The gloom

[Bettyrubble]

Hi.

First of all I'm so glad to have found a place where I may not come across as neurotic, hysterical or crazy!

I have been slowly and painfully coming Out of the FOG for the last year and am now teetering on the precipice of knowing I have to leave but not having the guts to do it.

One of the things that is hard to handle from my stbx is the gloom. The pervasive all encompassing negativity that he so often exudes. Me and the kids are so used to it that it's just become normal.

He is constantly stressed by work (runs his own business) has a chronic lifetime sleep problem so is always tired and often has at least one physical ailment.  He has a bad back and is overweight too. The gloom is there for all to see though - huffing, sighing, face of doom.

Before coming Out of the FOG I would try all sorts of things to try and help and would walk on eggshells feeling terrible. I have tried to suggest soooooo many things that might help over the years from therapy to the very basic (and surely logical) route of simply speaking to a GP about his sleep.  I even agreed and apologised when he told me I had to accept at least some responsibility for his sleep and weight issues.... apparently I should have done more (such a common refrain )

I know now that his physical and mental well-being are his responsibility not mine. It almost feels like his refusal to actually seek any help or tackle these things properly are deliberate- as he gets to be the perpetual victim. He can also then keep accusing me of not supporting him.

I felt so sad that we have been subjected to such prolonged negativity.

Obviously he will then have periods where he's full of enthusiasm and get up and go and it all switches.

Ugh. I'm so tired

[Bettyrubble]

Just want to add in case I sound mean that I care very much about his health and his feelings. It's just hard to be regularly berated for not caring, not helping, not being aware of his struggles or not saying the right thing. I have tried so hard to be sympathetic and to help and empathise.

[notrightinthehead]

Gosh, other than making it your full time task to watch him exercise and Keep a low calorie diet - how can you be responsible for his excess weight? Surely he is an adult with full mental capacities? Don't buy into this nonsense. His weight, his diet, his exercise are not your responsibility. You have no control over that. How can something you have no control over be your responsibility ? 
Next time he complains about his weight answer something along the lines " I am sorry you feel you carry too much weight." and leave it at that. If he tells you, you should do something about that, say " You think I should do something about your weight? Only you can do that."  and talk about something else. Do not get involved in such futile arguments. Evaluate who's problem it really is and stick to your own problems.

[SeaBreeze]

Bettyrubble,

Welcome! As I always say, I'm sorry to hear yet another person needs this site, but glad you found us! 

I totally hear you and feel you. I believe my uNPDh not only has an undiagnosed PD, but I think he has an undiagnosed mental health disorder as well. I, myself, struggle with depression, anxiety, and CPTSD, so I try to offer him empathy. But H does not want empathy, just compliance, otherwise he might have to admit to being "flawed".

A big part of my journey Out of the FOG is learning this: we can still care for another person and show support, without being codependent and trying to fix other people's problems. I also had to work on my own control issues (wanting everyone
in my life happy and everything around me perfect, goshdarnit!!).

Truly, others have to want to help themselves, while we nons need to take care of our own health and healing. This site is definitely a good start!

[SonofThunder]

Hi Betty,

So sorry you deal with this but your mind understands it perfectly.  Your mind also weighs the reality of PD thought behaviors, but balanced with love (desiring what is most beneficial).  I commend you for both.   

You wrote:

"I know now that his physical and mental well-being are his responsibility not mine. It almost feels like his refusal to actually seek any help or tackle these things properly are deliberate- as he gets to be the perpetual victim. He can also then keep accusing me of not supporting him."

+1 

Classic Karpman drama triangle as my PD's (my experiences with two) love to camp on the victim side, because it frees them from responsibility, lays responsibility on the target (Betty) and then sometimes, the PD plays the rescuer side long enough to get the target 'doing' in hopes of improvement.  Its a classic dance which always has the PD landing squarely on 'victim'.  Good for you in recognizing and naming it as victimization 👍👊.   

SoT

[Bettyrubble]

>notright

You're absolutely right. Me accepting blame for his weight/sleep issues was a while back now. I knooooow now that I can't do it for him and that's it's not my responsibility

>seabreeze

Thanks for the kind words. Definitely working on this stuff. It's a frustrating situation- I'm a relentless researcher- a firm believer that the info/insights/solutions are out there and have made all sorts of radical changes to my life to make myself better. But he just can't/won't. He regularly says I need to eat better, sleep earlier, do more exercise. Before I figured out the likelihood of him being bpd i calmly and cautiously suggested he may have chronic stress and in which case it would be so hard to break the cycle of high cortisol/insomnia/inability to lose weight. I thought he may be pleased with the idea that it wasn't his fault! I said maybe it's a bigger issue that you or I can fix but if you get some help even just with the sleep bit first it could have a profound effect on how you feel! He read the research said "yep, this sounds like me" then just went on to get angry that I hadn't figured it out sooner or done more to help. And then did nothing. Aaaaaaargh!

>SoT

Wise words and yes I  now able to see the dynamics and mechanisms clearly. For a long time he just went from persecutor to victim and I was victim rescuer.

Before figuring out the pd bit about 8 months ago I reached breaking point and attempted to finally be super honest and late out all the issues in our relationship (mine too!) and naively thought that would enable us to see things clearly and "fix" things. But what it did was just wound and already angry and wounded bear. So now I'm frequently cast in the perpetrator role and he's way more frequently the victim.

This week he's been saying his chest feels tight and his heart is beating weird. He's had his heart checked out multiple times. I knooooow it's stress and anxiety- he agreed too. But any attempts to empathise are met with anger and frustration because I should know that he doesn't have time to do any relaxation or speak to a friend or see a doctor! What does he need to feel better? PRAISE! Yep if only I praised him more and gave him more physical affection he'd be sorted.

It's now so plain to see that his solution to almost every problem lies with me. It's something I need to do more/differently

[SonofThunder]

Hi Betty,

You wrote:

"What does he need to feel better? PRAISE! Yep if only I praised him more and gave him more physical affection he'd be sorted.   It's now so plain to see that his solution to almost every problem lies with me. It's something I need to do more/differently "

There it is; that short span where the PD is the 'rescuer' on the drama triangle by giving the target a 'to-do list'.  Its a classic lose/lose for the target and that short 'rescuer' mode in the drama triangle is actually a 'hoover' conundrum on the IDD cycle. 

If the target does the prescribed to-do, they have been hoovered back into caretaking behaviors and the IDD cycle starts over again by the PD person's  'idealization' praise of the target for compliance.  When the situation unravels once again in the IDD cycle, then the 'devaluation' in the IDD begins as the PD dances over to 'persecutor' on the triangle, followed by victim, and so on.  1. Wash 2. Rinse 3. Repeat

When the target finally gets tired of this repetitive cycle and stops complying, the PD turns up the volume/intensity in the devalue stage of the IDD cycle (persecutor side of the drama triangle) and then if nothing occurs, will move into the last D of discard, with jabs of devalue for good measure. 

The only solution (prior to separation) i found bearable was not for me to 'match/mirror the discard', but to move to a mindset of 'indifference'.  Unemotional indifference.  I wish you the very best. 

SoT