Getting more and more toxic

[p123]

I dunno if everyone else gets this. Dont know if its a result of being alone and sitting in his own selfishness but hes gettting worse.
Its almost as if his attitude and behaviour is going backwards in time. I think we're back in the 1950s with him now.

Hes racist, sexist, homophobic for a start. Some of the things he says just defy belief to be honest. Its almost as if he does it to wind me up....

There was a TV program on the other day. This guy, Richard Parkes, is semi-famous. Played rugby professionally, played for Wales. Then retired through injury. Since hes raised million for charity - he hold the world record for fastest climbs of every highest mountain on each continent in the world. Hes got/had mental health issues and is a spokesman for that/raises money etc. Quite a guy to be honest.

So of course, Dad watches the program which was all about his mental health during lockdown etc. I just couldnt believe Dad. He said "Did you see the program on TV? I thought Richard Parkes was more of a man, not a little girl. He needs to man up a bit and get out and something with his life and not feel so sorry for myself".

OMG. I could not even speak..... Richard Parkes is an amazing guy. And Dad is criticising him! OMG I can't believe it. All I could think of is "Dad What have YOU ever done?"

[Boat Babe]

Yup, there's the elderly PD for you. Delightful eh?

My mother comes out with similar crap, especially if it's someone that I might find interesting or admirable. She will have an opposite and usually virulent reaction. So I don't tell her anything these days. Makes for really, really boring conversations but it's better than Queen/Witch lite (her raging fires have abated with age) or Full Metal Waif.

You could give these people Heaven on a plate and they'd still moan.

[p123]

Its just the total outdated attitude that gets me. It is as if the 1950s are back with him....

And hes just so offensive with some of the things he says. But he doesnt care. Then wonders why people avoid him.

[Andeza]

P123, what year was your dad born? (Don't actually answer that here necessarily, just hold onto it in your head) Because his emotional maturity is going to be that of a 2 to 14 year old. THAT is the year he is stuck in and will never leave. My uBPDm is stuck in about 1969 for instance. And yes, she has the emotional maturity of a 11-13 year old. So my uBPDm is stuck in the era of civil rights and desegregation with an immature, and honestly racist, view.

Also the older they get, the worse it gets. It's all downhill from here.

[Liketheducks]

My mom does something similar.   She was a pretty talented visual artist in high school.   Even secured a scholarship to a prestigious art college.....and would have gone if she did get pregnant with me.    I can't go with her to art shows or festivals.   Every piece is.....I can do that better.....or really, they want money for this?....   It is all SO negative.   I get that it comes from a place of jealousy.   She really regrets not living that dream.      I feel sorry for her.....but I'm not going with her down that path.

[Sneezy]

You could give these people Heaven on a plate and they'd still moan.

Ha - this reminds me of something my DH always says about my mom.  Mom claims to be very religious and DH always says that the Lord himself could descend from heaven to visit with my mom, and she'd complain that he was wearing the wrong color robe. 

They complain all the time.  They don't like change.  They don't like to be reminded that there are people who are more successful or talented or happy out there in the world.  They will never acknowledge that they have it pretty darn good.  They can never be wrong about anything.  And so if they were wrong about people of color or gay people many years ago, well, they certainly aren't going to admit that now and so they double-down.

[p123]

P123, what year was your dad born? (Don't actually answer that here necessarily, just hold onto it in your head) Because his emotional maturity is going to be that of a 2 to 14 year old. THAT is the year he is stuck in and will never leave. My uBPDm is stuck in about 1969 for instance. And yes, she has the emotional maturity of a 11-13 year old. So my uBPDm is stuck in the era of civil rights and desegregation with an immature, and honestly racist, view.

Also the older they get, the worse it gets. It's all downhill from here.

1934 he was born.......

But I think, you watch TV, you see whats going on in the world. Yet he still sees fit to say that being gay is a sin because its in the bible, and that non-white people arent as clever as white people. Then he just does not notice that it causes offence.

Hes impossible to argue with too. I try to ignore him but then he latches on and wont let it go trying to get ME to see and have the same views as him!

I just wonder what planet he lives on there days

[losingmyself]

Yes, totally agree.
Sometimes when FIL is going off on one of his rants about -well, anything inappropriate- I study his behavior and think -is he getting worse, or just more brave to say out loud the things he's always believed?
My question always is why does he think I want to hear this crap?? Does he think I'm going to agree with him?? Or is his attitude that he can say whatever he wants. I don't know, but I've been trying to find ways to curb this behavior, at least around my ears.
When he asked me for the hundredth time if my son 'shares' his room mate's wife, I said "I think that's a pretty rude thing to say"
I don't know why, but I do think it's getting worse.
He does say the same things, p123. My FIL is 80

[Call Me Cordelia]

Some of the things he says just defy belief to be honest. Its almost as if he does it to wind me up....

That's where my money is. In my experience, the N will take on whatever belief happens to suit his purposes at the time. It suits your father's purposes for you to be wound up and emotionally involved with him. Like other people they have greater or lesser awareness of doing this. Sometimes it's just their weak sense of self trying to pass for real. Check out "mirroring" under Common Behaviors. My MiL was a pro at this. She would even mimic someone's accent along with parroting their opinions, and then do the same to someone else with contradicting views, all without any hint of having contradicting themselves or apparent insincerity to the casual observer. It's amazing. But for us scapegoats, I have become an anti-mirror, such that any belief or opinion I have is automatically WRONG and must be contradicted at any and every opportunity. 

For people like your dad and my folks, deeply and sincerely held moral or spiritual beliefs just aren't there in my opinion. There simply isn't the necessary maturity. One wouldn't expect it if a twelve year old. Stubbornness, sure, but he believes that because that's how he wants the world to be. Black and white, easily understood, with himself as pontiff (always putting you down in some way) and conveniently inherently superior according to his worldview. And if the scapegoat can be induced to argue over it, so much the better for him. Because you are by definition wrong and therefore validating him.

What would be really interesting is if your brother happened to agree with you on certain of his signature issues to harp on about. Not that you have to subject yourself to such idle investigations. What your father thinks simply is not that important.

[square]

One thing I've noticed with the Ns I know isthey seem to seek out very simplified understandings of how things "work" - very childish and over-simple ideas.

They include ideas of how all men are and all women are (with no nuance or individuality), how all X race are, and every other group.

Seems related maybe to black and white thinking, very simplified, no gray, just RIGHT WAY and WRONG WAY without any real understanding of how people and the world really work.

The N I was closest to seemed to use this line of thinking to identify threats (and "safe" or "good" people). Despite being very intelligent, he had highly childish ideas like people with certain zodiac signs (surprise, his zodiac) being better.

It seems to me that part of NPD is a perception issue, and sometimes they are baffled at how the world works and can't figure it out. I wonder if Ns hold tightly to simple concepts like "women should _____" to try to make sense of things they cannot really grasp, through some brain deficit, and certainly they like the concepts that advantage them.

[Hilltop]

P123 that would be really irritating.  It is hard to know if he says these things to you because you get upset by them or if they are his actual views on things.  As you said he likes to dismiss the work you do and is quite obvious about it, if he knows this offends you, it may simply be a similar pattern of behaviour, saying something to upset you.

He was born in 1934 and his views will be pretty firmly set in by this stage.  It would be interesting to know if his parents held these beliefs and he is simply parroting it back, not realising he has not ever questioned those beliefs.  When he was born people's ideas were so different, the world was different.  It was maybe what he was told and what he knew, he grew up believing this to be the truth.

He has his own ideas, opinions, preferences and they are all his own.  They are not yours and not a reflection of you.  You cannot change his opinions so that it is more comfortable for you, just like he cannot change your opinion to make it more comfortable for him.  So what if next time you saw him you simply responded with "I guess I just don't see it that way".  Then change the subject.  Say it will little to no emotion.  If he wants to continue just say "I don't think we are going to agree on this and that's ok.  Did you see the game the other night?"

If you really look at what he is saying its really silly.  He is implying that white people are smarter than coloured people, ok so he thinks intelligence is somehow related to skin colour which is ridiculous.  It's like him saying the sky is purple, you know it's silly and not true and you would simply shrug it off because it is so silly.  When he says stuff that is so obviously silly and you know it's not true why give it any thought at all.  If other people are avoiding him because of this, it's something he has to recognise and work on, no one else can do that for him.

I get his opinions give offense and he is rude but this is his problem to fix if he wants to.  This is what I am doing with my parents and for me it helps.  I guess it's about accepting other people as they are, seeing them as who they are rather than wanting them to be different.  I don't have to agree with them but it's just seeing them as themselves.  The three C's help, we can't control it, change it or cure it.

[GentleSoul]

Is likely he is baiting you to get a reaction. 

He will say whatever it takes to get you to react.

You can stop him by Grey Rocking/Medium Chilling him.  Do not feed the sharks!   

[p123]

Yes, totally agree.
Sometimes when FIL is going off on one of his rants about -well, anything inappropriate- I study his behavior and think -is he getting worse, or just more brave to say out loud the things he's always believed?
My question always is why does he think I want to hear this crap?? Does he think I'm going to agree with him?? Or is his attitude that he can say whatever he wants. I don't know, but I've been trying to find ways to curb this behavior, at least around my ears.
When he asked me for the hundredth time if my son 'shares' his room mate's wife, I said "I think that's a pretty rude thing to say"
I don't know why, but I do think it's getting worse.
He does say the same things, p123. My FIL is 80

Oh yes deffo getting worse. I dont take him out in public any more because his rudeness knows no bounds.

Last time I took him out for a meal he completely ignored what I said, then was badgering the waitress saying "Right Love, Im not waiting here all day for my food, can you get a move on?"

I had to apologise afterwards. Not the first time....

[p123]

P123 that would be really irritating.  It is hard to know if he says these things to you because you get upset by them or if they are his actual views on things.  As you said he likes to dismiss the work you do and is quite obvious about it, if he knows this offends you, it may simply be a similar pattern of behaviour, saying something to upset you.

He was born in 1934 and his views will be pretty firmly set in by this stage.  It would be interesting to know if his parents held these beliefs and he is simply parroting it back, not realising he has not ever questioned those beliefs.  When he was born people's ideas were so different, the world was different.  It was maybe what he was told and what he knew, he grew up believing this to be the truth.

He has his own ideas, opinions, preferences and they are all his own.  They are not yours and not a reflection of you.  You cannot change his opinions so that it is more comfortable for you, just like he cannot change your opinion to make it more comfortable for him.  So what if next time you saw him you simply responded with "I guess I just don't see it that way".  Then change the subject.  Say it will little to no emotion.  If he wants to continue just say "I don't think we are going to agree on this and that's ok.  Did you see the game the other night?"

If you really look at what he is saying its really silly.  He is implying that white people are smarter than coloured people, ok so he thinks intelligence is somehow related to skin colour which is ridiculous.  It's like him saying the sky is purple, you know it's silly and not true and you would simply shrug it off because it is so silly.  When he says stuff that is so obviously silly and you know it's not true why give it any thought at all.  If other people are avoiding him because of this, it's something he has to recognise and work on, no one else can do that for him.

I get his opinions give offense and he is rude but this is his problem to fix if he wants to.  This is what I am doing with my parents and for me it helps.  I guess it's about accepting other people as they are, seeing them as who they are rather than wanting them to be different.  I don't have to agree with them but it's just seeing them as themselves.  The three C's help, we can't control it, change it or cure it.

Yes I see what you mean.... But I always think - you've lived on this planet long enough to understand a few things and maybe have actually learned a few things.....

Ignoring it is one thing of course. I've stopped taking him out because of how he does it in public. None of my family want anything to do with him now (and I don't blame him) and I know a lot of people avoid him now because of how he is.

Its tough sometimes though. I'm sure I've shared this story before, we were talking about a friend of mine. Dad knew him from when I was young. Hes gay and married to a man (so what!!!) he works as a child psychologist. Dad of course, had to come out with "OMG, how can they let perverts like that near children!" Very hard to ignore and SO offensive. This is a friend of mine here.....

I no longer take him to hospital appointments - I refuse. The one time, the consultant was non-white, better English than me lol. Of course, Dad kept looking at the Nurse in the corner saying "Whats he saying?". It was embarrasing. Even worse when he loudly proclaimed "Shouldn't let the b@ggers work here, let alone live here if they can't speak English".
Afterwards I remember telling how rude he was, how inappropriate but he couldn't care less - "well if they don't like it they can go home"

Best of all Dad proclaims to be a Christian. Makes me laugh. Treat people like dirt but you're a Christian.... Jeez.

[p123]

Is likely he is baiting you to get a reaction. 

He will say whatever it takes to get you to react.

You can stop him by Grey Rocking/Medium Chilling him.  Do not feed the sharks!   

Don't think it is. His attitude is "I'm old I can say what I want"

[GentleSoul]

Is likely he is baiting you to get a reaction. 

He will say whatever it takes to get you to react.

You can stop him by Grey Rocking/Medium Chilling him.  Do not feed the sharks!   

Don't think it is. His attitude is "I'm old I can say what I want"

Fair enough.