Inheritance

[Family biz & fog]

Inheritance issues with PD siblings: Have not posted in a few years while working out lawsuits to divide jointiy owned property filed by lawyer siblings. Aggggh. Finally came to agreement a year ago but have only had 1 year to enjoy running my part of the business  myself & being out of business with siblings before thrust into business with them again because of my mother's death and small but complicated inheritance. How have others dealt with the incredible entitlement PD siblings with NPD can display rather than fairly dividing assets as well as their emotions in dividing and copying historical photos and mementos ?

[NarcKiddo]

I haven't yet had to deal with that situation but I am not looking forward to it (save that it will mean I am finally rid of the narc mother - every cloud has a silver lining).

And your siblings are lawyers, I see. Lawyers can be incredibly petty and difficult at the best of times (I know, I am one!) so I do feel for you.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

For me, after going NC with my sibling resulted in so much anger in my family my dad notified me by email last year that he was having his lawyer disinherit me unless "my attitude improved". I never changed anything, so it is possible he wrote me out. I guess the way I handle it is just that I accept this will be one more loss. I cannot interact with these dynamics, so I know I have no agreeable alternative.       
             
I feel like my family has used this as a bit of a weapon against me. I was the executor of their will, but dad told me he changed that to my sibling. Dad also said my sibling is his trustee successor. So even though my dad's wishes would be legally documented, my sibling can still choose to delay or stir drama just for the entertainment of making my life difficult. I sometimes cannot believe my dad set me up to be on the receiving end of such manipulation, but I see he facilitated it even if indirectly. He always wanted to be such a role model and so principled, but now the reality is just sad. 

[donutmoonpanda]

I haven't dealt with this directly, but I watched my NPD father rob his own siblings of what would have been their inheritance. All I can say is: A person with NPD will take it all for themself if they can. No matter how much money it is, how unfair it looks, how much money they already have, even if it would be a burden to them to take on this wealth or equity, they will take it all if they can. They can promise to share it, divide it later, give some to their own heirs, etc. They won't. They will take it all and it will remain with them until they die (because alas they can't take it with them).

[Jolie40]

as well as their emotions in dividing and copying historical photos and mementos ?

no one has seen the will except sibling-in-charge
one parent died & other ended up in long term care so house was sold

I asked for one photo on wall but was told wall photos were contested items
sibling-in-charged took almost all furniture (saying they're going to sell), all the wall photos, and even the china even though it was willed to one sister

apparently, jewelry was divided for all siblings but once again they took it to their house even though they could have passed it out to each sibling

sibling-in-charge & SIL became extremely hostile to everyone during the whole selling of the house

[GentleSoul]

Urgh sorry to hear about this going on.

For sure, Inheritance is in the PD Handbook of what they do.

My PD mum pulled all sorts of rubbish with her Will.

Weaponised it to the nth degree. 

When she did actually die, us (adult) kids over turned it.  Which was very easy indeed.  Made it fair and took out the PD nastiness.   Everything was spilt equally between all the adult kids.  She would disinherit us one at time on like rota depending who was setting the strongest boundaries with her at the time.   

I think the firm that made her Will did good business from her.  PD's like to change their Will often.

I appreciate this is different in your case as the PD is sibling.  So I really just wanted to empathize and say that Wills are a huge PD weapon they use.

[bloomie]

Family biz & fog -

How have others dealt with the incredible entitlement PD siblings with NPD can display rather than fairly dividing assets as well as their emotions in dividing and copying historical photos and mementos ?

We have started with the understanding that we are dealing with someone who refuses to communicate clearly and in a timely manner, who is incapable of cooperation, and is not guided by any observable sense of fairness and equity. And who wants EVERYTHING and ANYTHING with a perceived value to it.

In our own case, dealing with a combo platter of HPD/NPD behaviors this moment has been talked about for decades and it is their big moment.  The SHOW is underway, they are center stage, and prolonging it and stirring up as much chaos and confusion as possible is this person's history in settling another family member's estate.

Documents and photos can be scanned and shared. If possible, and if you have access to them, do it now. In terms of momentos, furniture, jewelry - dear things there are only one of - expect that everything will go with your siblings as in our experience, they come in hot and fill their vehicles.

We stepped completely away from all of dividing up and refused to play. We showed zero interest in anything. What ended up happening for us was at the end of all of the nonsense and endless days sorting through they left with all of their goodies and we were left with a huge mess and were cleaning up and out anything remaining.  Two things were left no one wanted. They were 'broken', but for us easily fixed.

They sit in my home in full working order and are treasures to us. Another granddaughter found in a discarded box, the original wedding set of her grandmother's that needed repair. She and her fiancé had it repaired and she proudly wears the ring on her finger.

What I am trying to say is the best thing we did, and will do in the round we are facing in the near future, is to choose our battles very carefully and disengage from all of the rest of it. And you never know what small treasure may be there for you in the discard pile. 

Wishing you peace and wisdom as you weather this. I am very sorry for your loss that can easily get lost in the dysfunction and greed that can assert itself in these times.

[Danie]

I was closer to my grandmother than my mom-because she left us. My grandmother left her grandchildren money and stuff (bypassing my mom)  and my NPD mom intervened and blew it all sky-high! My mom got her share, but she resented that everything didn't go through her first.

She took items that were willed to grandchildren and sold them off so we didn't get them. She actually "sold" me a couple of my things and kept the money for herself and not the estate. She filled up her own house with everything she could grab so nobody else would get it! Now she's still stuck with it and can't get rid of it.

She took, from my grandmother's house, the documents for 3 gravesites and has been trying to sell them!! They were in my grandparent's family plot (a total of 6 graves). They were meant for my aunt, uncle and 2 cousins. My aunt passed in the 80's and was buried there leaving 3 gravesites. When my uncle died last year my cousins tried to acquire the gravesites back from my mom and she wouldn't give or sell them. I think they worked something out with the cemetery and buried him on top or with his deceased wife. My mom is still trying to sell them. She has her "free" one in the veteran's cemetery.

This has to be the epitome of NPD behavior over property and inheritances-someone stealing from the "estate"   Graves!

[Danie]

I know I really didn't answer your question on how I dealt with it, so I guess it was really confusing and upsetting! She was impossible to talk to (still is).

I know there is a time-period from when the person dies and when the will is distributed that an inventory is done. That's when my mom took all the stuff. She actually got a hold of my grandma's checking way before that (as her caregiver) and took most of her cash.

[BerneseMtnMom]

The best thing I did was insist on a third-party mediation.   My NPD sister and I found a mediator that was willing to provide services without an attorney present for each of us.  She tried to use the mediation to trick me, she used three friends in her efforts, I saw through her efforts. I walked away from the mediation with an agreement in my hand, took a month to think about it, hired an attorney to represent me and have not spoken to her directly since.  That was almost 9 months ago.  She sends e-mails to my attorney, and then we decide how to respond, and he responds on my behalf.

That was my final realization that she could not participate with honesty in a formal legal proceeding.  It goes without saying that she could not participate in normal, everyday conversations with honesty.  Life is much more simple now. 

[GentleSoul]

Oh I had forgotten, my PD alcoholic father stole the Trust Fund left to myself, brother and sister by grandparents which we were each meant to get when we reached the age of 18.

We only found out decades later when a cousin was chatting and asked what I had spent my Trust Fund on.  My reply was - what Trust Fund?

My father was dead by then.   These people have no shame at all.  They just do not care.

Knowing my father, he would have drunk it all away.

[M0009803]

The best thing I did was insist on a third-party mediation.   My NPD sister and I found a mediator that was willing to provide services without an attorney present for each of us.  She tried to use the mediation to trick me, she used three friends in her efforts, I saw through her efforts. I walked away from the mediation with an agreement in my hand, took a month to think about it, hired an attorney to represent me and have not spoken to her directly since.  That was almost 9 months ago.  She sends e-mails to my attorney, and then we decide how to respond, and he responds on my behalf.

That was my final realization that she could not participate with honesty in a formal legal proceeding.  It goes without saying that she could not participate in normal, everyday conversations with honesty.  Life is much more simple now.

This is what I ended up doing as well.   

It makes things much more simple and effective when they have to respond & interact only with a legal professional.

They tend to be on much better behavior vs when you deal with them personally.

There is of course an opportunity cost to all of this (lawyer fees), but in the long-run I do think its the only way to deal with PD folks when it comes to inheritance discussions.

[sunshine702]

Personality Disorders weaponize will and inheritance.  My Narc mom and enabling dad talk about this constantly.   I see it all going to GC brother source Grandchild H.  That is fine. 
The funny thing is her father cut her out of the will and she was pissed but it is likely to repeat. 

I don't need it so I honestly don't care and will not dance on a string for the chance.   Uhug I feel for you lawyers too.  That sounds like hell.   My advice plan NOW someone you can talk to. You are going to need it.  Support system. Therapist. Trusted friend. A good non judging listener. 

[Boat Babe]

Yeah, uBPDmum is a waif. I get "What will happen to this furniture when I'm gone?" questions a lot. She constantly reminds me that I am her sole heir.  Once, and this is telling, we were having a row and she mentioned the inheritance as a form of blackmail. I told her straight that I didn't give a fuck about the money and just wanted a bit of sanity instead and she was absolutely gobsmacked. And panicked because she realized that she couldn't use it to bind me to her.  Meh!

[justducky]

Yeah, my enabling and possibly covert N mother started doing some of this after uPD father died. She dialed up her waifiness and engaged in much triangulation with enSis and her sister (my aunt). She didn't know what to do when I'd respond to her attempts at manipulation regarding inheritance with "It's your house/money. Do with it as you please." With each attempt I backed off more.

The irony of it all is that she didn't have much of an estate: a small nest egg, a car, and a modest, paid-off house.

[workinprogress2018]

Oh goodness, it's so good to know that I am not alone! My uNPD sibling is treating the shared process of administering our uBPDM's small estate like a contentious divorce, not a sad but necessary task when a loved one has passed away.

I have realised how much I isolate when things are difficult for me, so I am going out of my comfort zone to share what's happening in the hopes that I may receive some encouraging words.

Some days I feel like I don't know how I will cope with it for much longer as she snaps and snarls and tries to project feelings of pressure, fear and mistrust. All her own stuff and out of touch with reality. She's always been mean and vicious around money despite having plenty, and has an attitude and language that screams 'Don't even THINK about ripping me off!! I will destroy you!!!" which reveals the extent of her fear and mistrust bordering on paranoia. I don't care about money. She knows this. Honestly, if I said 'Hey, just take the whole lot, my gift to you!' she'd probably STILL have a go at me thinking it was some kind of elaborate trick!!

I realise now how much she tells on herself. She doesn't reply to messages about the estate then stamps her foot about not being kept informed by others and not hearing anything... So I just try to remember it's not personal, she attacks almost everyone, from the receptionist in the doctor's office to the attorney to the store assistant to the work colleague they've decided has it in for them. The world is out to get her, apparently, and nobody can be trusted, not even her own sister. She's very damaged (as am I, but differently) and it's sad for her to feel so unsafe in the world, yet it doesn't excuse what she does to try and regulate herself, which is to make others feel afraid, too.

She can trigger responses very easily, we must share the same wounds (uBPD Mother and uNPD Father) so no wonder it works so well when she projects hers onto me. I am working on healing those wounds and it shows me where I have work to do to heal if she says something that causes a response. So I tell myself that she's helping me to see where my wounds are so that I can heal.

The irrationality and endless circling and confused communications are hilarious, especially as she's a lawyer. She literally has fights for a living. She's not interested in win/win or reaching a solution/resolution for anything, just wants to try and contradict everything just because.  If you raise her behaviours with her, she has a knee-jerk childlike response, so if you said 'I'm finding you very aggressive', she would say 'No you are'. Same response to anything you say. Incapable of taking responsibility for anything.

So they are not rational and giving up on expecting them to be releases a lot of energy. I now accept her as she is. Ultimately, she's becoming more and more unwell. She treated our Mother like an emotional punching bag and a dumpster for her feelings, so she must be feeling the loss of that. In addition she isn't tolerating her feelings or anyone else's. She stormed off when I cried at our Mother's graveside at the funeral during her commital. On top of this, my refusal to get into debates and discuss anything other than facts and in a calm and reasonable manner is driving her to worse and worse behaviour. I'm not giving her the fight she's spoiling for and there isn't anything to fight about that I can see. An extinction burst I am hoping. Just have to hold out long enough to get the administration complete.

I completely agree with you bloomie, "We have started with the understanding that we are dealing with someone who refuses to communicate clearly and in a timely manner, who is incapable of cooperation, and is not guided by any observable sense of fairness and equity. And who wants EVERYTHING and ANYTHING with a perceived value to it."

So can anyone tell me, should I bother to state that I am hurt, upset, etc? It's exactly what she wants me to feel so I wonder is it a reward for her to hear me say it? It tells them that it worked and they got the response they wanted? It's fuel for her to argue? Or just keep communicating in plain facts and nothing else at all? I find it confusing.

I am ashamed of her behaviour and my poor Mother must be turning in her grave. I have been shocked by her behaviour but really shouldn't have been    I no longer tolerate this kind of behaviour from anyone else and won't tolerate it from her - shared genetic material is not a good enough reason for me.  Once the estate has been wound up and distributed I am likely to be NC.

[KiriG65]

This feels so familiar.  I am executor of my mother's estate.  Sister and I are co-beneficiaries, but sister is not cooperating.  Would not provide court with acknowledgment that she had received cash distribution, and now will not make plans to come divide the personal property.  Not sure what the point is except to make me wait, make me ask (again), & make extra work (for me, never for her).  I guess any or all  of that IS the point.  Sad thing is. I always thought we were so close.  Now I'm looking back over all those years and realizing that "close" only meant that SHE was OK; that there were few - if any - times that she didn't get more from any interaction than she gave.  So I've lost a mother AND a sister, and until the estate is settled I can't fully grieve either.

[workinprogress2018]

Oh Kiri I feel this. They want us to run around in circles playing games we'll never win. I accept that my sister has been playing these games every day of her life for decades. If I decided to 'play her at her own game' I truly know now that I couldn't win. They've done their 10,000 hours - they really are Expert at this nonsense. It's like imagining that I could win a tennis match against Serena Williams just because I really wanted to. It's futile. I have accepted that I cannot 'win' and am no longer naively thinking that we can reach amicable solutions to the problems she creates. She doesn't want amicable solutions. They live for the fighting. They enjoy it, or they wouldn't do it, conflict could be so easily avoided and things could be done nicely, and fairly and with minimal upset for all. That question of 'But why??? do you cause so much drama?? why do you want everything to be difficult?? it makes no sense!!!' I think would be answered by my sister with 'I want to, it's fun to see you get yourself in an emotional state and question your own sanity, for some reason it pleases me, and actually I don't care for you so it really doesn't matter to me how you feel or what you think!'

I feel like I am losing my family too, as she has young children also, whom I adore, yet I cannot be a role model for them who tolerates being treated with contempt and abuse. I should have stepped away from them all many many years ago but didn't. I don't see the children often enough to be any kind of mitigating influence so I think modelling for them that it's best to stay away from anyone who abuses you, including family, is the best thing I can teach them. I think both their parents are uNPD so they have slim chance of making it out of there without a PD themselves. I also don't want to hang around for that - being treated abusively by another two people? No thanks. I will always be there for them if they come to me with a good heart when they're old enough to see me of their own volition.

But oh, the grief from all of this. It makes you look at them all so differently in the cold light of day. I was telling myself that 'my sister can be kind' - actually no, about once every three years she'll buy you a present, only it's something she loves so she has decided you should have one too... The only time I hear from her is when she wants something - to vent, or babysitting... Not kind at all. I have accepted that the sweet little girl grew into something else a long time ago. Even before her teens. It's hard. We have no aunts or uncles, etc as both parents were only children, so this is the last of my immediate family. It feels like they're all being lost at once, which in a way they are.

I can't wait to build my new life. I plan to use my share of inheritance to invest in myself. Provide myself with the care that my parents never did.  I have a chronic, exhaustive illness which I know will soon go into remission once I am out the other side.

I hope you have great plans for yourself Kiri, once you're out the other side?

[KiriG65]

Oh my, Workinprogress!  I certainly do get the 10,000 hours thing!  No way in the world I'll ever catch up!     But I'm fortunate that the imbalance in our relationship didn't make itself manifest until sister and I were older.  We had a lot of good times earlier in our lives, and I have solid relationships with her kids.  Hers with mine?  No, not so much, which makes me sad for all of them.  She'll never know how fun - and how profound - it can be to be an aunt; to love and support your nieces and nephews without the judgments and expectations that often dog the parent/child relationship.  And my kids will never have the kind of relationship I had with my own aunt - calls every week, vacations together, sharing our cigarettes on the porch at night (yes, I'm that old!), being heard and loved without the personal stake that parents often have.  I'm so very sorry that you have to be dealing with these losses now, but you CAN be there for your sister's kids.  I don't know how old they are, but a card on their birthday, a call or text when you see something they're interested in (for mine it's birds, Wordle, Anime, and ??), and just keeping on as if sister's stuff isn't relevant.  Because it isn't.  That's the power of the personality disordered:  we find ourselves agreeing that they are the most important thing; that our own behavior has to conform to their messed-up expectations.  We've grown up with that; it's the water we swim in, and by the time we realize how F'd up that is, we have decades of trauma to overcome.  I think we'll get there, but the grief, the anger, & the frustration I feel as I slog through this mess is a pretty high price to pay for loving someone who cannot love themselves.  For her kids, however, you might have the opportunity to open a little door to normal.  They will be lucky to have you in their lives!