Please don't leave me I hate you

[escapingman]

The subject pretty much sums up where I am at the moment. Mentally this is hard, but it's getting easier as I can see through her attempts. She keep trying to tell me all good she has done and how I can't leave her, then when she doesn't get her way she hurles some abuse at me and stirms off. Then she comes back trying again, and again, and again..... Now she thinks I should be nice to her and engage as she has agreed to the divorce and done what asked to do.... I can see it, in her mind the divorce is just some paper exercise and she fully expects us to continue living together post divorce.

My solicitor got a new solicitor helping with my case, she is very good knowing the law but doesn't seem to understand my situation. I feel very uneasy to follow some of her advice as it would seriously get STBX into fighting mode. I have also been told I can't move out as I risk custody, not feeling good about this but if that's at risk I have to stay for now. I have to continue going away on short respite trips, but it's not moving me forward and only provide me with a couple of days rest that is undone within minutes coning back home.

The girls are really suffering now, GC has become her caretaker and refuse yo leave the house without her mum. SG on the other side can't stand her mum and tries to leave the house for any reason to get away.

I am getting there. I am making a plan. I am building my case.

Thanks for all support.

[SonofThunder]

The subject pretty much sums up where I am at the moment. Mentally this is hard, but it's getting easier as I can see through her attempts. She keep trying to tell me all good she has done and how I can't leave her, then when she doesn't get her way she hurles some abuse at me and stirms off. Then she comes back trying again, and again, and again..... Now she thinks I should be nice to her and engage as she has agreed to the divorce and done what asked to do.... I can see it, in her mind the divorce is just some paper exercise and she fully expects us to continue living together post divorce.

My solicitor got a new solicitor helping with my case, she is very good knowing the law but doesn't seem to understand my situation. I feel very uneasy to follow some of her advice as it would seriously get STBX into fighting mode. I have also been told I can't move out as I risk custody, not feeling good about this but if that's at risk I have to stay for now. I have to continue going away on short respite trips, but it's not moving me forward and only provide me with a couple of days rest that is undone within minutes coning back home.

The girls are really suffering now, GC has become her caretaker and refuse yo leave the house without her mum. SG on the other side can't stand her mum and tries to leave the house for any reason to get away.

I am getting there. I am making a plan. I am building my case.

Thanks for all support.

EM, I wish you continued forward movement with the solicitor(s).  Truth and the law can be your friend as you face the blizzard in the truth war. 

SoT

[guitarman]

It's such a surreal and bizarre situation that other people don't really understand unless they've been in a similar situation themselves.

I'm still trying to understand the decades of abusive behaviour that I have witnessed with my uBPD/NPD sister.

I learnt about the term "cognitive dissonance" which seemed to sum up all the behaviours that don't make sense to me. For example saying loving and kind things yet also verbally and emotionally abusing people. My conclusion: If it hurts it isn't love.

Your solicitor is a legal professional but they are not a psychologist or mental health professional. You are very wise not to provoke your wife. It could be very dangerous, as you well know. Perhaps you should ask your solicitor to watch several of Dr Ramani's YouTube videos about narcissistic abuse to educate themselves better about what you are experiencing.

It seems intolerable, unjust and dangerous that you should have to remain in an abusive household because of your fear about losing custody of your children. What if it were a woman in the same situation with an abusive husband? It doesn't seem at all right.

Keep doing what you are doing. Keep calm even when all your buttons are being pushed. Remember to not feed the narcissistic supply.

We are all here to support you.

You are not alone.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[escapingman]

I really struggle to even say hello to her, and if I don't I get it in the neck from both STBX and GC. How can I treat someone who has been so abusive to me and still is with any ki d of respect? She has turned GC against me, undermines me at every opportunity, pretends all will continue as before and trying to take me to the cleaner. I have been away for a few days now and feel a bit better, but still får from OK.  I am going to have to instruct the solicitor of next steps, I have listened to the advice but I cannot proceed with some of it as this would threaten STBX's control and I am afraid things could get worse. STBX is trying to get me to support her financially after the divorce, she has better earning potential than me and a better degree, but she doesn't want to work. She wants her cake and eat it. Solicitor wants me to tell her what jobs she should apply for, and subsequently which houses are suitable for her and what her budget should be. She would erupt if I do that. STBX thinks all should stay the same, she doesn't want to leave the house, she doesn't want a job with any responsibility,  she just want to be looked after and spoilt.

I will try to get the message through to the solicitor and see what to do. I am so tired of this.

[square]

Honestly, even if PD wasn't involved, that is weird to suggest you advise stbx of appropriate jobs and living situations. She's an adult. You're not her career counselor. It's up to her what she'll do for income post divorce. I don't understand how the solicitor thinks that's appropriate.

[Associate of Daniel]

I agree. That's inappropriate.

That's exactly what my UNPD exH did to me after he left.  Even told me what email address to get.

So wrong.

AOD

[escapingman]

Honestly, even if PD wasn't involved, that is weird to suggest you advise stbx of appropriate jobs and living situations. She's an adult. You're not her career counselor. It's up to her what she'll do for income post divorce. I don't understand how the solicitor thinks that's appropriate.

I feel really not happy about it. It's a new employee of my solicitor and I will tell them this is not on. I am not sure if this is how it normally works but I am not doing it. The rage from her if I tell her will be at another level.

[escapingman]

It's about the finances and if I need to pay her post divorce, I get that but can't do it. I will see what they say, but it's my solicitors new solicitor so might need to take it with her.

[Poison Ivy]

I have a slightly different take on this. I think it's appropriate for one spouse to say, "I think my spouse is able to work." If the other spouse disagrees, then the first spouse could say, "In the past, my spouse has done X, Y, and Z. Therefore, I think my spouse can again work in this or another type of job."

Similarly, I think it's appropriate for one spouse to say, "I think that each of us will be able to afford our own housing after the divorce."

It is my impression that in the U.S., at least, courts don't want to grant a divorce if by doing so, the result will be that one party no longer has a source of income or a place to live.

[escapingman]

Polisonger Ivy, this is exactly what it is about. To tell her what job she should be able to get to not rely on my income. But I know she will kick off if I tell her that. Its not about controlling her, just to tell her what she is capable to do and should do.

[Poison Ivy]

This is so stressful. My former husband went through long periods of unemployment while we were married, and I was very concerned that I would be required to pay him maintenance (the word used in my state for alimony). Fortunately, he agreed to not ask for maintenance (he said it was a matter of pride; whoo-hoo, I'm glad that feeling finally kicked in for him!).

[square]

I still don't see why telling the stbx comes into play. You tell the judge, not the stbx, if an agreement can't be made regarding maintenance.

[Poison Ivy]

I agree, square. A party who is represented by a lawyer should communicate facts and opinions about the other party's  ability to work, possible living arrangements, sources of income, and so on to their own lawyer, so that the their own lawyer can decide whether and how to use these facts and opinions in the case.

[blunk]

I agree with square, you wouldn't have to tell the stbx. If it were me, I would frame it as a research project.

-Stbx has xyz degree.
-This degree would allow her to work in the following field(s), including any previous positions/experience.
-These jobs have a salary range of $ to $.
-Based on this salary range she could reasonably afford a xxx sq/ft home in our area. (There are calculators available based on a % of annual earnings.)

In most cases the court is looking to ensure that the person is not simply choosing to remain unemployed or under-employed. Any spousal or child support is ultimately up to the judge. However, this would prevent your wife from claiming that she is unqualified, and that the only job she could get wouldn't pay enough for her to support herself.

[escapingman]

Thanks all, I needed your views on this. I guess I am still so worried about her reactions, but of course you are right. She is currently very under-employed, she has got a top degree from one of the best universities in the world and is working on national minimum wage. She bragged to GC that she never told her employer about her degree when she applied for the job and still hasn't told them in fear of being promoted. About the houses, I should actually quite easy provide a list of suitable houses for her as I would be looking for the same (all within budget for both of us if using the proceeds from selling our current home).

I am really struggling with MC and GR now, I hate being this cold person. I just want to show my emotions and be kind to people around me, but if I do that she will immediately feed off it and attack me. But whilst doing this, GC is not speaking to me as she is siding with STBX and blames me for not engaging in conversations and activities with STBX (which STBX happily tell her every time). I need out to be able to be myself again, but this could be months and months away if I understood the new solicitor correct. If STBX digs her heals in it could even be year(s). I don't think I can manage days never mind weeks of this. I am going to speak to my T in a short while and hope I can get some advice on what to do, but I am not sure what she can do.

[Associate of Daniel]

I wonder if the therapist could document, maybe write a letter to the solicitor, how your current living situation is affecting your physical and mental health; and stating that she thinks you need to get out to protect your health.

The therapist could perhaps say that your concern for the children has her believing that it would be better for them if your wife were to leave, rather than you.

The only thing is that the therapist should provide tangible proof for such a document to be taken into consideration.  I'm not sure how that could be done.

AOD

[escapingman]

Therapist confirmed to me that it is domestic abuse what STBX is doing, and I haven't even told her to worst bits. I was asked to start documenting everything and also everything GC does. She also told me about a local domestic abuse group, not sure I manage that though. I still feel a lot of shame to have allowed STBX to control me in the way she has done, I am worried everyone would laugh at me if I told them the truth. I know, I shouldn't but I still do. Therapist told me what if the genders were the other way round, if I was the female, would I feel the same. I don't know.

I think this will end up ugly, very ugly. I am being pushed further and further into a corner and the only way forward will soon be to have STBX arrested or removed, the alternative I cannot think of as I am drowning here.

[oak_tree]

EM, just want to add my voice of support to you here. Your strength and perseverance are pretty astounding. My SO was in a similar situation, and he took the abuse for 15+ years, and actually, she kicked him out eventually. He left without speaking to a lawyer first, and as a result, the parenting setup is not good for anyone, including his ex (since she just relies on the care from her kids instead of picking herself up). Like your ex, she is underemployed, and pretending that it's impossible for her to work at all. 

The gender question is interesting - I've often come to the conclusion that my SO would likely have full custody of his kids if the genders were reversed. The ex is abusive to him and to the kids, she is financially irresponsible, she is immature, and has shown time and again that she won't change. The good news is that it seems (from a lot of what I'm reading), most kids will see through it. SO's kids already see her for what she really is. Your GC will too - you have already seen those glimpses. 

I don't have any advice, just know that you're not alone.

OT

[hhaw]

EM:

Yes, it's going to be a very ugly divorce.  There's nothing else to be done, but mitigate the harm, time, resources and trauma to all.

Allowing stbx to experience the consequences of her actions might seem like a tragedy, but it's simply the place where you decide current conditions aren't working for you and the children any longer.

It MIGHT be the place where stbx gets help for whatever PD us vexing her life, children and relationships.  It MIGHT be the place where stbx feels enough discomfort to allow help in.

It's not up to you and I'm not saying you don't have choices and power to choose.
I'm saying pretending you're controlling anything about the stbx by sheltering stbx from logical consequences is expensive and costs you time, money, credibility and your precious mental health and the that if your children.

I'll repeat myself......
STBX held accountable for her actions will likely lead to the best possible outcome for you and your children. 

What happens to stbx isn't up to you and it's better to accept that....make friends with it.... internalize it......change the unconscious beliefs you may hold about your fears, obligations and guilt/shame holding you hostage still.

Picture what it would mean to put it all down and turn away from it....and toward healthy, uplifting things thoughts, words, people and choices...just the best choices, even if they feel bad, worse and devastating for a while...... they're still better and best options to choose over the worst of the worst and they're yours, EM.

Step into your power.
Picture yourself processing this pain and grief....moving through it instead of stuck IN it....powerless, vulnerable and helpless is what happens to people who can't or won't act, but you CAN act.

You have choices.

Do what you can then put this burden on the shelf for a while....BE present with your girls and model as consistent  self care as you can.....the healthier you are.....
The better headspace u occupy.....
The more needs you're meeting for yourself.....
The more self compassion you extend yourself.....
The more time you plan and ACT to protect and care for your very bright future will lower the volume of the chaos and despair stbx willfully inflicts on you and your shared children, IME.

Stbx won't make this easy..... she'll likely sacrifice everything and everyone to change your mind OR punish you for leaving so wrap your head around holding the stbx accountable for everything while extending compassion and kind words for her always.

That's advice I've spelled out and will continue to give until you're out of this, EM...and you will get out.

I promise.

Doing uncomfortable things....making the hardest choices.....going against your desire to save and heal will lead to better outcomes for you and the children.

You can't save the stbx.

You might as well save yourself and the girls, if you can.

I'm very proud of you, EM.  I know you can do this.  You ARE doing this.

It doesn't matter how you ended up in an abusive relationship.  What matters is you're done and acting to free yourself and build something joyful..... it's yours to build.....but you have to plan and act, IME.

Guilt and shame can't control you if you drop judgment and give yourself the care and kindness you'd extend to a friend.

Let it all go, EM.  Grab hold if solutions and quiet you mind as you can.

This too shall pass.

[guitarman]

"Abuse thrives in the darkness. We all need to shine a light on it wherever it occurs."

I have attended many support groups over many years. You will not be laughed at you will be believed and supported because other people there will be going through similar but different situations as yourself.

We need to have courage, speak up and tell our stories of abuse.  We need to help raise awareness about Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and learn how targets of abuse can cope better.

We are not alone.