Please don't leave me I hate you

[guitarman]

I have just listened to the Femsplainers podcast with the counsellor Ann Silvers. She has written a book called "Abuse of Men by Women".

The link to the podcast on the Ann Silvers page no longer works but you can find the Femsplainers podcasts on Apple Podcasts and maybe elsewhere.

Ann Silvers section starts at 9.40
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/when-women-abuse-men-its-real-so-why-dont-we-talk-about-it/

There are many other resources you maybe interested in on the page

https://annsilvers.com/blogs/news/ann-silvers-interviews-about-abusive-women-and-abused-men

[escapingman]

Thanks everyone,

I am coming to the realisation that I will have no other option than going full throttle. But I need out before something bad happens, it's like living in a pressure cooker. STBX even started alternating GC and SG between who is who several times a day, no one knows what the current score is other than utter chaos. When I am away, STBX talks badly about me to the girls turning them against me. When I am home she tries to set me up in front of them making me look like the bad guy. The pressure is building and I am not sure when I will explode, I have no authority with the girls as they run to STBX as soon as I am not agreeing what they say or do.

As my therapist said, this is domestic abuse and I must try to see it. She told me to stop protecting STBX's feelings and prioritise my own instead. I get it, I so do, but it has been so hard. I have been trying to please STBX for so long I can hardly remember myself. I was away for a few days, could do whatever I wanted. What did I do? I did what I can't do at home. I laid in the bed watching TV, sat in the chair looking out the window in complete peace. Ordered take away and bought a bottle of wine and just enjoyed my own company with no risk of interference. I should have gone to the hotel bar, but I could not face talking to anyone. I was reasonable refreshed when coming back home, but that only lasted hours.

I need to push the separation now, I can see how the different parts are coming together. Hopefully I will ride this storm in not to long time.

[feralcat]

Can I chip in here, and say that - rather than see going , as a man , to a DV support group embarrassing and weak(?) somehow - it's actually strong and empowering. You'd be a great role model for other men in your situation. Support groups work best if they represent the gender balance in society.
I'm sure you'd be welcome, and could help the other members by providing an alternative angle. There may already be men there ?
Change in perception only begins to happen if brave pioneers (that's you, btw !) take a deep breath and step over the parapet.

[square]

EM, I hope you can find a way to seperate/get away asap without losing any legal position.

You're in a real nightmare. There is a limit to what I can take with my H, and it's not nearly what you're dealing with.

[guitarman]

I can relate to what you posted about.

It's OK to do whatever you want when you are away from your home. Do whatever it is you need to do to relax and unwind. Doing nothing is taking care of yourself. It is self care. It is your body and mind's way of taking care of you.

Be gentle with yourself. You are doing the best that you can.

It is important to look after yourself.

When we are experiencing trauma, fear and abuse our bodies produce adrenaline. That induces the automatic fight, flight, freeze, fawn or faint response. We need long periods of peace without any perceived dangers to recover our equilibrium.

We may go onto develop CPTSD after exposure to danger over long periods of time. It's a natural response to trauma.

We may find it difficult to think straight. We may find it difficult to make decisions, our memory maybe impaired and our appetite maybe affected. We may have negative thinking, constant ruminating and thoughts of impending doom.

On several occasions I have collapsed when being subjected to loud raging abuse from my uBPD/NPD sister. Thankfully I didn't live with her and I noticed that it would take me at least three days away from her to recover from an abusive episode when my body and thinking felt at all back to normal again.

There is part of the brain called the amygdala. It doesn't recognise the difference between a real threat and a perceived threat of danger. It can't tell the difference so even just thinking about a past traumatic incident can produce a fear response. No wonder you find it difficult to relax completely.

I haven't been in contact with my uBPD/NPD for over two years and still have flashbacks of traumatic events even when I just think about what I have experienced.

By practicing Mindfulness guided meditations I have learnt that thoughts are not facts. They are just thoughts. That helps me to remain calm and to relax.

I practice Mindfulness guided meditations every day. It's how I take care of myself.

Going to support groups has been the best way to help myself. It was daunting to go to my first meeting but I am so glad that I went now. I have been attending either in person or online ever since. I really miss not attending if I can't go. They have become a regular part of my life now. The other members have become my friends. We all help and support each other through some very difficult times. I recognise that I need ongoing help and support.

By helping others we help ourselves.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[SonofThunder]

EM, my apologies if this has already been stated/asked:  I have a friend who's BPDwife was inflicting domestic abuse in the home and with his useable evidence, he was able (in the USA) to have the court remove her from the home with a restraining order in place to protect the teen children and him while they proceeded in divorce. 

1. Does the country you live, allow for restraining orders therefore the abuser being removed from the home.

2. Do you already have court-permissible evidence that domestic abuse is occurring in your home?

3. If #1 is a yes, are you able to call the police during the next outrageous domestic abuse event(s) and get the report(s) on legal record(s), so that your wife can be legally removed from the home for the emotional protection from the domestic abuse?

4. If during these abuse events, you begin openly recording the scene on your phone (so she is visually aware you are recording) and then when you have gathered enough video evidence to validate your concern,  call the police and state (on the court-permissible recorded emergency call) specifically that 'domestic abuse' is occurring in the home now, and show the police the phone footage when they arrive?   

SoT   

[escapingman]

Guitarman, thank you so much for your support. I used to work away a lot, I use to joke about going away was my weekends (never did I realise how true that was). I then changed projects and started to be home much more, that is when things started to go from bad to worse. In the end I started inventing work trips and events I needed/wanted to attend to get my rest. Then when covid hit and there was no way to get out at all it became unbearable and with no rest at all everything just escalated and then ended up where I am now. Now I am back at taking regular breaks again, without them I am close to collapse. It generally seems to take 2-3 days before I can get back to some normal thinking again. Evenings and weekends are terrible as STBX is available and need her supply, she chase after me alternating between being nice and horrible so I never know which version will turn up. I am already planning my next trip away this weekend, but it can't continue like this, I need a complete break from her and so do the kids. But to plan for the break I need rest and to able to think.

SoT, thank you!

1) Yes
2) Yes - but my solicitor says it is incredible difficult to get someone removed from the home. There are lighter orders that is easier to obtain, such as banning her from speaking badly to me etc, but that will still leave her in the house with me. Although, if she breaks that order and I can prove it she can be arrested.
3) She is becoming more aware and most of her abuse is now directed through one of the children. I cannot prove what she is doing behind the scenes and how she is turning my daughter against me. Other than that, I am not sure she will erupt into a complete rage anytime soon. She would have been warned by her solicitor as we have warned her we will take action if the abuse continue. Having said that, she think she is right and justified in her abuse so I wouldn't be surprised if she lost it - but I don't to be involved in that.
4) Doing this would end up in a physical assault, might be worth it but I rather not.

Thanks so much for all support, all support from everyone is helping.

[SonofThunder]

EM, you wrote #2: "There are lighter orders that is easier to obtain, such as banning her from speaking badly to me etc, but that will still leave her in the house with me. Although, if she breaks that order and I can prove it she can be arrested."

These people who create laws like that have NO CLUE when it comes to boundaries.  Not only is the #2 order useless to prevent verbal abuse in the home, but to prove it, potentially triggers her into #4, which you desire to avoid. So imo, #2 is dead in the water. 

My friend fyi, had his wife removed not on physical abuse, but harsh, hurtful verbal abuse toward his teen kids in the home.  Any chance of you recording verbal abuse toward your kid(s) and then privately (to prevent #4) calling the police right then, showing them the video when they unexpectedly arrive?

I would suspect your wife wont physically attempt anything if she knows the police have arrived all of a sudden.  My thinking is that the police and courts may move to protective action (removing her from home w/restraining order) faster for your kids benefit than yours, but i have no experience other than my friends experience.

SoT

[escapingman]

Just got a big amount of sadness. One of the girls did something today that wasn't really appropriate, the thought to speak to STBX went through my mind and I realise I can't speak to her. She could react in any inappropriate way and therefore not reliable. That left with so much sadness that I don't have another adult to talk about things with.

[hhaw]

You're coming to the place where you accept the rules reality of raising children with a PD or continue resisting reality and suffering in the desire to change it, IME.

Acceptance isn't easy but leads to more peace, responsiveness and ability to act with clarity, IME.

[guitarman]

user - It depends what country you are in and what you are looking for.

There is extensive information under the "Resources" section of this website under "Emergency" and "Links".

I would also suggest getting in contact with your local carers centre. They may have a mental health carers support group.

You could also try national and local mental health charities and organisations also.

The Frazzled Café have free emotional support groups every day online via Zoom for anyone in the world (over 18). They are based in the UK so are operating during the day or evening, UK time.

https://www.frazzledcafe.org/

You could Google "men domestic violence support" if that is what you are needing.

There are national domestic violence support phone lines set up in many countries.

In the UK there aren't many specific BPD/EUPD carers support groups but there are some, often run by local branches of national mental health charities such as Rethink Mental Illness www.rethink.org

I hope this helps you user and anyone else.

[escapingman]

Don't worry about that user,  I have a bigger fish to fry than a companion in war.

[escapingman]

She almost got me, my guard was down and she got me into some talks. For a second I thought about how nice things could be and almost considered hugging her. Then I had to shake myself and realise its just a con. I managed and survived. But it's so hard living with her.

[Poison Ivy]

EscapingMan, I think it's normal for people who don't like confrontations (you, me, many people on this website) to want to make cohabitation as tolerable as possible. It can be problematic when the other person interprets the polite behavior as a sign that you want to stay in the marriage. But if being nice is part of who you are, it's difficult to not be that way or even to be indifferent to the other person.

[guitarman]

This is the cognitive dissonance. At one moment the person can be so loving and kind the next so full of raging anger and hate.

You have to be aware all the time of what might happen next. It can be so disconcerting. You can be taken in and start to trust them only to be hurt yet again. Then you criticise yourself for being so foolish, vulnerable and caring.

There will be times when you see the person you first knew who is calm and loving but you know that person will not be around for long.

My uBPD/NPD sister could be so loving and kind to strangers. I often thought why can't she be like that to her own family behind closed doors? I never knew who the real person was. Was she the kind, loving person or the person so full of rage and hate? The truth I concluded was that she was both at the same time and chose which persona she used depending on who she was with. Rarely did the raging person emerge with a stranger. So she could control her behaviour. It seems she knew and had insight into her abusive behaviour after all. Her abuse was deliberate and targeted.

I still don't fully understand her behaviour. I probably never will.

What matters most is my reaction. That is what I have control over. When we build our self esteem we can begin to detach and not feel responsible for how others behave. We become indifferent to how others try to abuse us. We remain calm.  Their power and control don't work on us.

Perhaps you are gradually becoming more indifferent to how your wife behaves.

I have learnt not to do "idiot compassion" any more where I am the idiot. I put my needs first.

I practice loving kindness Mindfulness meditations. There are many on YouTube to follow. They have really helped me to give myself self compassion.

"May I be happy
May I be healthy
May I be free of suffering
May I be free of mental anxiety
May I live in peace
May my life be blessed with ease"

If we let ourselves have self compassion we then can spread it out to others but it begins from within.

We calmly honour our self, our self respect and our dignity.

I will not let myself be abused any more. I care too much about myself to let that happen. I put my needs first. It is not selfish it is survival.

I don't know if this all makes sense. I'm trying to make sense of it all myself. I've lived decades trying to make sense of all the abusive behaviour I've witnessed by someone I'm supposed to care about.

I've been awake most of the night reliving past traumas. I often have nightmares and disturbed sleep.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[escapingman]

user, there are 3 parallel processes - The divorce itself, the finances and custody. The divorce is more or less on track and I am waiting for dates, this is the easy bit as all I will do is apply for it to be final. However that should not be done before the other 2 processes are done. We are in the initial stages of discussing the finances, we will probably be able to come up with a suggestion in the coming weeks, if we both agree then that's done. But I cannot see STBX accepting 50/50 so this could drag on and drag on, and in the end if she never agree it has to go to court for them to decide. This could take months/years. We haven't started talking about the custody yet, again, this could probably either take days or go all the way to court depending on if we agree. As I am contemplating going for full custody this will be the biggie and will take time. I might settle for 50/50 to get it sorted quick as I suspect the court will rule that or even less for me. But my next step is to get the house valued by estate agents, that is not easy when the person I live with doesn't want the house to be sold.

Poison, it breaks my hearth to MC, it's just not me. But it is a must to stay sane.

Guitarman, thanks for your support. I have seen through STBX and if it wasn't for the kids I would have been long gone by now. STBX is now creating all her drama through the children. Maybe I can build a case based on this as SoT suggest. I am really struggling now as GC is clearly bullying SG and then when she goes to far SG violently defends herself using physical violence. I don't agree with SG doing it but I know where she is coming from, and when SG does it GC goes crying to STBX and they both join forces against GC. Unless I come down on SG they shout at me for approving the violence, if I come down on SG they both stand behind me shouting at SG making it impossible for me to try to tell the kids right from wrong. Both kids are wrong at what they do, but it has all been initiated by STBX wit hall her siding with GC and back chatting about me and SG.

I am going to have a good think about what to do next, but I might need to move out and take SG with me for her protection. But I really don't want to leave GC behind as that would be detrimental to her. I am just so lost in what to do and following all the protocols seems so hard.

[escapingman]

I think STBX might be close to shot herself in the foot something royal. After the fight between the girls this morning, she is suggesting to GC that they should report SG to the police. I am actually lost for words this time, the "war" between the girls have been fuelled by STBX for months on end where the pair of them has bullied SG. I wonder if this could be the start of STBX complete meltdown and end up in her being being sectioned or whatever. She clearly has lost the plot and cannot see what's real and not.

[guitarman]

What a terrible position to be in trying to look after your children and protecting them from further harm and trauma.

Your wife knows exactly how to provoke your children to get them on her side. You of course need to stay calm and not get caught up in the escalating emotions. The drama is designed to provoke you into anger which will then be used as evidence by your wife against you. You have to be so careful about what you say and do. Accidents can happen and people can get hurt. I know.

My uBPD/NPD sister provoked family members into anger and violence to get what she wanted. She wanted to be the victim. So please be so careful.

My uBPD/NPD sister used to get her children pitted against their father. She wanted them on her side. If you weren't her friend you were her enemy. It was the black or white thinking. I can remember there was a lot of shouting and screaming.

I know of a person in the UK who was in a similar position as you. He got 50-50 custody of his children but they eventually decided to stay with him full time when they were a bit older. I'm not sure at what age they were but the court took account of their views and didn't intervene to return them to their mother. They preferred to stay with their father rather than their unstable, abusive, chaotic mother.

I'm not sure about what the regulations are regarding at what age children can legally decide for themselves or how old they have to be to have their views taken into consideration. It also depends how they have been manipulated by your wife as well, of course.

I'm just trying to give you some hope that things can change in your favour in the future as the children get older.

Hopefully the family court will see what a stable influence you will be in their lives.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[escapingman]

Thanks guitarman, I have decided I am going away for a few days to avoid exactly what you are saying. If they provoke me by bullying SG it will only be a matter of time before I will lose it. I believe they are kinder to SG when I am not around, or maybe it is more that SG are trying to please more to not be abused. It's encouraging what you are writing and I really hope I can get at least 50% to start with. I think legally children can't chose where to live until they are 16 or 17, but I am not sure how much their wishes are listened to before that. However, I am sure GC would be manipulated enough to say she wants to live with her mum whatever she really wants.

[hhaw]

Much of the battle is managing to keep calm and resist drawing attention to yourself as THE problem, IME.

The PDs provoke us then point and lie and pretend they're bathe victim.

It's a pretty consistent strategy as far as I can tell.