspekt must be OCPD as well. Every receipt had to be saved, at the end of the month she crossed them all off against credit card statements and if one is missing she will question me. If I can't remember she would accuse the shop for fraud and quite possible contact Amex to have the transaction blocked. If I come home from the supermarket, she would check every item and if she find out it's 20 pence cheaper at another supermarket she would make me take the item back and rebuy it from the other supermarket.  If I buy a pair of shoes, the receipt need to be kept and the shoes rebought until the price drops and we get them cheaper. I have no joy buying anything as everything goes through the same process. Since I filed for divorce I have stopped credit card statements and stopped giving her my receipts, it's driving her insane.

Be strong jsinjin, I feel your pain.

[Prototypian]

This is an interesting dynamic we are all sharing.   My spouse isn't doing this behavior for a reason of controlling me specifically.  She does it to herself too.   If she loses a receipt or realizes she could have gotten yogurt cheaper at one grocery store vs another she gets very upset.   What I used to see as "trying to control me" is in reality just a way for her to try and control everything.   

Our city has a program every 6 months where they bring in a set of recycling and disposal groups at one of the big city parking lots.  Residents can drop off batteries, paint, household chemicals, electronics and things that shouldn't go into waste and it keeps people from either putting that sort of thing in the trash or dumping it into sewage. 

Most people kind of load up their stuff and haul it to the dropoff and fill out the paperwork.   My spouse treats it as an almost religious reverent event with enormous effort spent tagging each thing with labels, ensuring all the documentation is read and a strange sense of self worth in showing up at the hazardous waste collection with the "lithium ion batteries" separate from the "conventional beatteries".

I get that there are protocols and certainly when you get there, the volunteers and hazardous waste companies have paperwork.   She takes an almost deep sense of sacrifice and pride at having read every page of the fine print and documenting everything.   There is nothing wrong with her doing this.  It's just that most people in the long line of cars basically show up with a couple of cans of paint, fill in the paperwork and dump the stuff as directed by the volunteers.   The whole system is designed to let you get rid of the stuff in an orderly way.   But she not only loves the process of following the rules exactly, she gets angry if someone else does not or even more angry if I am not invested in the details of the rules.

I could go on but it's more of the same.  Her concern is not the process or the end goal, it's whether or not people are truly motivated by the rules.  You should not just follow the rules, you should embrace them because the rules are there to be valued and worshipped.

[escapingman]

STBX is the same and the control she is putting on me is also put on her. She can live it completely if she lost a receipt herself.

For the bit about the recycling, STBX can collect all things carefully and make sure that everything goes to the correct recycling, but then if she lose her temper she can throw it all in the general waste and this would include biohazard stuff.