Confusing behavior from SIL

[Danie]

Wow, Cordelia. I need to re-read about F O G. Will write back.

[bloomie]

Hi Danie! I am so sorry things have devolved to this degree. How painful to be excluded in this way and to have your DH be, at the very least, tone deaf to how inappropriate this is and how painful.

I am not in exactly the same situation, but similar enough in terms of an investment group with family members on DH's side that includes a sil with toxic, undermining, dismissive maneuvers toward me who has systematically damaged my relationships with other family members. In our case, there is no way out of this group right now, hoping for a way out in the next few years. Sil's behaviors are really painful and have greatly impacted our ability to continuing having loving relationships with nieces and nephews and bil.

It seems like your sil is doing all she can to remove the one person she may see as one who will hold reasonable expectations of honesty and trust in co owing this property.

I am pretty convinced, from experience, that there are those who are unable and/or unwilling to cooperate and negotiate with integrity and reliability. People who cannot Co - anything. Can't co-own, can't co-operate, can't co-llaborate. And... while we may be able to clearly see this, and admit the risks of being involved in anything meaningful with such a person, not everyone else sees it or finds it a problem like we may. Because the status quo suits them well enough.

It came down to this for me... I am the only one who can figure out what works and does not work for me in my own situation. And I am the only one who can communicate that clearly, calmly, without accusation to my DH. I am not giving up my marriage for this. No stinkin' way! It is one part of a very hard won, good life that we share and I refuse to allow the toxic behaviors of others to destroy that.

Does it hurt? Yes. Is it destabilizing at times? Yes. Is it unjust? Yes. Is it ugly and undeserved invalidation and labeling of me as 'the problem' in the family? Yes. Those are emotions and I can deal with my emotions and process them and then I can make some good decisions from a centered, grounded place.

You have shared previously this cabin is a place you love. Can you get back there? Can you leave all communication and interactions about the cabin in your DH's hands and see it as a place you share with him only? Go, float, ignore paddle boards and such and just find your way back to joy in this place?
Can you drop the rope on the lies and such and leave it on your DH to figure out and experience on his own?

Or is it a time to step away from it completely and let it be something DH shares with his brother and you move on to create a new place for the two of you that is all your own?

I have chosen to step completely out of DH's family stuff. I don't ask about it, I don't get involved. Even though the investment group will surely impact me and my adult children, I remove myself from all of the drama and angst and the maneuverings. That means that DH has to deal with it all without a buffer, without someone doing the legwork to point to questionable practices and drama bound, untrustworthy communication. If he gets taken advantage of, and he most likely will to be honest, that is an opportunity to learn and grow for him.  If and when it becomes my problem, and if something were to happen to my DH it would, I will solve that problem in a way that cares for myself and my family through mediators and legal means.

Does that mean we are not invited to certain family events? Or that DH is and I am not? Yep. Is DH strategic in what he attends and does not? Yep. Just like you and your DH were when you opted for DH to go spend time with his family after Christmas. That was a very smart and gracious way to handle a truly ugly rejection from sil.

I hope I have given you support because these are things that can suck the joy right out of relationships and season of our lives if we let them. Trusting you will find your way back to peace and joy in all of this!

[Danie]

Hi Bloomie! Thanks for your support. I was physically ill last week from my last experience there. That's waiting too long to do something about it --that's not taking care of myself.

I do fear my DH will pick that situation over me. This group of people that own this old resort are from a small town and purchased as a group then condo'd it out. Now, I kind of see it as a cult. One person from the group follows his parent's footsteps because they did this a few generations ago. I don't know what I'm supposed to do to fit in. Either way I agree my DH should support me. What ever major family dysfunction lurks beneath isn't mine to fix.

This week, I am going to do "something"! I have some ideas in the works and some capital as well.

[Danie]

Cordelia, this is so similar and yes you're right I don't want to give up my 31 year marriage either.

I did find another location, nearby, that we could afford. I asked my DH if he would be open to it. He said, "I don't think I could be on the same lake". I have an appointment to look at it in 1 week. It's awesome. Now I am getting wishy-washy feedback from DH. Here's why:  He wants to share with his brother and brother's family. I understand this, I do. I am in no way interfering with their relationship and I think it's great they get along. I'm not so sure it's the healthiest relationship. Like you said Cordelia, my DH may have to figure out on his own that he's being taken.

Also, cabin has quadrupled in price! We purchased it for $58,000.00 and now they're going for at least $200,000.00. If BIL buys us out he will have to come up with $100,000.00. I don't know where he could get that kind of money or loan. I understand that by me pulling out of the arrangement it jeopardizes his ability for him to keep it comfortably,and I bet that's what they'll use on me. Well, my DH has a sum of money he inherited (it's his---not marital money) that he can use to bail out his brother and brother's family.

Unfortunately BIL has focused way too much on money and using us to leverage his purchase and now it's catching up to him. Better for us to get out now, while we can, than let this go on until a new problem arises.

Come to think of it, maybe I don't want to be on the same lake either! BIL will be over wanting DH to fix his boat.

[Danie]

Another summer weekend has come and gone and again we fought over this cabin. My husband went by himself and I stayed home. It's painful and I feel very abandoned. Before he left he said, "I'm going to do everything I can to keep this with my brother". I am in shock, but at least he finally admitted it because it was what I expected.

Now what? I'm not sure.

Cabin is worth $210,000.00 and I'm 1/4 owner. BIL won't pay me $55,000.00 I'm quite sure. Am I'm still married! I'm so screwed. And what H is doing is really, really abusive, I know.

I would like to discuss with H when he gets home, but it always turns into a blowup and I don't want that.

Options: take $55,000.00 out of our joint account. Go to an attorney and force a sale. Wait and see if H will fix it. But I can't wait long.

I should probably go to a real-estate attorney now.

As far as my marriage? I just don't know. My heart is just aching and I wonder what is wrong with him.

[Poison Ivy]

It stinks when family members are more concerned about property and money than about people. (I write from experience; my late father-in-law and my ex-husband did and do this.) You have my sympathy, Danie.

[Danie]

Thank you.

Should I just "not go"?

Force issues more?

Hire a lawyer?

Force a sale?

Take 1/4 money from H?

When we went through this 10 years ago, he said he didn't want to go there without me. I fell for it. I'm not sure how to hold my ground. I don't want to lose my fourth of the money. What would be fair?

[Poison Ivy]

Real estate matters can be very complicated. I suggest that you think about your own financial situation and your goals and then contact a lawyer or a financial planner for guidance.

[Danie]

Good advice Poison Ivy. I'm not going to do anything spontaneously. I think the direction it's going is my husband will own it with his brother and brother's family. They had a crowd there over the 4th of July. 12 people, 475 sq. foot cabin. I like parties too, but I don't think I would do that unless my co-owners agreed or without even telling them. They don't feel they have to say anything. At least this time I took my bed pillows home because I don't know who sleeps in my bed and drools on my pillow.

If I ask for my share I will get a lot of pushback I'm so sure. The whole HOA is all from the same small town and they will get behind BIL.

Honestly, I don't want to take it away from BIL's family, they can't afford it alone or to buy it from us, but they should've been prepared to let us (or me) get out of it.

There are ways, I'm sure they can keep and afford it. My H has some of his own money that he could spend; like help BIL pay off a new mortgage.

[Danie]

So now I'm having anxiety attacks when I think about going to this shared family cabin. My body is telling me there's danger. I spent my last weekend there because a nephew, that we haven't seen for awhile, joined us. It was a good time and we bonded with him. He lost his mom 16 years ago and it was special family time for him too.

My husband wanted to start texting with "enmeshed-BIL" while we were there. I've asked him, in the past, to please refrain from that while we were there. He did respect my boundary. I suggested he write a little list and chat with him later at home when I'm not around.

Meanwhile H and I had created a 2-page document outlining "cabin guidelines" that both families could go by. We explained to BIL and family that this could take place of the meetings SIL refuses to take part in. Actually SIL doesn't even speak to us at all...ever.

It was a very, very simple document. Basic stuff like "clean up after yourself" and "use the Google calenadar". As I predicted, they rejected it. They said we were attacking their children and she called the list "demands".

Doing the document was my last attempt at any chance of me going back there and it bombed.

I'm getting a little more aggressive toward BIL and texted him that he is causing problems in my marriage. I asked him to think about what he is doing. He doesn't understand that, at all. He believes it's okay that he manipulated and tricked us to co-sign his mortgage and to talk bad about me to my husband.

Thirty years ago when BIL was 5 years out of high school and living at home, his mom (my MIL) told me a few times how tired she was of paying his bills. I've heard a few other stories about his nasty treatment of other family members.

Even H is now getting really tired of him and his pushy attempts to control. I think we've nailed him down as a Narcissist. H says, "he can't see things any other way than what works for him". H agrees he has "discarded" me because I serve no purpose for him.

I literally feel I need to "recover" from this. How do I do that?

I'm going cold-turkey on any more discussions or weekends there. How do I still be supportive of my H so he can untangle himself? I love my H, but he is still trying to keep my involved by trying to have another "meeting" with BIL.

I can't handle another meeting; no eye contact, terse angry comments. It is impossible with BIL. He is completely incapable of empathy or compromise.

[Danie]

I am somewhat relieved today because this whole situation has been resolved. Finally, my husband spoke up and said that he actually had given his brother the OK about signing his mortgage 15 years ago! When I ask him why he didn't tell me he said, "I thought you knew". I did not. I had asked both of them several times. Their answer was always "you're not on the promissory note". It was all a loose verbal agreement and something BIL's bank did for him. Either way it was not clear to me. There was still some deception involved when BIL covered up the top half of the document we signed. And, we would've had some consequences (loose and verbal) about what would happen if they defaulted.
BIL has paid off the mortgage and we are off it. Relationships are very damaged. I was left in the dark when BIL and H would talk about it. I felt I had the right to know because I signed it and used a large sum of my inherited money from my grandma for our down payment.
So, I think BIL and H are both at fault for not informing me. I'm not apologizing for my actions - I was angry. I think I just need to not trust my H for one. I still don't understand what he was thinking when I repeatedly asked and complained about how I felt tricked. He's got communication issues I believe, like some ADHD. I think BIL took advantage of that.

[moglow]

I'm glad the mortgage is paid off and that's over, but that's a big betrayal - and he carried it unspoken for 15 years?? I understand wanting to help his brother but your DH had a responsibility to you as well and he let that down in a big way. YOUR financial future and needs were put at risk there - you had a right to know, he an obligation to discuss it with you. My guess is he knew exactly how you'd feel about it and went with "easier to get forgiveness than permission." 

I wouldn't want anything further to do with it - BIL can either buy you out or sell the property, but it doesn't need to be your responsibility on any level going forward. And no, apparently you can't trust your husband with this, history shows you that.

[Danie]

Thanks Moglow.

BIL and H won't sell it, but my sister is a realtor and she said "consider it part of your portfolio, don't go, let them take care of it". So now I wait.

I went to my Credit Union today and changed all my accounts so H doesn't have access anymore. I don't know if he understands he had an obligation to me. He and his brother have an unhealthy relationship - the brother comes to H for stuff, and H never says no, but BIL gives nothing back ever. I think BIL will screw over H too someday.

I'm safe now. It's all good. I hope someone else will learn from this. I pretty much wrote a book.

[moglow]

A good friend has a somewhat similar situation - her father passed away with no will, his home went to her and her two much older brothers. One is autistic and has never lived by himself, the other thinks the world is there to serve and take care of him, now in what appears to be major organ failure. Friend lives in and is renovating the house, her brothers live [always have!] with their mother. They get on spells where they push her to "just sell the house and we'll buy something else" - she's a realtor herself and knows all too well how complicated and expensive that would get, plus she has no desire to live elsewhere. They'll insist sometimes that she buy them out and "they'll take mom's when she's gone" but won't sign any legal paperwork waiving their rights to the property regardless. It's a MESS so she muddles through as best she can until the next demand.

[bloomie]

Oh my goodness, Danie! What a turn of events! The good news is you now know the truth and are out of it other than looking on it as an investment.

I can only imagine the hurt and betrayal you are living with knowing your H and his brother kept you in the dark. Protecting your funds from use without you giving consent is really wise, I am just so sorry you have had to do that.

My hope is that you will be able to find a new getaway that you love and that is not tainted with all of the dysfunction and disrespect that you have endured with all of this.

[Danie]

Thanks for your help and comments. I'm still kind of in shock and mad, at DH! I can't trust him. His family of origin prioritizes money over relationships. I'll never know for sure what went haywire, but I know I was never told even though he wants to argue that he told me.
I like the idea of dreaming for something new and better for myself.

[Cat of the Canals]

I think it's smart to consider the property an investment. If it's already 4x the value you bought it for, might as well let it continue to accumulate value and get your share when it does come time to sell. And in the meantime? Wash your hands of the maintenance and cleaning and stress of keeping up a cabin!

but I know I was never told even though he wants to argue that he told me.

I find it hard to believe that in 15 years, this never came up when discussing the cabin. i.e. "And let's not forget how they tricked us into cosigning!" And he said... nothing? Just let this factual inaccuracy slide? Sorry, but that's majorly fishy to me. He claims he told you all those years ago but then waited a decade and a half before he finally set you straight? That's absurd! And why say nothing in the interim? It would have been so simple to say, "No, honey, you've gotten mixed up. I knew about the cosigning. BIL and I discussed it beforehand."

Methinks he knew you wouldn't be comfortable with it, so he agreed to it behind your back. To avoid the sh!tstorm that would occur if you realized he'd lied to you, he went along with your notion of being tricked so that BIL and SIL would take the heat. And now he's gaslighting you by saying he told you all those years ago.

[Danie]

Hi Cat. I think you're kind of right. I've been thinking about this over and over and we have been talking about it. I asked my H if he "was in on it"? He swears "NO". He has some ADD, so it's not uncommon for him to get some things confused. He has owned, the misinformation to some degree, he said to me "I screwed it up by not telling you and I'm sorry". Also, he has tried to blame ME by saying "you knew". I'm holding my ground...I didn't know. Either way it should have been re-explained because I asked a few times before we signed it, I said: "what are we signing?"

I'm trying to move forward, but he is digging in his heels. He wants us to keep it with BIL and his family. Why? Because BIL cannot afford it alone and needs my H to help with expenses and repairs, but BIL treats me very badly.

I can simply "not go" and consider it an investment in my portfolio. It makes me kind of sad, being without H (for now) but time will reveal if he's trustworthy and on my side instead of caretaking his brother.

Overall, I can't see continuing this. BIL and his wife have said and done a number of nasty things to me. Also, it's been 15 years and their was never a lifetime commitment, so it's time. My H says, "my brother and I won't even have a relationship if we get out of it". I've tried to explain to H, "well then it's not worth it, if all he wants from you is your handyman skills and financial support".

Also, H shouldn't be putting me in the middle of his "family of origin" problems. I feel like I'm just in the middle of some kind of family drama that I have nothing to do with or no influence on. I witnessed BIL being very abusive to their sisters and mother. My H finally admitted to me yesterday about BIL "he isn't kind".

I changed all of my bank account so H no longer has access, but he doesn't know. Not going to tell him it will fuel the fire.

[Danie]

We had a meeting last week with BIL. I didn't want to go but my H talked me into it. I warned him if BIL was rude I was going to leave. I figured it's at least a chance to speak for myself and be a first-hand witness to what's going on.
BIL was very rude. Spoke only to H and when I tried to talk he snapped at me. I tried 2 more times and got the same reaction so I simply said, "I'm not going to be treated like this and walked away".

My H called me back (     ) and when I returned I pulled out all the stops. I tried to dialogue with BIL, but he's not able to really converse with any understanding  -- he clearly thinks he is going to own this cabin outright with his wife and four kids without us. He even said, "I want you to sign a form that gives it to my kids if you die".

I don't know what happened in his life that makes him think he is entitled and why won't someone make it clear to him? Just because my H is his big brother doesn't mean our money is his? He seems to think the bloodline of his siblings entitles him to it. I literally used a lot of my own inherited cash and not marital money to buy it.

I feel like this is too much. Inside I'm feeling broken and I told my husband this could really break me. I've had other traumas to overcome and being treated like this is overwhelmingly painful and confusing. I can just not go and wait it out, but I worry so much BIL will rip us off again and who knows if I can trust H? He talks out of both sides of his mouth.

I've been assured they can't sell it without my signature and permission, but I was fooled once.

[Leonor]

Hi Daniel,

Oh, what an excruciating situation.

I am so sorry that your H has been unable to disentangle himself from his enmeshed family. So hurtful. And I'm sorry that he is still unable to see how that enmeshment hurts you, damages trust and threatens his relationship with you, his life partner. You have been valiant, respectful, supportive and very patient throughout all of this!

We women are so romanticized about marriage that we tend to see it only as a love attachment, rather than a legal and financial partnership. When our emotional wellbeing suffers, we notice it right away and can articulate it clearly. But when our financial wellbeing suffers, we just chalk it up as "what we do for love."

Hogwash! Your H has betrayed you financially by lying to you about property you own together. That's a violation of your trust, but also of your legal agreement as financial partners. Of course it's hurtful. What kind of man jeopardizes the wellbeing and safety of his family, the peace of mind of his wife, to placate someone else? Anyone else?

So I just want to stand right behind you and have your back. Good for you, for protecting your accounts! Good for you, for considering a place of your own! And good for you, for wondering about resources to help you determine what is yours and what is not.

I don't know if it's realistic, given what you've described, to anticipate recovering any of the money that you have invested in this cabin, let alone make a profit on it. I would not spend another dime on a dishrag. Yes, it's a lot of money. But what is your peace of mind worth? What is your freedom worth? Your respect? What are you worth, Danie? Oh my gosh, so much more than 55000.

But you don't have to make all the decisions right now. It's a major step to just allow all of this awareness, and really feel the anger over the injustices you've faced over the years. You are in a powerful place now. You know the truth, and you're not clouded up by FOG.

You'll know what to do when the time comes, and you'll do the right thing for you, whatever that may be.